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New rule idea: Vertical safe zone


ChiliIrishHammock24
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Vertical safe zones?  

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  1. 1. In favor of it?

    • Yeah dog
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    • Nah son
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    • Think of something better
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Dave Cameron was getting lit up on Twitter tonight about feeling that a replay like tonight's replay on Lobaton being picked off of 1st ruins baseball, and it shouldn't be that way. So his solution is a rule where once you make contact with the bag, you are granted a "vertical safe zone", so as long as you are still directly over the base, you are safe. This would not protect against players who slide PAST a base and their hand fails to grip the bag, just instances where a player makes contact with the bag and they slightly bounce over the top of the bag for a 1/100th of a second before coming back down on it.

 

https://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/dear-mlb-pl...e-slide-replay/

 

I would actually be in favor of this.

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QUOTE (ChiliIrishHammock24 @ Oct 13, 2017 -> 01:54 AM)
Dave Cameron was getting lit up on Twitter tonight about feeling that a replay like tonight's replay on Lobaton being picked off of 1st ruins baseball, and it shouldn't be that way. So his solution is a rule where once you make contact with the bag, you are granted a "vertical safe zone", so as long as you are still directly over the base, you are safe. This would not protect against players who slide PAST a base and their hand fails to grip the bag, just instances where a player makes contact with the bag and they slightly bounce over the top of the bag for a 1/100th of a second before coming back down on it.

 

https://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/dear-mlb-pl...e-slide-replay/

 

I would actually be in favor of this.

 

It mimics the NFL rules regarding the goal line, which technically by rule is an infinite plane that goes around the world and infinitely high. Once said plane is crossed, the play is over, regardless of what else happens.

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Nope, not at all in favor of imaginary lines and planes. I think a better idea would be for players to learn how to slide better. It's part of baseball's fundamentals. If they do this at 1B, how long before they do the same thing for over-slides on the the other bases? No thanks, just leave it as is.

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QUOTE (yesterday333 @ Oct 13, 2017 -> 10:04 AM)
Is it really that hard to stay on the base? You know if you come off you can be out. It really doesn't take that much extra effort to not come off the bag...

 

Apparently it is kind of hard, since the professionals have a hard time with it

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QUOTE (yesterday333 @ Oct 13, 2017 -> 08:04 AM)
Is it really that hard to stay on the base? You know if you come off you can be out. It really doesn't take that much extra effort to not come off the bag...

Well, if you are really coming in fast and hard, I can definitely see how it would be easy to have your foot or leg slide up off the base momentarily. Those bases are really smooth.

 

Perhaps everyone can wear velcro and they could make the base velcro so once you slide into it, you just stick ;)

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In all seriousness, I would even be willing to take it a step further and consider that once you reach a base, you are considered safe on that base even if you come off. The only exception being if you make an effort to advance to the next base, in which case you could be tagged out.

 

It really is foolish, when you think about it, that you have to remain in contact with the base at all times or be in jeopardy of being tagged out.

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If you require people to stick their heel to the base to stop there will be more injuries. So they slide over it and may injure the player on second, avoid both and are now getting tagged out.

 

Maybe first to touch is best then. Seems like they are in a bad spot that has caused a lot more issues.

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I just think you are going to make things infinitely more complicated trying to make a rule like this, where as it is pretty cut and dry with the rules how they are now. on the base you are safe, off you are not... why make some convoluted rule for this case where its ok to come off the base. Don't make things more complicated than they need to be.

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QUOTE (yesterday333 @ Oct 13, 2017 -> 10:57 AM)
I just think you are going to make things infinitely more complicated trying to make a rule like this, where as it is pretty cut and dry with the rules how they are now. on the base you are safe, off you are not... why make some convoluted rule for this case where its ok to come off the base. Don't make things more complicated than they need to be.

 

I don't find this that complicated.

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This nonsense of basic rules dont apply because it hurts my sensibilities is nuts. I am sure National fans are upset about the dropped 3rd strike rule at this moment as well. Here is a solution. Block or catch the ball.

 

No, no vertical safe zone. Its simple. Stay on the bag. He wasn't pushed off the bag or prevented entry. He slid and popped up. Its no different than someone switching their feet and losing contact with the base and getting tagged. Keep a body part connected with the bag at all times and you are good. Lobaton took an aggressive secondary and paid the price for it.

Edited by southsideirish71
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QUOTE (southsideirish71 @ Oct 13, 2017 -> 04:55 PM)
This nonsense of basic rules dont apply because it hurts my sensibilities is nuts. I am sure National fans are upset about the dropped 3rd strike rule at this moment as well. Here is a solution. Block or catch the ball.

 

No, no vertical safe zone. Its simple. Stay on the bag. He wasn't pushed off the bag or prevented entry. He slid and popped up. Its no different than someone switching their feet and losing contact with the base and getting tagged. Keep a body part connected with the bag at all times and you are good. Lobaton took an aggressive secondary and paid the price for it.

 

Yeah I think it should be up to the runner to stay on the bag. The part that is frustrating is how conclusive evidence on replays doesn't seem to mean the same to various teams.

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QUOTE (southsideirish71 @ Oct 13, 2017 -> 11:55 AM)
This nonsense of basic rules dont apply because it hurts my sensibilities is nuts. I am sure National fans are upset about the dropped 3rd strike rule at this moment as well. Here is a solution. Block or catch the ball.

 

No, no vertical safe zone. Its simple. Stay on the bag. He wasn't pushed off the bag or prevented entry. He slid and popped up. Its no different than someone switching their feet and losing contact with the base and getting tagged. Keep a body part connected with the bag at all times and you are good. Lobaton took an aggressive secondary and paid the price for it.

I agree. If you are off the base and you are tagged, you are out. Now they can look at it better. I thought replay was to get the call right.

 

Yes it gets a little old waiting on replay when these things happen, but players can adapt. They have crazy slides to avoid tags. If it's OK to be off the base when you are tagged, why wouldn't the ball beat him so he's out also apply, and the neighborhood call on DP attempts.

 

I'm still trying to figure out the dropped 3rd strike. As the rule is written he should have been out. Is that reviewable? Did Dusty not know the rule? If that was reviewable, IMO that is a fireable offense, especially since Dusty has no contract for next year anyway.

Edited by Dick Allen
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QUOTE (southsideirish71 @ Oct 13, 2017 -> 11:55 AM)
This nonsense of basic rules dont apply because it hurts my sensibilities is nuts.

 

Yeah, but part of Cameron's point is that these rules aren't becoming as "basic" anymore, now that we have super slo mo cameras to see details that were never seen before. As he points out, for 100+ years, Lobotan would have been called safe. It's only NOW that we have super detailed camera work that he is ruled out. Cameron is arguing giving the vertical safe zone would actually create results more in line with what we have always seen in the past.

 

Because if you are talking about most BASIC of all, it's almost always been if the runner gets to the bag first, he's safe. Umpires never followed through with the minute details like they have to do via replay. These are calls that were never called before. So if you're a purist, vertical safe zones actually just take away super slo-mo replays changing ridiculously technical plays like that, and return calls to how they were always called.

 

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QUOTE (OmarComing25 @ Oct 13, 2017 -> 06:25 PM)
I mean if you want to get REALLY technical then due to electrons the baserunner is never actually in contact with the base, ditto for the glove/ball and the runner. :P

 

And I would also say that there are numerous times a player doesn't touch home when they slide feet/hand first, but only Adrian Gonzalez gets punished for that

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QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Oct 13, 2017 -> 06:18 PM)
I agree. If you are off the base and you are tagged, you are out. Now they can look at it better. I thought replay was to get the call right.

 

Yes it gets a little old waiting on replay when these things happen, but players can adapt. They have crazy slides to avoid tags. If it's OK to be off the base when you are tagged, why wouldn't the ball beat him so he's out also apply, and the neighborhood call on DP attempts.

 

I'm still trying to figure out the dropped 3rd strike. As the rule is written he should have been out. Is that reviewable? Did Dusty not know the rule? If that was reviewable, IMO that is a fireable offense, especially since Dusty has no contract for next year anyway.

 

Dusty and the umpires didn't know the exact rule.

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