I knows it's early but Vince Coleman...

[shipps]

What the hell?

 

It's been a week and we have been out on the base paths how many times already? There is some really ugly baseball on the base paths and I'm not sure if it's just because of the transition to the Coleman philosophy or what.

[fathom]

Trying to be aggressive in wrong spots

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

I don't mind caught stealings unless its against a catcher with a gun . Micah needs to learn pitchers pick off moves. He's got a long way to go to really utilize his speed. Eaton makes a lot more baserunning mistakes than most would think he does. That trying to stretch a double into a triple with 2 outs is just wrong on so many levels. Never make the 3rd out at 3rd base is a base running rule because you're already in scoring position and probably will score on any hit because you get the huge jump with 2 outs. You have to trust your team mates behind you to get the job done. It's just Eaton trying to pad his triples stats and it's extremely stupid and selfish. You keep the inning alive and who knows maybe Cabrera hits a HR or gets a walk or hit and Abreu hits one out. It isn't unheard of for teams to have 2 out rallies.

[caulfield12]

I don't mind caught stealings unless its against a catcher with a gun . Micah needs to learn pitchers pick off moves. He's got a long way to go to really utilize his speed. Eaton makes a lot more baserunning mistakes than most would think he does. That trying to stretch a double into a triple with 2 outs is just wrong on so many levels. Never make the 3rd out at 3rd base is a base running rule because you're already in scoring position and probably will score on any hit because you get the huge jump with 2 outs. You have to trust your team mates behind you to get the job done. It's just Eaton trying to pad his triples stats and it's extremely stupid and selfish. You keep the inning alive and who knows maybe Cabrera hits a HR or gets a walk or hit and Abreu hits one out. It isn't unheard of for teams to have 2 out rallies.

 

Yeah, being aggressive and doing something that turns off your veteran teammates (see DBacks accusations)...that's a very fine line there that he's walking.

 

And the style of play (ala Rowand) places him at-risk enough that it's bordering on a negative as well if he can only manage 120-130 GP per season.

 

 

[oldsox]

I don't mind caught stealings unless its against a catcher with a gun . Micah needs to learn pitchers pick off moves. He's got a long way to go to really utilize his speed. Eaton makes a lot more baserunning mistakes than most would think he does. That trying to stretch a double into a triple with 2 outs is just wrong on so many levels. Never make the 3rd out at 3rd base is a base running rule because you're already in scoring position and probably will score on any hit because you get the huge jump with 2 outs. You have to trust your team mates behind you to get the job done. It's just Eaton trying to pad his triples stats and it's extremely stupid and selfish. You keep the inning alive and who knows maybe Cabrera hits a HR or gets a walk or hit and Abreu hits one out. It isn't unheard of for teams to have 2 out rallies.

Right on. Wonder if RV said anything to Eaton...

[Steve9347]

Let's all just take a deep breath and read the 1993 article about Vince lighting off fireworks in the stands yet again.

 

http://articles.latimes.com/1993-08-04/new...1_vince-coleman

 

Thank you for your time.

[Dick Allen]

Hopefully these are just the growing pains in the learning to be aggressive. It's been pretty ugly so far, but sometimes being thrown out teaches you something. The close ones with near perfect relays shouldn't bother anyone. It's when someone is out by 20 feet that is bothersome.

[southsider2k5]

I am sure Vince Coleman told the players to run into outs on the bases...

[shysocks]

Hopefully these are just the growing pains in the learning to be aggressive. It's been pretty ugly so far, but sometimes being thrown out teaches you something. The close ones with near perfect relays shouldn't bother anyone. It's when someone is out by 20 feet that is bothersome.

Yes, I feel like in a vacuum Eaton getting burned at third last night wouldn't have been frustrating at all. Just a speedy guy trying to make a play and the other team made a better play. But since it happened in the same game as LaRoche trying to take third on a grounder hit to the left side, it just inspired a here-we-go-again feeling. Same with Micah out at home on the contact play - it really wasn't his fault but it seemed worse in light of his other mistakes.

 

So far the aggression hasn't paid off but the luck is bound to level off a little. That said, there have still been far too many blunders. It's staggering just how many runners we've lost on the basepaths in one week.

[shipps]

I am sure Vince Coleman told the players to run into outs on the bases...

 

Obviously he didn't but its apparent that he has brought a philosophy of being EXTREMELY aggressive on the base paths no matter what the situation and the team is trying run with it. It may become an issue if they ultimately wind up not believing in it anymore after they keep failing with that mind set. Then they will be in between and all jacked up.

 

I just dont see why they havent eased into the aggressiveness and learned to walk before they go into a full out sprint.

[southsider2k5]

Obviously he didn't but its apparent that he has brought a philosophy of being EXTREMELY aggressive on the base paths no matter what the situation and the team is trying run with it. It may become an issue if they ultimately wind up not believing in it anymore after they keep failing with that mind set. Then they will be in between and all jacked up.

 

I just dont see why they havent eased into the aggressiveness and learned to walk before they go into a full out sprint.

 

Unless players are running through stop signs and without signs, they aren't getting that from Vince Coleman.

[shipps]

Unless players are running through stop signs and without signs, they aren't getting that from Vince Coleman.

 

Yes they might be. Not directly but if he is pushing this overly aggressive mind set from the start of ST and thats what they are always trying to do to be aggressive that is a product of Coleman.

[southsider2k5]

Yes they might be. Not directly but if he is pushing this overly aggressive mind set from the start of ST and thats what they are always trying to do to be aggressive that is a product of Coleman.

 

To me one part of that is really faulty. The Sox have always been an aggressive team on the basepaths.

[shipps]

To me one part of that is really faulty. The Sox have always been an aggressive team on the basepaths.

 

So then why was he brought in again? It wasn't to enlighten the masses with knowledge so they can be smarter at base-running apparently.

[southsider2k5]

So then why was he brought in again? It wasn't to enlighten the masses with knowledge so they can be smarter at base-running apparently.

 

Specific technique and reads are different from overall philosophy on base running.

[Dick Allen]

Specific technique and reads are different from overall philosophy on base running.

When they showed him teaching they were running around the bases, and in his interviews he was definitely preaching aggressiveness. I think, just like with everything else, if you are doing something differently than how you have been doing it the majority of your life, there is an adjustment time.

 

Coleman isn’t in camp just to help with the speed guys, however. He is interested in helping everyone maximize their efforts on the basepaths.

 

“The most important part of the game, the most intricate part of the game, I would say, is baserunning,” Coleman said. “When you can go from first to third, score from second on all base hits and break up double plays … and you don’t have to be fast to be a great baserunner. You just have to be smart, alert and aggressive.”

 

“If you want to be great, it’s a process, day to day,” he said.

 

Edited April 15, 2015 by Dick Allen

[OnlyGillis]

Hopefully he's imparting how to get better leads and better jumps while being smart about it.

[caulfield12]

Yes, I feel like in a vacuum Eaton getting burned at third last night wouldn't have been frustrating at all. Just a speedy guy trying to make a play and the other team made a better play. But since it happened in the same game as LaRoche trying to take third on a grounder hit to the left side, it just inspired a here-we-go-again feeling. Same with Micah out at home on the contact play - it really wasn't his fault but it seemed worse in light of his other mistakes.

 

So far the aggression hasn't paid off but the luck is bound to level off a little. That said, there have still been far too many blunders. It's staggering just how many runners we've lost on the basepaths in one week.

 

 

Another one that sticks out was Abreu getting thrown out at 3B or home to help stop a rally.

 

Then the time Eaton tried to score when down 6-0 and was he out by 20 feet and playfully clowned the ball and glove off the catcher, etc.

 

Micah's problems all over the place (not unexpected, right Balta?)

 

 

[LDF]

Hopefully he's imparting how to get better leads and better jumps while being smart about it.

 

you brought up an interesting point. i remember when my cuz were sCrubs fans and sometimes when we were over, we watch the game.

 

Andre Dawson was with the team and he would go thru this whole regiment when he was on first. he would call time, walk out and measure his supposed lead and dig a foot rivets where he was going to be.

 

the point is, this was a great intimating move for the other team to watch. those little battles add to the game. some one who who can intimate a team with a simple thing like that.

 

 

[RockRaines]

While we are criticizing it, does anyone KNOW the Vince Coleman philosophy?

[caulfield12]

While we are criticizing it, does anyone KNOW the Vince Coleman philosophy?

 

Sure.

http://m.mlb.com/cws/video/topic/67608260/...ining/?c_id=cws

[Dick Allen]

While we are criticizing it, does anyone KNOW the Vince Coleman philosophy?

Be really aggressive. He said in spring training he knew why Eaton had only 15 SB. Said it was fear. He thinks guys get afraid after they are picked off or caught stealing.

[shipps]

While we are criticizing it, does anyone KNOW the Vince Coleman philosophy?

 

Top of the page. Dick Allen put some quotes of his.

 

I am sure there isnt a Coleman manuscript of base running out there but you get the sense from people that are around the team and around Coleman is that he is extremely aggressive and always wants them to take the extra base. Always wants them to be the aggressor and never play conservative.

[RockRaines]

Top of the page. Dick Allen put some quotes of his.

 

I am sure there isnt a Coleman manuscript of base running out there but you get the sense from people that are around the team and around Coleman is that he is extremely aggressive and always wants them to take the extra base. Always wants them to be the aggressor and never play conservative.

I heard alert, aggressive and smart in the Hawk-dominated interview. Maybe we are missing the last piece of the puzzle?

 

Should have hired Rock Raines back. He had 808 sb's.

[Buehrlesque]

I heard alert, aggressive and smart in the Hawk-dominated interview. Maybe we are missing the last piece of the puzzle?

 

Should have hired Rock Raines back. He had 808 sb's.

Anyone know why he was let go from Ozzie's staff in the first place?