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> The Republican Thread
Rex Kicka**
post Jul 9, 2008 -> 08:40 AM
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Fresh and new for your pleasure.

This is a great place to talk about how great McCain is, don't you think?
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Jenksismybitch
post Jul 9, 2008 -> 08:55 AM
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first post in the thread!


Repubs rule.
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kapkomet
post Jul 9, 2008 -> 08:59 AM
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QUOTE (Rex Kicka** @ Jul 9, 2008 -> 08:40 AM) *
Fresh and new for your pleasure.

This is a great place to talk about how great McCain is, don't you think?

Um, not really. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)
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southsider2k5
post Jul 9, 2008 -> 09:12 AM
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QUOTE (Rex Kicka** @ Jul 9, 2008 -> 08:40 AM) *
Fresh and new for your pleasure.

This is a great place to talk about how great McCain is, don't you think?


You keep using that word, I do not think it means what you think it means...
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southsider2k5
post Jul 9, 2008 -> 11:50 AM
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Apparently China is in NAFTA now?

http://campaignspot.nationalreview.com/pos...TRmZjUyZTdjYzc=

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In a world where the rising economic powers are referred to by the acronym BRIC [Brazil, Russia, India and China], Obama urges you to make sure your children speak Spanish in order to get jobs in "international business."

[I know what you're thinking, and no, Brazilians speak Portuguese.]

Then again, during a Democratic debate, he said, "I talked to workers who have seen their plants shipped overseas as a consequence of bad trade deals like NAFTA, literally seeing equipment unbolted from the floors of factories and shipped to China."

Apparently our children must speak Spanish so they can explain to the Chinese why we're withdrawing from NAFTA.
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Athomeboy_2000
post Jul 9, 2008 -> 12:03 PM
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QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jul 9, 2008 -> 12:50 PM) *

helps if you read the quote:
"...plants shipped overseas as a consequence of bad trade deals like NAFTA"

This post has been edited by Athomeboy_2000: Jul 9, 2008 -> 12:03 PM
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southsider2k5
post Jul 9, 2008 -> 12:40 PM
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QUOTE (Athomeboy_2000 @ Jul 9, 2008 -> 12:03 PM) *
helps if you read the quote:
"...plants shipped overseas as a consequence of bad trade deals like NAFTA"


Really it goes back to the class warfare and scare tactics that have been totally previlant during this election cycle. He has to throw out all of the scary things like NAFTA and China, even when they aren't related, and make no sense together anyway. The fact Obama is conviently missing is that we have no free trade agreement with China, but that doesn't fit his rhetoric, so he has to bring in NAFTA to scare people with. He also likes to leave out that all of those cheap imports are what keep consumers spending ability in check with the small wage growth over the years. I would love to hear the howls from people if they made Toyotas cost $40,000 each to protect American automotive workers and simliar types of actions. Free trade is a two way street, and not the demon that the unions are paying him to say that it is. Remember that the next time you log onto your cheap foreign made computer.

In other words, he is lying at best, and clueless at worst.
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Athomeboy_2000
post Jul 9, 2008 -> 12:42 PM
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it's a waste of my time to try and debate this.

Edit: actually, let me make one final comment. he said "bad trade deals", not "bad free trade deals". We do have a trade deal with China, right?
It's bad, right? nothing he said was inaccurate. It's pretty lame to try and say he said we had free trade with China. he never said it.

This post has been edited by Athomeboy_2000: Jul 9, 2008 -> 12:50 PM
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lostfan
post Jul 9, 2008 -> 12:47 PM
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QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jul 9, 2008 -> 02:40 PM) *
Really it goes back to the class warfare and scare tactics that have been totally previlant during this election cycle. He has to throw out all of the scary things like NAFTA and China, even when they aren't related, and make no sense together anyway. The fact Obama is conviently missing is that we have no free trade agreement with China, but that doesn't fit his rhetoric, so he has to bring in NAFTA to scare people with. He also likes to leave out that all of those cheap imports are what keep consumers spending ability in check with the small wage growth over the years. I would love to hear the howls from people if they made Toyotas cost $40,000 each to protect American automotive workers and simliar types of actions. Free trade is a two way street, and not the demon that the unions are paying him to say that it is. Remember that the next time you log onto your cheap foreign made computer.

In other words, he is lying at best, and clueless at worst.

Semantics aside, the underlying theme in all of this from opponents of free trade (and I use the term "opponents" loosely, because being in that category doesn't make someone against all types of free trade) is the trade deficit and loss of U.S. jobs to overseas manufacturers, usually to India and China. But it is an election year and the economy is stagnant, so the rhetoric gets turned up, making the BS meters register more than they would normally.
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southsider2k5
post Jul 9, 2008 -> 12:59 PM
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QUOTE (lostfan @ Jul 9, 2008 -> 12:47 PM) *
Semantics aside, the underlying theme in all of this from opponents of free trade (and I use the term "opponents" loosely, because being in that category doesn't make someone against all types of free trade) is the trade deficit and loss of U.S. jobs to overseas manufacturers, usually to India and China. But it is an election year and the economy is stagnant, so the rhetoric gets turned up, making the BS meters register more than they would normally.


The trade deficit is a function of US consumers buying stuff from the rest of the world, and not the actions of some free trade agreement. If we as a nation were willing to pay more for American items instead of their cheaper foreign counterparts they would still have jobs here. We aren't, and off to overseas the jobs go. Like I mentioned in my last post, look at the auto industry. Toyota is about to overtake GM as the biggest seller of cars in the world, and because of it 10s of thousands of American workers are losing their jobs. Its not just $10 an hour manufacturing jobs we are talking about, these are $100k plus jobs with health care, pensions, and every other fringe benefit we can imagine. How many people would be willing to pay an extra $5 or $10 thousand dollars per Honda/Kia/Lexus/Toyota etc to protect American jobs, because this is exactly what the real life cost of not having free trade would be. The other side of the coin is that it allows our industries to export to places that can use the products we do make. America exports food like nobodies business, and it was what kept farmers in business for a long time. Before free trade to certian parts of the world, the US government had to pay farmers NOT to grow food to keep prices artificially high so that they wouldn't go bankrupt. Artificially high prices in other countries hurt our exporting industries. Hell exporters are what has kept this economy out of a true recession as I type. Turn the places they export into protected markets, and we are looking at double digit inflation on top of double digit unemployment. The opponents of free trade are the unions in this country looking to stay relevant in a time when they are disappearing at a pace never before seen in American history, and for a large part, they have themselves to thank for that.
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southsider2k5
post Jul 10, 2008 -> 06:21 AM
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Its pretty sad when even Jesse Jackson is whispering essentially that Barack Obama is full of it. I hate to be on the same side as one of the countries biggest enforcers of the nations racial divide, but I will go one step further and say that Obama has been talking down to the entire nation, especially since Hillary dropped out, and it was refreshing to see someone who has a vested interest in seeing him win call him out on it. (even if he didn't want anyone else to know about it)
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Alpha Dog
post Jul 10, 2008 -> 07:06 AM
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QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jul 10, 2008 -> 07:21 AM) *
Its pretty sad when even Jesse Jackson is whispering essentially that Barack Obama is full of it. I hate to be on the same side as one of the countries biggest enforcers of the nations racial divide, but I will go one step further and say that Obama has been talking down to the entire nation, especially since Hillary dropped out, and it was refreshing to see someone who has a vested interest in seeing him win call him out on it. (even if he didn't want anyone else to know about it)

I'm not so sure that Jessie really wants Obama to win. I see a petty man there, one who is jealous of Obama's campaign success, and who is all but ignored by Obama. I think on the surface he is pulling for him, but underneath, I bet he is very conflicted. I agree with you that I think Obama has been talking down to people, just not quite sure on Jessie's motivations.
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kapkomet
post Jul 10, 2008 -> 07:12 AM
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QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jul 10, 2008 -> 06:21 AM) *
Its pretty sad when even Jesse Jackson is whispering essentially that Barack Obama is full of it. I hate to be on the same side as one of the countries biggest enforcers of the nations racial divide, but I will go one step further and say that Obama has been talking down to the entire nation, especially since Hillary dropped out, and it was refreshing to see someone who has a vested interest in seeing him win call him out on it. (even if he didn't want anyone else to know about it)

And my question is, why can't general people see this? I just cannot understand the hype. Barack Obama is an eliteist - and I'm not trying to use that as a cliche - but he promotes social divide with his policy.

Anytime you want to "redistribute" anything in a capitalistic society you have trouble. I understand there has to be some - but his whole policy on damn near everything has elements of it. There are other ways to do things.

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southsider2k5
post Jul 10, 2008 -> 07:14 AM
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QUOTE (Alpha Dog @ Jul 10, 2008 -> 07:06 AM) *
I'm not so sure that Jessie really wants Obama to win. I see a petty man there, one who is jealous of Obama's campaign success, and who is all but ignored by Obama. I think on the surface he is pulling for him, but underneath, I bet he is very conflicted. I agree with you that I think Obama has been talking down to people, just not quite sure on Jessie's motivations.


I think Jesse benefits more from a win versus a loss. He might actually get a position of power out of this.
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kapkomet
post Jul 10, 2008 -> 07:15 AM
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QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jul 10, 2008 -> 07:14 AM) *
I think Jesse benefits more from a win versus a loss. He might actually get a position of power out of this.

I'd be pretty surprised at this because Jesse and Barack aren't exactly "friends".
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