Serial Podcast

[Jenksismyhero]

Anyone else listening to this? I'm up to date (through episode 9) thanks to the holiday travels. I'd like to get people's opinions on whether Adnan did it or not.

[BigHurt3515]

Anyone else listening to this? I'm up to date (through episode 9) thanks to the holiday travels. I'd like to get people's opinions on whether Adnan did it or not.

 

What exactly is this podcast? I have heard a few people talk about it today.

[Brian]

It has been recommended to me as well by an employee.

[Jenksismyhero]

Think Dateline or 48 Hours Mystery or one of those hour long shows on Friday night where they tell the story of a murder case, and throw in This American Life styling. Back in 1999 a guy was convicted and sentenced to life in prison for the death of his ex-gf. But the case is all circumstantial evidence so it's not certain whether he did it or not. The reporter, a producer of This American Life, narrates her journey as she spends months and months re-investigating the case and interviewing nearly everyone involved, including the convicted guy.

 

Once you listen to one episode you start asking a hundred questions and you're hooked.

 

http://serialpodcast.org/

[BigHurt3515]

Think Dateline or 48 Hours Mystery or one of those hour long shows on Friday night where they tell the story of a murder case, and throw in This American Life styling. Back in 1999 a guy was convicted and sentenced to life in prison for the death of his ex-gf. But the case is all circumstantial evidence so it's not certain whether he did it or not. The reporter, a producer of This American Life, narrates her journey as she spends months and months re-investigating the case and interviewing nearly everyone involved, including the convicted guy.

 

Once you listen to one episode you start asking a hundred questions and you're hooked.

 

http://serialpodcast.org/

 

Might start listening tonight! I love those types of shows so this should be interesting

[Brian]

Listened to the first one yesterday on my dog walk. It's really interesting and well done.

 

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/11/26/s...ef=tv&ir=TV

Edited December 2, 2014 by Brian

[SnB]

Heh, I started listening to this yesterday before even seeing this thread. Definitely interesting and will be listening on my commutes to replace the fantasy football podcast.

[Jenksismyhero]

When everyone gets done with it (or at least within an episode or two of the current episode), post your thoughts.

[BigHurt3515]

I am now on episode 5. I might need to slow down lol

[Middle Buffalo]

I've listened to all, I think. I might be one behind.

 

It's pretty good, and I can't figure out if Adnan is guilty. It seems to me that the friend is pretty heavily involved or may have done it, but I'm not sure of the motive.

 

[BigHurt3515]

Well I am all caught up.. It seems like this case is going to go nowhere though. But I still don't understand how this guy could be convicted without physical evidence to say he did. He was 17, no way he wouldn't have left some sort of physical evidence around the body, in the car, on his clothes. It's almost impossible especially for a 17 year old.

[Jenksismyhero]

See, I think he did it, or at least played a role in it. My best guess is that both he and Jay did it together.

 

For me it's the little things he didn't do - he didn't remember that day (she makes it a point to say it's 4-6 weeks later, but really it's a matter of days when the cops call him and tell him she's missing. Maybe i'm paranoid, maybe it's my lawyer-y way of thinking, but i'm immediately going to think about the last time I saw my now-missing ex-gf out of fear that i'll be wrongly accused of doing something bad); he didn't call her cell phone at any point after she went missing; he basically says Jay is some acquaintance, not a friend, but who goes to smoke pot at a strangers house with an acquaintance (on top of other friends at school who said they WERE close friends).

 

I don't really buy the story that some girl saw him at the time of the murder. Seems like one of those people you can get to say anything over the phone but when push comes to shove they retract what they say. She's 18ish and some lawyer talked her into signing an affidavit. I could see her just doing it to get out of there.

 

I think the investigators did a pretty good job overall, although there's one glaring issue for me that would have proven this case right away - they know where the body was found. They then get a tip about this guy Jay, who says Adnan killed her and they buried her together. Have him take you to the spot where she was buried. If he says he can't remember, push him, because that's BS. Who doesn't remember where they buried a murdered girl? And if he does point out the location, or even the vicinity, he becomes 10000 times more credible and it's basically an open and shut case if he has an alibi during the time she was supposedly killed.

 

Now, having said all that, there's no way I could have convicted him. Too much reasonable doubt. I don't believe much of what Jay says (the Best Buy pay phone is a big issue, as is the escapade to smoke pot at a park that could not have fit in his timeline). It could have been a serial killer. It could have been Jay. It could have been anyone. They're basically going on him being an ex-bf and no one can account for him for those 26 minutes.

 

And while I really enjoy the podcast, the reporter/narrator sometimes bothers me with her questions. Maybe she follows up with Adnan, maybe she doesn't, but she seems to let him off the hook with his answers. She's too satisfied with his responses. She's definitely doing this as a reporter (I want to get facts to publish) and not an attorney/investigator (everyone is a liar). She's also not very subjective, admitting that she basically WANTS him to be innocent. Like the innocence project attorney, I think that can really cloud how you ask people questions and do investigations (not saying she's doing anything egregiously bad, but just to point it out).

Edited December 3, 2014 by Jenksismybitch

[Brian]

Well I am all caught up.. It seems like this case is going to go nowhere though. But I still don't understand how this guy could be convicted without physical evidence to say he did. He was 17, no way he wouldn't have left some sort of physical evidence around the body, in the car, on his clothes. It's almost impossible especially for a 17 year old.

 

Agree with this. I'm only 3 in but sounds like the trial may have been a cluster.

[BigHurt3515]

See, I think he did it, or at least played a role in it. My best guess is that both he and Jay did it together.

 

For me it's the little things he didn't do - he didn't remember that day (she makes it a point to say it's 4-6 weeks later, but really it's a matter of days when the cops call him and tell him she's missing. Maybe i'm paranoid, maybe it's my lawyer-y way of thinking, but i'm immediately going to think about the last time I saw my now-missing ex-gf out of fear that i'll be wrongly accused of doing something bad); he didn't call her cell phone at any point after she went missing; he basically says Jay is some acquaintance, not a friend, but who goes to smoke pot at a strangers house with an acquaintance (on top of other friends at school who said they WERE close friends).

 

I don't really buy the story that some girl saw him at the time of the murder. Seems like one of those people you can get to say anything over the phone but when push comes to shove they retract what they say. She's 18ish and some lawyer talked her into signing an affidavit. I could see her just doing it to get out of there.

 

I think the investigators did a pretty good job overall, although there's one glaring issue for me that would have proven this case right away - they know where the body was found. They then get a tip about this guy Jay, who says Adnan killed her and they buried her together. Have him take you to the spot where she was buried. If he says he can't remember, push him, because that's BS. Who doesn't remember where they buried a murdered girl? And if he does point out the location, or even the vicinity, he becomes 10000 times more credible and it's basically an open and shut case if he has an alibi during the time she was supposedly killed.

 

Now, having said all that, there's no way I could have convicted him. Too much reasonable doubt. I don't believe much of what Jay says (the Best Buy pay phone is a big issue, as is the escapade to smoke pot at a park that could not have fit in his timeline). It could have been a serial killer. It could have been Jay. It could have been anyone. They're basically going on him being an ex-bf and no one can account for him for those 26 minutes.

 

And while I really enjoy the podcast, the reporter/narrator sometimes bothers me with her questions. Maybe she follows up with Adnan, maybe she doesn't, but she seems to let him off the hook with his answers. She's too satisfied with his responses. She's definitely doing this as a reporter (I want to get facts to publish) and not an attorney/investigator (everyone is a liar). She's also not very subjective, admitting that she basically WANTS him to be innocent. Like the innocence project attorney, I think that can really cloud how you ask people questions and do investigations (not saying she's doing anything egregiously bad, but just to point it out).

 

Wait, did she even have a cell phone? I don't remember hearing that she had one but hearing they had to set something in order for the two to talk. If they both had cell phones it would have been pretty easy to call each other.

 

That fact that he was convicted of a murder without physical evidence and only basing it off of one guy who isn't exactly credible is what scares me about our legal system. I can't imagine being convicted of something I know I didn't do.

 

Also:

Is it common for defendants not to take the stand if they feel like they are innocent? If I am in trial for something as big as this and I know I didn't do it, I don't think anyone could keep my mouth shut.

 

The problem I have with when Sarah is talking to Adnan is, he doesn't really act like he is innocent. I know he has been in jail for 15 or so years which could change how someone acts but he isn't pushing that he is innocent through the phone interviews. You would think he would keep pushing that he was innocent and why he is. Also why would Adnan even tell Jay, who he isn't great friends with, that he is going to kill someone and then get him to help bury Hae and be with him for most of the day. Just doesn't make sense to me. I think Jay did it or is covering for someone he loves or is afraid of

Edited December 3, 2014 by BigHurt3515

[GoSox05]

Really interesting podcast. I've listened to all the episodes, but the one that came out today.

 

I really don't know if Adnan is guilty or not, but the one thing that bothers me is the timeline. It just doesn't seem to add up.

 

 

 

[Jenksismyhero]

Wait, did she even have a cell phone? I don't remember hearing that she had one but hearing they had to set something in order for the two to talk. If they both had cell phones it would have been pretty easy to call each other.

 

That fact that he was convicted of a murder without physical evidence and only basing it off of one guy who isn't exactly credible is what scares me about our legal system. I can't imagine being convicted of something I know I didn't do.

 

Yeah in the first or second episode she talks about the call log for Lee's phone. There's a call from Adnan sometime before the murder that lasts a few minutes. Adnan said he gave her his new cell phone number, and she wrote the new number in her diary on the day of the call. So clearly they were still on speaking terms and close enough that he wanted her to have his new number.

 

And just so it's said: circumstantial evidence is just as influential and important as hard physical evidence. In fact, it's probably more likely than not that murder cases are resolved by circumstantial evidence, because hard physical evidence usually isn't available. That in and of itself isn't very troubling to me. And I don't think the prosecutors or investigators botched the case or brought a case that was total BS. It's a close call. Adnan is clearly the most likely killer (assuming Don's alibi really did check out). He's got the potential motive, he's not accounted for, and they've got a witness who, inconsistencies or not, tells the same general story that seems to all line up and make sense.

 

 

Also:

Is it common for defendants not to take the stand if they feel like they are innocent? If I am in trial for something as big as this and I know I didn't do it, I don't think anyone could keep my mouth shut.

 

The problem I have with when Sarah is talking to Adnan is, he doesn't really act like he is innocent. I know he has been in jail for 15 or so years which could change how someone acts but he isn't pushing that he is innocent through the phone interviews. You would think he would keep pushing that he was innocent and why he is. Also why would Adnan even tell Jay, who he isn't great friends with, that he is going to kill someone and then get him to help bury Hae and be with him for most of the day. Just doesn't make sense to me. I think Jay did it or is covering for someone he loves or is afraid of

 

As to defendant taking the stand: it's probably more common for defendant's not to, especially in a case like this where the defense isn't really "i didn't do it and here's why," it's more "the state brought this case on bulls*** evidence and there's no proof I did it." He has no obligation to take the stand in his defense. It was probably the right move to not allow a 17 year old to undergo cross examination. Although the way he explains himself to Sarah (obviously 15 years later), he seems like a really smart guy. He might have done well for himself on the stand. But that's a huge gamble.

 

As to Adnan's demeanor, I chalk that up to being in jail for 15 years and accepting that there's a 99.9% chance he'll be there the rest of his life no matter what. He maintains his innocence, both to her and through his appeals. And i'm sure 5 years into his sentence he was much emotional about it. But you'd have to think it's human nature to accept the decision, even if you think it's BS and you want to maintain your innocence.

Edited December 4, 2014 by Jenksismybitch

[bmags]

binged on this.

 

Another aspect to "why isn't he more forceful in his innocence on the phone" is keep in mind she has talked to him probably 100 times on the phone over months, she is picking what to include. There was one episode where he does get mad, but if every time he talked it would just be "i'm innocent" it would be boring.

 

I think an interesting thing is I didn't realize until a while in that the idea she was dead at 2:36 was not due to a medical examination, but strictly the phone logs. That she could have been killed whenever is a huge question. But I just...I think the trial didn't prove he was guilty, but on the other hand, through all of this, no motive for Jay to do this has been established. Who else could he be covering for. That he knew where her car was is just too much.

[SnB]

Everytime I hear clips from his lawyer, I can't stop thinking "GET TO THE POINT." She has such a grating, rambling way of speaking that I think the jury just loses her.

[Jenksismyhero]

Everytime I hear clips from his lawyer, I can't stop thinking "GET TO THE POINT." She has such a grating, rambling way of speaking that I think the jury just loses her.

 

Part of that is by design. You try to bore the jury and take their minds off the fact that they're there because of a pretty gruesome murder. The more innocuous you can make the whole thing seem the better. But I do agree that she would get annoying very quickly.

[Jenksismyhero]

Is there anything that people in this country won't get mad about?

 

Best Buy ✔ @BestBuy

Follow

We have everything you need. Unless you need a payphone. #Serial

2:48 PM - 11 Dec 2014

 

http://mashable.com/2014/12/11/best-buy-se...om-Tw-main-link

Edited December 11, 2014 by Jenksismybitch

[bmags]

Eh, f*** best buy. I hate when corps try to advertise by adding a stupid comment for a trending topic.

[Brian]

Adnan's lawyers sucked

[BigHurt3515]

I wonder how this will end

[Brian]

I wonder how this will end

 

I'm not looking things up online because I want to listen and see what happens, but hope people don't have expectations that it will end with someone else being found as the killer and Adnan being released. I'm expecting a ho hum finish and would be fine with that since it has been so well done and interesting.

[Buehrle>Wood]

Man they really need make the police interviews more clear or recap every word. So hard to hear. Episode 5.

Edited December 12, 2014 by Buehrle>Wood