bmags Posted August 5, 2016 Share Posted August 5, 2016 Chicago has acted swiftly against the officers, but video is about to be released and the internal review board president said it is disturbing. http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/c...-htmlstory.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quin Posted August 5, 2016 Share Posted August 5, 2016 This is gonna be bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangeSox Posted August 5, 2016 Share Posted August 5, 2016 At least they're not sitting on it for a year and then having the prosecutor come out and make statements like "these are cops, we have to take our time and do our jobs, we can't just rush into an indictment like we would with a normal person!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted August 5, 2016 Author Share Posted August 5, 2016 QUOTE (Quinarvy @ Aug 5, 2016 -> 09:59 AM) This is gonna be bad. The bad thing already happened. The next bad thing that could happen is it was sweeped under rug. This, to this point, is how these things should be handled. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quin Posted August 5, 2016 Share Posted August 5, 2016 QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Aug 5, 2016 -> 11:00 AM) At least they're not sitting on it for a year and then having the prosecutor come out and make statements like "these are cops, we have to take our time and do our jobs, we can't just rush into an indictment like we would with a normal person!" QUOTE (bmags @ Aug 5, 2016 -> 11:02 AM) The bad thing already happened. The next bad thing that could happen is it was sweeped under rug. This, to this point, is how these things should be handled. Fair, this is being handled much better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jenksismyhero Posted August 5, 2016 Share Posted August 5, 2016 So we have a criminal that stole a car, was a danger to the public, was damaging property (hitting a police vehicle and another parked vehicle) and he caused 10? 20? 30? more? cops to chase him through the city, and we're upset because a cop shoots him? Really? Of all of these cop shooting cases, this is the least offensive BY FAR. I'm not sure I even understand what's wrong with him being shot. Why is this asshole some poor blameless victim? That's what you get for being a criminal and for becoming a danger to the public. You get shot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangeSox Posted August 5, 2016 Share Posted August 5, 2016 We'll see what the video shows. But I'm not sure anything you listed there rises to the level of summary execution being justified, and nor does it matter if he was a "poor blameless victim." "Being a (non-convicted) criminal" isn't grounds for being shot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jenksismyhero Posted August 5, 2016 Share Posted August 5, 2016 (edited) QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Aug 5, 2016 -> 12:14 PM) We'll see what the video shows. But I'm not sure anything you listed there rises to the level of summary execution being justified, and nor does it matter if he was a "poor blameless victim." "Being a (non-convicted) criminal" isn't grounds for being shot. Unfortunately there's no body cam footage of the actual death shot since that officer's body cam wasn't working. They've posted the video of a dash cam of the squad car of the officer that shoots at O'neil while he's still in the stolen car (I agree that cop was stupid since he was blindly shooting in the direction of homes/other officers), that cop's body cam and then another cop's body cam after it's all over with. https://www.dnainfo.com/chicago/20160805/so...-authority-says I'm still not seeing it. This dude was a danger to the public. Edited August 5, 2016 by JenksIsMyHero Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangeSox Posted August 5, 2016 Share Posted August 5, 2016 well the police review board seems to pretty strongly disagree, as does the CPD given how quickly they stripped those involved of their police powers. Looked like he got out of the car and was running away at that point. Shooting an unarmed suspect in the back while they are on foot is not and should not be okay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lostfan Posted August 5, 2016 Share Posted August 5, 2016 For everyone's convenience, can we have a list in advance of situations in which spontaneous public summary execution is justified? Thank you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pettie4sox Posted August 5, 2016 Share Posted August 5, 2016 I saw nothing in the video. The body cam of the dude didn't even catch anything until after they caught the suspect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pettie4sox Posted August 5, 2016 Share Posted August 5, 2016 Did he get shot when they fired blindly in the direction of the car after it crashed into them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangeSox Posted August 5, 2016 Share Posted August 5, 2016 (edited) QUOTE (pettie4sox @ Aug 5, 2016 -> 12:27 PM) I saw nothing in the video. The body cam of the dude didn't even catch anything until after they caught the suspect. Press reports were the the autopsy showed he died of a gunshot to the back, and he was shot running away from the car. http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/b...0805-story.html O'Neal struck two Chicago police vehicles in the sports car, and two officers fired at him while he was in the car, authorities said. O'Neal fled from the car, police said, and a third officer chased him behind a home. After O'Neal refused to stop, the officer shot him. O'Neal, who was unarmed, died of a gunshot wound to the back, authorities said. Isn't there a court case where it was explicitly ruled that shooting a fleeing suspect who doesn't pose imminent danger is not a justified killing? Once he's out of the car and is unarmed, he's not an immediate threat. eta yes there was, Tennesse v Garner Edited August 5, 2016 by StrangeSox Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jenksismyhero Posted August 5, 2016 Share Posted August 5, 2016 (edited) QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Aug 5, 2016 -> 12:23 PM) well the police review board seems to pretty strongly disagree, as does the CPD given how quickly they stripped those involved of their police powers. Looked like he got out of the car and was running away at that point. Shooting an unarmed suspect in the back while they are on foot is not and should not be okay. I can understand the guys shooting at him in the car. They were shooting wildly at/around houses and their fellow officers. I'm not surprised about that. Not sure I agree with the second. He already showed his willingness to hit a police car with his car. He's running into private homes. Who knows what he's capable of. Why are we giving deference to the fleeing criminal? edit: actually two police cars it looks like. Edited August 5, 2016 by JenksIsMyHero Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jenksismyhero Posted August 5, 2016 Share Posted August 5, 2016 QUOTE (Ezio Auditore @ Aug 5, 2016 -> 12:25 PM) For everyone's convenience, can we have a list in advance of situations in which spontaneous public summary execution is justified? Thank you. I think it's disingenuous to call this a spontaneous execution. It was a car chase followed by pursuit on foot. This dude had every opportunity to stop and give up. He didn't. Again, in the grand scheme of things, after all the awful shootings that have happened, this is so far down the list. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangeSox Posted August 5, 2016 Share Posted August 5, 2016 (edited) QUOTE (JenksIsMyHero @ Aug 5, 2016 -> 12:40 PM) I can understand the guys shooting at him in the car. They were shooting wildly at/around houses and their fellow officers. I'm not surprised about that. Not sure I agree with the second. He already showed his willingness to hit a police car with his car. He's running into private homes. Who knows what he's capable of. Why are we giving deference to the fleeing criminal? Shooting while he's in the car is actually the justified part I think. There, he has a deadly weapon and can use it to harm officers/other people. Once he's out of the car, he's not posing a threat and "who knows what he's capable of" doesn't come close to meeting the legal standard for shooting a fleeing suspect in the back. We give deference to the fleeing alleged-but-not-yet-convicted criminal because the state exercising its powers to take someone's lives should be extremely limited. QUOTE (JenksIsMyHero @ Aug 5, 2016 -> 12:42 PM) I think it's disingenuous to call this a spontaneous execution. It was a car chase followed by pursuit on foot. This dude had every opportunity to stop and give up. He didn't. Again, in the grand scheme of things, after all the awful shootings that have happened, this is so far down the list. Running from the police isn't punishable by death. It doesn't matter if this guy was less sympathetic of a figure than some of the other outright murders by police officers, it's still a tragedy, it still shouldn't have happened and those involved should still be held accountable. Edited August 5, 2016 by StrangeSox Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jenksismyhero Posted August 5, 2016 Share Posted August 5, 2016 SS here's your fleeing felon law: Under U.S. law the fleeing felon rule was limited in 1985 to non-lethal force in most cases by Tennessee v. Garner, 471 U.S. 1. The justices held that deadly force "may not be used unless necessary to prevent the escape and the officer has probable cause to believe that the suspect poses a significant threat of death or serious bodily harm to the officer or others."[2] A police officer may not seize an unarmed, nondangerous suspect by shooting him dead...however...Where the officer has probable cause to believe that the suspect poses a threat of serious physical harm, either to the officer or to others, it is not constitutionally unreasonable to prevent escape by using deadly force. — Justice Byron White, Tennessee v. Garner[3] Fleeing felons may be followed into places not open to the public without a warrant if the officer is in "hot pursuit.[4] Deadly force that is executed by a co-defendant against an accomplice is not justified by the fleeing felon rule. Obviously that's where the argument lies, if he posed the immediate threat. It's a closer question IMO if he's willing to hit two cop cars and continue fleeing. That to me is a sign that the public is in danger with him still fleeing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangeSox Posted August 5, 2016 Share Posted August 5, 2016 I'm guessing there's post-Garner caselaw on an almost identical scenario. It'd be interesting to see how those rulings typically go but, given how quickly the CPD reacted here, I'm guessing the weight of the evidence and caselaw is on the "unjustified" side and rightly so imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted August 5, 2016 Author Share Posted August 5, 2016 The wildly shooting in a residential area...reminds me so much of the self-caused times square shootings. Really just need to be more careful on engagement. Have not seen actual shooting video. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted August 6, 2016 Share Posted August 6, 2016 Any news on protests/riots in Chicago? Looks like Chicago natives at least are not interested in rioting over incidents like this one, thank goodness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrunkBomber Posted August 6, 2016 Share Posted August 6, 2016 Id imagine any rioting would be in response to no charges being filed on the officer but I wouldnt be surprised if there were protests this weekend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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