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Tex
post Nov 19, 2010 -> 09:29 AM
Post #1


Achieving Multiple Sarcasms
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I was hearing today that amid the giddyness of Republicans being able to overhaul the health care bill comes the sobering reality that plans are already underway to comply. The expense of complying, then changing to something new, could be a nasty little surprise to some folks.

Also

What does it say about an industry that is against a law that would dump millions of new paying customers in their laps?
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Balta1701
post Dec 15, 2010 -> 02:11 PM
Post #2


For I have returned to have my vengeance
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Let me switch constitutional law professors here.
QUOTE
When uninsured individuals get sick, they borrow money from their families to pay for the costs of health care. They buy over-the-counter medicines. Above all, they go to emergency rooms and demand medical services. In 2008 these demands cost hospitals some $43 billion. All of these are significant effects on interstate commerce.

But according to Judge Hudson's decision striking down the individual mandate, these effects on commerce are completely irrelevant and Congress cannot take any of them into account. Congress cannot regulate uninsured individuals, Judge Hudson explained, because these individuals are not doing anything when they fail to buy insurance -- yet they are borrowing money, purchasing drugs, or visiting emergency rooms instead.

This is pure sophistry. Such arguments are reminiscent of the constitutional struggles over the New Deal, when the Supreme Court's conservative majority argued that no matter how great an effect labor strikes had on the national economy, Congress could not regulate working conditions because their effects on interstate commerce were only indirect. Judge Hudson's decision is yet another example of a long line of formalist jurisprudence that is blinkered to reality.

Judge Hudson's other major argument was that Congress cannot justify the individual mandate under its powers to tax and spend for the general welfare. The individual mandate is a tax imposed on people who do not purchase health care; it is part of the Internal Revenue Code and is collected by the I.R.S. However, Judge Hudson argued that Congress had no power to pass the individual mandate under the General Welfare Clause because Congress used the word "penalty" and not the word "tax."

This is, if anything, even worse sophistry, a sort of constitutional game of Simon Says. To make his case, Judge Hudson was forced to dredge up jurisprudence from the court's Lochner Era, which has been discredited since the New Deal.
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- Tex   OBAMACARE MEGATHREAD OBAMA OBAMA CARE CARE   Nov 19, 2010 -> 09:29 AM
- - southsider2k5   QUOTE (Tex @ Nov 19, 2010 -> 09:2...   Nov 19, 2010 -> 10:45 AM
- - Athomeboy_2000   Federal Judge In Va. Rules Part Of Health Care Law...   Dec 13, 2010 -> 11:26 AM
|- - NorthSideSox72   QUOTE (Athomeboy_2000 @ Dec 13, 2010 -...   Dec 13, 2010 -> 12:04 PM
|- - Balta1701   QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ Dec 13, 2010 -...   Dec 13, 2010 -> 12:09 PM
|- - NorthSideSox72   QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Dec 13, 2010 -> 12...   Dec 13, 2010 -> 12:20 PM
|- - Balta1701   QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ Dec 13, 2010 -...   Dec 13, 2010 -> 12:28 PM
|- - Jenksismybitch   QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Dec 13, 2010 -> 12...   Dec 13, 2010 -> 12:30 PM
|- - Balta1701   QUOTE (Jenksismyb**** @ Dec 13, 2010 -...   Dec 13, 2010 -> 12:34 PM
|- - Jenksismybitch   QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Dec 13, 2010 -> 12...   Dec 13, 2010 -> 12:45 PM
|- - Balta1701   QUOTE (Jenksismyb**** @ Dec 13, 2010 -...   Dec 13, 2010 -> 12:51 PM
|- - Jenksismybitch   QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Dec 13, 2010 -> 12...   Dec 13, 2010 -> 01:49 PM
- - Balta1701   Generally conservative/libertarian judicial commen...   Dec 13, 2010 -> 04:24 PM
|- - StrangeSox   QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Dec 13, 2010 -> 04...   Dec 13, 2010 -> 04:41 PM
|- - Balta1701   QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Dec 13, 2010 -> 0...   Dec 13, 2010 -> 04:46 PM
|- - Jenksismybitch   QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Dec 13, 2010 -> 04...   Dec 14, 2010 -> 08:37 AM
|- - Balta1701   QUOTE (Jenksismyb**** @ Dec 14, 2010 -...   Dec 14, 2010 -> 08:41 AM
|- - Jenksismybitch   QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Dec 14, 2010 -> 08...   Dec 14, 2010 -> 08:45 AM
||- - Balta1701   QUOTE (Jenksismyb**** @ Dec 14, 2010 -...   Dec 14, 2010 -> 08:47 AM
||- - Jenksismybitch   QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Dec 14, 2010 -> 08...   Dec 14, 2010 -> 08:50 AM
||- - Balta1701   QUOTE (Jenksismyb**** @ Dec 14, 2010 -...   Dec 14, 2010 -> 08:51 AM
||- - Balta1701   QUOTE (Jenksismyb**** @ Dec 14, 2010 -...   Dec 14, 2010 -> 08:56 AM
||- - Jenksismybitch   QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Dec 14, 2010 -> 08...   Dec 14, 2010 -> 09:02 AM
||- - Balta1701   QUOTE (Jenksismyb**** @ Dec 14, 2010 -...   Dec 14, 2010 -> 11:28 AM
||- - kapkomet   QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Dec 14, 2010 -> 11...   Dec 14, 2010 -> 08:21 PM
||- - Balta1701   QUOTE (kapkomet @ Dec 14, 2010 -> 09...   Dec 15, 2010 -> 08:00 AM
||- - southsider2k5   QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Dec 15, 2010 -> 08...   Dec 15, 2010 -> 08:10 AM
||- - Balta1701   QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Dec 15, 2010 -...   Dec 15, 2010 -> 08:14 AM
||- - southsider2k5   QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Dec 15, 2010 -> 08...   Dec 15, 2010 -> 08:17 AM
||- - Balta1701   QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Dec 15, 2010 -...   Dec 15, 2010 -> 08:18 AM
|- - Jenksismybitch   QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Dec 14, 2010 -> 08...   Dec 14, 2010 -> 08:47 AM
|- - Balta1701   QUOTE (Jenksismyb**** @ Dec 14, 2010 -...   Dec 14, 2010 -> 08:48 AM
- - kapkomet   I know, there's always something evil (EEEEEEE...   Dec 13, 2010 -> 09:18 PM
|- - Balta1701   QUOTE (kapkomet @ Dec 13, 2010 -> 10...   Dec 14, 2010 -> 07:59 AM
- - Jenksismybitch   oops, sorry, it was your link, not strangesox...   Dec 14, 2010 -> 08:54 AM
- - Y2HH   Thread has devolved into pointlessness.   Dec 14, 2010 -> 01:22 PM
- - Balta1701   QUOTE I realize it can get tiresome to see folks l...   Dec 15, 2010 -> 12:11 PM
|- - Jenksismybitch   QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Dec 15, 2010 -> 12...   Dec 15, 2010 -> 12:42 PM
|- - Balta1701   QUOTE (Jenksismyb**** @ Dec 15, 2010 -...   Dec 15, 2010 -> 12:54 PM
||- - Jenksismybitch   QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Dec 15, 2010 -> 12...   Dec 15, 2010 -> 01:31 PM
||- - G&T   QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Dec 15, 2010 -> 01...   Dec 15, 2010 -> 02:03 PM
|- - Tex   QUOTE (Jenksismyb**** @ Dec 15, 2010 -...   Dec 15, 2010 -> 01:24 PM
|- - Jenksismybitch   QUOTE (Tex @ Dec 15, 2010 -> 01:2...   Dec 15, 2010 -> 01:35 PM
- - Balta1701   The government infringes on your freedom to buy an...   Dec 15, 2010 -> 01:36 PM
|- - Jenksismybitch   QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Dec 15, 2010 -> 01...   Dec 15, 2010 -> 01:37 PM
|- - Balta1701   QUOTE (Jenksismyb**** @ Dec 15, 2010 -...   Dec 15, 2010 -> 01:42 PM
|- - Jenksismybitch   QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Dec 15, 2010 -> 01...   Dec 15, 2010 -> 02:01 PM
|- - Balta1701   QUOTE (Jenksismyb**** @ Dec 15, 2010 -...   Dec 15, 2010 -> 02:06 PM
|- - Jenksismybitch   QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Dec 15, 2010 -> 02...   Dec 15, 2010 -> 02:14 PM
|- - StrangeSox   QUOTE (Jenksismyb**** @ Dec 15, 2010 -...   Dec 15, 2010 -> 02:22 PM
|- - Jenksismybitch   QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Dec 15, 2010 -> 0...   Dec 15, 2010 -> 02:24 PM
|- - StrangeSox   QUOTE (Jenksismyb**** @ Dec 15, 2010 -...   Dec 15, 2010 -> 02:33 PM
|- - Balta1701   QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Dec 15, 2010 -> 0...   Dec 15, 2010 -> 02:37 PM
|- - G&T   QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Dec 15, 2010 -> 0...   Dec 15, 2010 -> 02:42 PM
- - Balta1701   To elaborate...here is the direct quote from the j...   Dec 15, 2010 -> 01:58 PM
|- - Jenksismybitch   QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Dec 15, 2010 -> 01...   Dec 15, 2010 -> 02:03 PM
- - Balta1701   Let me switch constitutional law professors here. ...   Dec 15, 2010 -> 02:11 PM
|- - Jenksismybitch   QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Dec 15, 2010 -> 02...   Dec 15, 2010 -> 02:16 PM
- - Balta1701   For one more, here's a summary of an early 20t...   Dec 15, 2010 -> 02:18 PM
|- - G&T   QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Dec 15, 2010 -> 03...   Dec 15, 2010 -> 02:22 PM
- - Balta1701   Have you actually made an argument against that lo...   Dec 15, 2010 -> 02:27 PM
|- - Jenksismybitch   QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Dec 15, 2010 -> 02...   Dec 15, 2010 -> 02:35 PM
|- - Balta1701   QUOTE (Jenksismyb**** @ Dec 15, 2010 -...   Dec 15, 2010 -> 02:38 PM
|- - Jenksismybitch   QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Dec 15, 2010 -> 02...   Dec 15, 2010 -> 03:02 PM
- - StrangeSox   Sorry, I was referring to Jenks' posts, not th...   Dec 15, 2010 -> 02:46 PM
- - StrangeSox   Would UHC be similarly Unconstitutional under this...   Dec 15, 2010 -> 02:51 PM
|- - Balta1701   QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Dec 15, 2010 -> 0...   Dec 15, 2010 -> 02:55 PM
- - Rex Kicka**   Thought this was interesting: http://blogs.forbes...   Jan 7, 2011 -> 12:55 PM
- - StrangeSox   REPEAL NOW.   Jan 7, 2011 -> 12:58 PM
|- - Y2HH   QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Jan 7, 2011 -> 12...   Jan 8, 2011 -> 04:25 PM
- - Balta1701   I found this an interesting bit of research from F...   Jan 21, 2011 -> 08:32 AM
|- - BigSqwert   QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jan 21, 2011 -> 08...   Jan 21, 2011 -> 08:43 AM
|- - Jenksismybitch   QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jan 21, 2011 -> 08...   Jan 21, 2011 -> 09:02 AM
- - Y2HH   NM, re-read this a few times... Meh. Talk about ...   Jan 21, 2011 -> 09:07 AM
- - Jenksismybitch   Anyone know the story behind this waiver/exemption...   Jan 27, 2011 -> 11:57 AM
|- - NorthSideSox72   QUOTE (Jenksismyb**** @ Jan 27, 2011 -...   Jan 27, 2011 -> 12:00 PM
- - Balta1701   QUOTE A federal judge in Florida has struck down a...   Jan 31, 2011 -> 02:15 PM
- - Soxbadger   Not sure how that ruling would work, unless they a...   Jan 31, 2011 -> 02:27 PM
- - Balta1701   Direct quote from the decision: QUOTE It is diffic...   Jan 31, 2011 -> 02:57 PM
- - Soxbadger   A quote like that makes me sad to be in the same p...   Jan 31, 2011 -> 03:26 PM
|- - BigSqwert   QUOTE (Soxbadger @ Jan 31, 2011 -> 03...   Jan 31, 2011 -> 03:27 PM
|- - StrangeSox   QUOTE (Soxbadger @ Jan 31, 2011 -> 03...   Jan 31, 2011 -> 03:53 PM
- - NorthSideSox72   QUOTE (Soxbadger @ Jan 31, 2011 -> 02...   Jan 31, 2011 -> 03:38 PM
- - Soxbadger   QUOTE There is nothing bogus about it - it is a fu...   Jan 31, 2011 -> 04:05 PM
|- - NorthSideSox72   QUOTE (Soxbadger @ Jan 31, 2011 -> 04...   Jan 31, 2011 -> 04:12 PM
|- - Balta1701   QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ Jan 31, 2011 -...   Jan 31, 2011 -> 05:31 PM
|- - southsider2k5   QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jan 31, 2011 -> 05...   Jan 31, 2011 -> 08:01 PM
|- - NorthSideSox72   QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jan 31, 2011 -...   Jan 31, 2011 -> 08:22 PM
- - Balta1701   Btw, just so you don't think I'm going to ...   Jan 31, 2011 -> 04:07 PM
- - Soxbadger   QUOTE How can they possibly make this related to a...   Jan 31, 2011 -> 04:20 PM
- - mr_genius   The health insurance mandate has to be a tax if a...   Jan 31, 2011 -> 08:27 PM
|- - NorthSideSox72   QUOTE (mr_genius @ Jan 31, 2011 -> 08...   Jan 31, 2011 -> 08:29 PM
|- - Balta1701   QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ Jan 31, 2011 -...   Feb 1, 2011 -> 07:37 AM
|- - NorthSideSox72   QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Feb 1, 2011 -> 07...   Feb 1, 2011 -> 07:43 AM
|- - Balta1701   QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ Feb 1, 2011 -...   Feb 1, 2011 -> 07:46 AM
|- - NorthSideSox72   QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Feb 1, 2011 -> 07...   Feb 1, 2011 -> 07:54 AM
|- - Balta1701   QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ Feb 1, 2011 -...   Feb 1, 2011 -> 08:04 AM
|- - NorthSideSox72   QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Feb 1, 2011 -> 08...   Feb 1, 2011 -> 08:11 AM
|- - Balta1701   QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ Feb 1, 2011 -...   Feb 1, 2011 -> 08:20 AM
- - StrangeSox   Just give us single-payer and be done with all thi...   Jan 31, 2011 -> 08:31 PM
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