Juan Pierre

[Special K]

Fangraphs has a nice little stat hidden on their website called Weighted Runs Above Average ( or wRAA). It measures the how much offensive contribution in runs that a player contributes compared to the rest of the league. It takes into account both the number of at bats and the output from those at bats. It is used as the offensive component of WAR.

 

Pierre was a -5.1 and -6.3 this year. Im not great with the sabermetrcis, but this seems pretty awful. I'd venture to say there isn't a LF fielder in MLB who is worse than him offensively. But when he gets on base, he gets caught stealing 60% of the time this year (8/14), 20 % of the time last year, I'm sure that drastically reduces his OBBP % if factored in.

 

Defense aside, which I think is just average, he has to be the worst LF in all of baseball, and I'd say by far. At a position that is so crucial to offensive production in baseball, I'd think we'd be better off letting Dayan Viciedo start there and just lead off Ramirez. Honestly, I could care less about the prototypical lead off hitter. I think he only is a negative when it comes to offense. He doesn't get on base nearly enough to be considered good to lead off, people just like him there because he's a lefty who can't hit for power and so automatically he is a prototypical lead off hitter.

[Jordan4life_2007]

JP is one of the worst 10 players in baseball. That's a fact. I challenge anybody, even gay Wite, to splash 10 better players. I will destroy you if you attempt to. And I don't mean just this year. Even going back to last year.

[YonderLaroche]

Hmmm Dodgers benched this guy in 2009, we trade 2 pitching prospects for him and have him starting and leading off for us. We then let Scotty Pods go (who sucked at defense, but who could atleast hit and steal bases.) You are the man Kenny Williams. Pods would been at 1/3 the cost and we'd have 2 more pitchers in AAA.

[LVSoxFan]

Agree with you on Pods. For THIS?

[Jordan4life_2007]

And Wite, I mean 10 players that, like, play a lot.

[Special K]

JP is one of the worst 10 players in baseball. That's a fact. I challenge anybody, even gay Wite, to splash 10 better players. I will destroy you if you attempt to. And I don't mean just this year. Even going back to last year.

 

 

I challenge someone to name 1 better LF than Juan Pierre in all of MLB. There can't be anyone in all of MLB that gives you less production than he does at such an important offensive position. I would honestly put Viciedo there and just let Lexi lead off. I would almost guarantee their OBPs are probably similar (comparing last year) without looking them up right now.l

[whitesoxfan99]

Hmmm Dodgers benched this guy in 2009, we trade 2 pitching prospects for him and have him starting and leading off for us. We then let Scotty Pods go (who sucked at defense, but who could atleast hit and steal bases.) You are the man Kenny Williams. Pods would been at 1/3 the cost and we'd have 2 more pitchers in AAA.

 

I'm not going to defend Pierre because he sucks and I never wanted him on the Sox but Podsednik was also awful and if you haven't noticed Pods isn't even in the MLB right now which says a little bit about his talent. Pods was horrific on the basepaths during his last tenure with the White Sox (not this year Juan Pierre bad but truly dreadful). And the farthest I'll go to compliment Pods as a hitter is to say he wasn't terrible. The real culprit behind our awful LFs is that our manager likes awful left handed hitters with no power who have "speed" (even though they kill us on the base paths). Get rid of Ozzie and maybe we can get a real LF.

[caulfield12]

1. Chone Figgins, there's no argument about that, especially with his contract going forward

 

2. The RIOT/Theriot

 

3. Nyjer Morgan

 

4. Jose Lopez

 

5. Cesar Izturis

 

maybe Erick Aybar

 

6. Vernon Wells (once again, based on contracts)

 

7. Gordon Beckham

 

8. Brandon Inge

 

9. Omar Infante

 

10. Miguel Tejada

 

11. Mark Ellis

 

12. Alcides Escobar (although I'd still rather have him than Pierre)

 

13. Raul Ibanez (like Chone, a no doubter)

 

14. Brendan Ryan

 

15. Will Venable

 

16. AJ Pierzynski

 

17. Alex Rios (before today)

 

18. James Loney

 

19. Derek Jeter (based on contract)

 

20. Rick Ankiel

[Milkman delivers]

I'm not going to defend Pierre because he sucks and I never wanted him on the Sox but Podsednik was also awful and if you haven't noticed Pods isn't even in the MLB right now which says a little bit about his talent. Pods was horrific on the basepaths during his last tenure with the White Sox (not this year Juan Pierre bad but truly dreadful). And the farthest I'll go to compliment Pods as a hitter is to say he wasn't terrible. The real culprit behind our awful LFs is that our manager likes awful left handed hitters with no power who have "speed" (even though they kill us on the base paths). Get rid of Ozzie and maybe we can get a real LF.

 

But he would be if he were on the Sox

 

Seriously, Pierre is just the next guy in line on the Sox who won't be in baseball after we drop him.

[LittleHurt05]

Sucks

[Paint it Black]

Hmmm Dodgers benched this guy in 2009, we trade 2 pitching prospects for him and have him starting and leading off for us. We then let Scotty Pods go (who sucked at defense, but who could atleast hit and steal bases.) You are the man Kenny Williams. Pods would been at 1/3 the cost and we'd have 2 more pitchers in AAA.

Juan Pierre is better than Scott Podsednik. There's not question in my mind. Both players are not really good at stealing bases per say, they're just fast. Pierre plays a much better LF and isn't injured 2 to 3 times a year.

 

With that being said, I'm really surprised it's taking the Soxtalk community to realize what Pierre is. Slappy little fast guys are fun to watch, but when they make TONS of outs, put the ball in the air, and when their average is pretty much tied to their OBP, they have to rely basically on luck year after year that hits are going to fall in and in turn, raise their OBP.

 

The obsession with the stolen base with this team NEEDS TO STOP. They're giving away too many outs when they're not hitting, and really, this team is built to slug, not play NL baseball.

[Marty34]

Benching Pierre is the easiest move to improving the team which is why it's so disheartening to see him day in, day out.

[southsideirish71]

Benching Pierre is the easiest move to improving the team which is why it's so disheartening to see him day in, day out.

 

Guillen thinks he is in the NL. He is not going to bench Pierre. He thinks that the leadoff hitter is a position and requires a 40 yard dash time over talent.

 

 

[Capn12]

Scott Podsednik..

 

 

 

LOL

[Balta1701]

Guillen thinks he is in the NL. He is not going to bench Pierre. He thinks that the leadoff hitter is a position and requires a 40 yard dash time over talent.

If Juan Pierre still had a good 40 yard dash time, people would be complaining a lot less.

[greg775]

Guillen thinks he is in the NL. He is not going to bench Pierre. He thinks that the leadoff hitter is a position and requires a 40 yard dash time over talent.

 

Problem is he's become another plodding base clogger.

He can't steal a base anymore and can't bunt for hits.

He bad.

 

I do think he'd be an effective pinch runner going first to third and second to home on a single. That's about it, though.

[shago]

Benching Pierre is the easiest move to improving the team which is why it's so disheartening to see him day in, day out.

See Kotsay 2010 ... JP is thrown out 50%of the time ... and is a Cub to boot. Would rather start The Elf

[greg775]

See Kotsay 2010 ... JP is thrown out 50%of the time ... and is a Cub to boot. Would rather start The Elf

 

Ugg on the elf.

I'd rather start one of the three starting outfielders for our AA or AAA team.

[gatnom]

Juan Pierre is better than Scott Podsednik. There's not question in my mind. Both players are not really good at stealing bases per say, they're just fast. Pierre plays a much better LF and isn't injured 2 to 3 times a year.

 

With that being said, I'm really surprised it's taking the Soxtalk community to realize what Pierre is. Slappy little fast guys are fun to watch, but when they make TONS of outs, put the ball in the air, and when their average is pretty much tied to their OBP, they have to rely basically on luck year after year that hits are going to fall in and in turn, raise their OBP.

 

The obsession with the stolen base with this team NEEDS TO STOP. They're giving away too many outs when they're not hitting, and really, this team is built to slug, not play NL baseball.

 

Perhaps, this is a bad thing...

Edited May 5, 2011 by gatnom

[witesoxfan]

1. Chone Figgins, there's no argument about that, especially with his contract going forward

2. The RIOT/Theriot

3. Nyjer Morgan

4. Jose Lopez

5. Cesar Izturis

6. Vernon Wells (once again, based on contracts)

7. Gordon Beckham

8. Brandon Inge

9. Omar Infante

10. Miguel Tejada

11. Mark Ellis

12. Alcides Escobar (although I'd still rather have him than Pierre)

13. Raul Ibanez (like Chone, a no doubter)

14. Brendan Ryan

15. Will Venable

16. AJ Pierzynski

17. Alex Rios (before today)

18. James Loney

19. Derek Jeter (based on contract)

20. Rick Ankiel

 

Yeah but you cant really use contracts, he was just talking about s***ty players. So that is going to eliminate you mention due to contract.

 

2. Theriot isn't pathetic enough. I don't think he's worse, but he is definitely close.

3. Maybe, but Morgan still plays a pretty capable CF.

4. Lopez has been bad, but I think I'd rather take a chance on him opposed to Pierre.

5. Izturis doesn't play everyday anymore.

7. No way am I taking Juan Pierre over Gordon Beckham. Hell last year alone Beckham was a better player than Juan Pierre.

8. Inge hits for power and plays dynamite defense. I'm taking him over Pierre.

9. Infante plays all over the field and is a good contact hitter. I'm taking him over Pierre.

10. I can probably agree with Tejada, but that one is close.

11. Ellis is good defensively, can draw a walk, and hits for a bit of power. I'm taking him over Pierre.

12. If you'd rather have him, then he is either better or more valuable. I think his defense alone will make him better.

13. I think Ibanez will end up being better offensively, and has been the previous however many seasons.

14. I can agree with Brendan Ryan.

15. Venable is a really damn good player. It's not his fault that his numbers suffer as a result of playing his home games at PetCo, and he is good defensively too.

16. Absolutely.

17. No way.

18. Maybe. I had considered him. Plays an even less premium position compared to Pierre and is really, really bad offensively.

20. I can probably agree with Rick Ankiel at this point too. Ankiel has more upside, but swings and misses way too much and isn't great in the field.

 

So out of that list, I see Tejada, Brendan Ryan, AJ Pieryznski, and Rick Ankiel. Maybe a few others, but those are the only for sures.

 

The ones I have are Yuniesky Betancourt, Melky Cabrera, and Ronny Cedeno.

 

And the only reason I did this exercise was because my name was called. I think Pierre is capable but I have no problem trying to replace him and it's certainly possible that he is one of the 10 worst starting players in the league.

[Jordan4life_2007]

I called Wite out because I knew he would be the one to challenge my claim. And even he couldn't come up with a list of ten. The verdict is in: Juan Pierre is getting paid millions to he bad at his profession.

[MiddleCoastBias]

Bring back Jerry Owens! Amiright!? Eh? Eh, f*** it... Our outfield is hopeless.

[southsider2k5]

Here is the problem right now. Because of the lack of clutch hitting, Ozzie is trying to minimize the number of hits to score a run. Instead need two hits with a guy on first, he is trying to make it one with a guy on second. The problem is that we can't steal a base this year to save our lives.

[caulfield12]

Yeah but you cant really use contracts, he was just talking about s***ty players. So that is going to eliminate you mention due to contract.

 

2. Theriot isn't pathetic enough. I don't think he's worse, but he is definitely close.

3. Maybe, but Morgan still plays a pretty capable CF.

4. Lopez has been bad, but I think I'd rather take a chance on him opposed to Pierre.

5. Izturis doesn't play everyday anymore.

7. No way am I taking Juan Pierre over Gordon Beckham. Hell last year alone Beckham was a better player than Juan Pierre.

8. Inge hits for power and plays dynamite defense. I'm taking him over Pierre.

9. Infante plays all over the field and is a good contact hitter. I'm taking him over Pierre.

10. I can probably agree with Tejada, but that one is close.

11. Ellis is good defensively, can draw a walk, and hits for a bit of power. I'm taking him over Pierre.

12. If you'd rather have him, then he is either better or more valuable. I think his defense alone will make him better.

13. I think Ibanez will end up being better offensively, and has been the previous however many seasons.

14. I can agree with Brendan Ryan.

15. Venable is a really damn good player. It's not his fault that his numbers suffer as a result of playing his home games at PetCo, and he is good defensively too.

16. Absolutely.

17. No way.

18. Maybe. I had considered him. Plays an even less premium position compared to Pierre and is really, really bad offensively.

20. I can probably agree with Rick Ankiel at this point too. Ankiel has more upside, but swings and misses way too much and isn't great in the field.

 

So out of that list, I see Tejada, Brendan Ryan, AJ Pieryznski, and Rick Ankiel. Maybe a few others, but those are the only for sures.

 

The ones I have are Yuniesky Betancourt, Melky Cabrera, and Ronny Cedeno.

 

And the only reason I did this exercise was because my name was called. I think Pierre is capable but I have no problem trying to replace him and it's certainly possible that he is one of the 10 worst starting players in the league.

 

 

Cabrera's only 26 and has shown definite flashes...so he's about in the Beckham category, if/when the White Sox ever give up on him.

 

With a 725 OPS and playing CF, he's more valuable than Pierre, IMO.

 

3/4 today with a homer today and 4 RBI's, 4 HR's/20 RBI's, average in 290's for the season

 

What the heck got into Aviles, Francouer and Cabrera?

Edited May 5, 2011 by caulfield12

[oldsox]

Pierre should go. Sacrifice 3/4's of his salary. We won't get a draft pick for him. We should call up The Tank and see what happens. Can't be any worse. That will open another spot in minors for someone, as well as the 40 man roster. We have to find out if he is the real deal. Pierre's remainning salary is wasted anyway. Come on Kenny, do something.