Some love for Zack Collins

[winninguglyin83]

After years of being snubbed by Baseball America, the Sox prospects kicked up some love on Opening Night in the minor leagues.

 

http://www.baseballamerica.com/minors/coll...with-big-night/

[royoung]

After years of being snubbed by Baseball America, the Sox prospects kicked up some love on Opening Night in the minor leagues.

 

http://www.baseballamerica.com/minors/coll...with-big-night/

 

Collins bat is nearly MLB ready, he is in Winston-Salem to work on catching. He is going to put up some crazy numbers in the Carolina League before they promote him to Birmingham.

[bmags]

BA is located in NC, and those teams finally have some really interesting prospects. Going to get a lot of good stuff from that team this year.

[steveno89]

Collins bat is nearly MLB ready, he is in Winston-Salem to work on catching. He is going to put up some crazy numbers in the Carolina League before they promote him to Birmingham.

 

I fully expect Collins to tear up high A ball at the plate

 

He has a great hitting approach and knows how to take walks

 

If he can stick at catcher he could be a star for the White Sox

[Boopa1219]

I fully expect Collins to tear up high A ball at the plate

 

He has a great hitting approach and knows how to take walks

 

If he can stick at catcher he could be a star for the White Sox

 

He could be a star for them regardless of where he is playing.

 

I'm of the mind that if he bat really plays that they should move him from off the plate

[steveno89]

He could be a star for them regardless of where he is playing.

 

I'm of the mind that if he bat really plays that they should move him from off the plate

 

Way too early to move him off of catcher

 

Sox should do everything possible to try and get him to stick behidn the plate. The value of having a plus hitting catcher with pop is massive.

 

His bat is far less valuable at 1B or DH

[BlackSox13]

He could be a star for them regardless of where he is playing.

 

I'm of the mind that if he bat really plays that they should move him from off the plate

Agreed. If Collins bat becomes something special/star like, I'd like to see him moved to first. Keep his knees healthy and his bat in the lineup. I see Collins as a long time White Sox player for years to come so I'm not concerned about his positional value. Collins eye and power reminds me a bit of Joey Votto.

[steveno89]

Agreed. If Collins bat becomes something special/star like, I'd like to see him moved to first. Keep his knees healthy and his bat in the lineup. I see Collins as a long time White Sox player for years to come so I'm not concerned about his positional value. Collins eye and power reminds me a bit of Joey Votto.

 

You can always move him to 1B/DH later in his career, but the value of having an average defensive catcher who is a plus hitter with pop is too huge to pass up

 

Instead of having a black hole at catcher, you can have Collins bat in the lineup AND have a 1B and DH that can also hit well, which really strengthens the overall lineup a ton

 

Him sticking at catcher boosts his WAR big time annually

[ptatc]

You can always move him to 1B/DH later in his career, but the value of having an average defensive catcher who is a plus hitter with pop is too huge to pass up

 

Instead of having a black hole at catcher, you can have Collins bat in the lineup AND have a 1B and DH that can also hit well, which really strengthens the overall lineup a ton

 

Him sticking at catcher boosts his WAR big time annually

What if it takes an extra 2 years to catch up defensively before he makes it to the MLB. Is it worth it to have his bat out of the MLB line up for two years?

[steveno89]

What if it takes an extra 2 years to catch up defensively before he makes it to the MLB. Is it worth it to have his bat out of the MLB line up for two years?

 

The value of a plus hitting catcher who is passable behind the plate is arguably the most valuable position on the diamond, position player wise

 

Most mlb catchers are not great hitters

 

You absolutely let Collins develop as a catcher until you are forced to move him to 1B/DH

 

1B/DH can be filled by nearly anybody who can hit, catcher not so much

 

Plus, if you move Collins off of catcher as you are saying, who catches? We are left with a hole and are searching for other catchers still

 

Much easier to find 1B/DH that starting caliber backstops

[Buehrlesque]

Agreed. If Collins bat becomes something special/star like, I'd like to see him moved to first. Keep his knees healthy and his bat in the lineup. I see Collins as a long time White Sox player for years to come so I'm not concerned about his positional value. Collins eye and power reminds me a bit of Joey Votto.

I don't think Collins will reach the levels of Joey Votto, but if he does (or comes close), I agree he should be moved off catcher. If he turns out to be a slightly-above-average bat, then he can stay behind the plate (if the glove is adequate).

[ptatc]

The value of a plus hitting catcher who is passable behind the plate is arguably the most valuable position on the diamond, position player wise

 

Most mlb catchers are not great hitters

 

You absolutely let Collins develop as a catcher until you are forced to move him to 1B/DH

 

1B/DH can be filled by nearly anybody who can hit, catcher not so much

 

Plus, if you move Collins off of catcher as you are saying, who catches? We are left with a hole and are searching for other catchers still

 

Much easier to find 1B/DH that starting caliber backstops

That's all true.

 

I'm not saying it's right or wrong but it's a good debate. Just because the position is more valuable WHEN he gets to the MLB, doesn't mean it's more valuable than losing two years of his career and production.

[steveno89]

That's all true.

 

I'm not saying it's right or wrong but it's a good debate. Just because the position is more valuable WHEN he gets to the MLB, doesn't mean it's more valuable than losing two years of his career and production.

 

I agree with you

 

Teams can go a decade without finding a decent starting catcher, whereas it's much easier to find a bat to plug in 1b/dh

 

I'd be willing to develop him an additional season or two if it means he can be a starting mlb catcher defensively

 

 

[Buehrlesque]

I agree with you

 

Teams can go a decade without finding a decent starting catcher, whereas it's much easier to find a bat to plug in 1b/dh

 

I'd be willing to develop him an additional season or two if it means he can be a starting mlb catcher defensively

Though this is the conventional wisdom, I don't completely agree with it. Elite slugging 1B/DHs can have more impact, and thus could be considered the priority. I'll generally take a meh catcher who can handle the pitching staff, play solid D, and give menial offensive from the bottom of the line up. If Collins becomes a really really good hitter, a centerpiece to the offense, I personally would rather him play the less physically strenuous position of 1B/DH than catcher, especially if he'll never be more than slightly below average defensively behind the plate anyway. Not sure Collins' bat will rise quite to that level, but if it does the Sox will have a decision to make.

[Dick Allen]

I did read a Keith Law chat a while back where he said Collins' bat is better than advertised.

[witesoxfan]

Though this is the conventional wisdom, I don't completely agree with it. Elite slugging 1B/DHs can have more impact, and thus could be considered the priority. I'll generally take a meh catcher who can handle the pitching staff, play solid D, and give menial offensive from the bottom of the line up. If Collins becomes a really really good hitter, a centerpiece to the offense, I personally would rather him play the less physically strenuous position of 1B/DH than catcher, especially if he'll never be more than slightly below average defensively behind the plate anyway. Not sure Collins' bat will rise quite to that level, but if it does the Sox will have a decision to make.

 

You can still have him catch 80-120 games a year, which gets you a better bat in the lineup otherwise, and have him DH/1B for 20-60 games a year too. That saves some of the wear and tear but frees up a spot in the lineup to get a guy with a bat in the lineup. It would probably require a very serviceable emergency catcher, but I don't necessarily see that as an issue. That's going to affect, what, 1 or maybe 2 games a year? And even if Collins were DHing and the catcher was hurt or pinch hit for and you lost the DH for the rest of the game, it's one game.

 

I could see the Giants moving Buster Posey off catcher in the next year or two, but that will still have given them 7-8 years of Posey catching, which provides huge surplus value and allows them to utilize Brandon Belt.

 

You let Collins try and catch as long as you can. The Sox are in no need to rush him to the majors, even if the bat would play.

[beautox]

Let him catch until he proves he can't the market is flooded with 1B/DH types. Catching even mediocre catching is at a premium. If his bat could be ready by midseason next year but his catching is lagging behind give him every chance to start behind the dish, his bat is as good as advertised so he can always play 1B or DH but an elite top 5 catcher those are damn near priceless. Having him be the primary catcher deepens a future line up immensely.

[southsider2k5]

What if it takes an extra 2 years to catch up defensively before he makes it to the MLB. Is it worth it to have his bat out of the MLB line up for two years?

 

Realistically? There isn't a good reason to start his clock for a couple of years anyway.

[Soha]

The value of a plus hitting catcher who is passable behind the plate is arguably the most valuable position on the diamond, position player wise

 

Most mlb catchers are not great hitters

 

You absolutely let Collins develop as a catcher until you are forced to move him to 1B/DH

 

1B/DH can be filled by nearly anybody who can hit, catcher not so much

 

Plus, if you move Collins off of catcher as you are saying, who catches? We are left with a hole and are searching for other catchers still

 

Much easier to find 1B/DH that starting caliber backstops

 

I agree with this. If he sticks at catcher and is a great hitter, and you can find a big thumper to play 1B, you've come a long way towards an elite offense.

[steveno89]

I agree with this. If he sticks at catcher and is a great hitter, and you can find a big thumper to play 1B, you've come a long way towards an elite offense.

 

Exactly

 

Our farm currently does not have a high upside 1B/DH type player in it now, but that doesn't mean one won't be added over time

 

Keeping Collins at catcher allows you to stuff the lineup with another plus hitting 1B/DH, strengthening the entire offense

 

I see Collins as having similar upside to a young Mike Napoli

[Jake]

A question worth asking is how much the level of competition matters for developing his defense. One explanation I've heard is that focusing on defense will detract from his bat, so keeping him at a level where the hitting isn't too challenging for him gives him the flexibility to devote his time to refining his defense.