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bigruss22
Apparently the A's have acquired Matt Holliday, as of now details are not available. From Mlbtraderumors.com sourced Jon Heyman from SI.com
TCQ
QUOTE (bigruss22 @ Nov 10, 2008 -> 01:32 PM) *
Apparently the A's have acquired Matt Holliday, as of now details are not available. From Mlbtraderumors.com sourced Jon Heyman from SI.com


Hey wouldnt it be funny if they sent geo to the rocks and he made his way back to chicago in a willy taveras deal????

I would literally laugh, because sometimes you have to to keep from crying.
SoxFan562004
that would be interesting. He's a great player, but the A's aren't that close to contending and they wouldn't resign him, wonder if it's part of a 3-way
Thunderbolt

The A's have the right idea. They're not falling for this Willy Taveras crap, unless its as a throwin. I have a feeling Matt Murton might be going rocky mountain high which i'd find hilarious.
Balta1701
QUOTE (Thunderbolt @ Nov 10, 2008 -> 11:42 AM) *
The A's have the right idea. They're not falling for this Willy Taveras crap, unless its as a throwin. I have a feeling Matt Murton might be going rocky mountain high which i'd find hilarious.

He would be an ideal guy for the Rockies to target. Decent hitter on his own, but also a guy who could be REALLY helped by playing in Coors.

I wonder if Chris Carter or Aaron Cunningham winds up in this.
bigruss22
QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Nov 10, 2008 -> 02:44 PM) *
He would be an ideal guy for the Rockies to target.

I wonder if Chris Carter or Aaron Cunningham winds up in this.

I dont see Carter going there because he is more of a DH, but he is such a great hitter maybe Colorado thought he is worth it. I could def. see Cunningham being involved or Gio.
Tony82087
Wow, Holliday has to be pissed. FA next year, and this is probably the last place he wanted to go to pad his numbers.
Fantl916
QUOTE (Tony82087 @ Nov 10, 2008 -> 11:48 AM) *
Wow, Holliday has to be pissed. FA next year, and this is probably the last place he wanted to go to pad his numbers.


I'd be inpartial if i were him. Have you seen the pitching in that division? It's terrible... besides the Angles, Seattle and Texas have absolutely horrible staffs... the NL west doesnt have the same problem...
kyyle23
Greg Smith is rumored to be part of the package going to the Rox
witesoxfan
There's almost no way Holliday won't be a type A free agent, so that has to be part of it as well.
bigruss22
QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Nov 10, 2008 -> 04:03 PM) *
There's almost no way Holliday won't be a type A free agent, so that has to be part of it as well.

Im guessing three prospects, each one a quality prospect but not a stud, like Smith, Gonzalez, Carter, and maybe a player like Sweeney/Murton (young guys not necessarily a prospect, and im not saying all of those guys, just some combination or a package of guys like that)
DBAHO
QUOTE
ESPN.com reports that the Matt Holliday-to-Oakland deal, which is still pending physicals, includes left-hander Greg Smith.

It makes sense that either Smith or Sean Gallagher was going to be involved. The Rockies want major league-ready talent, and the A's probably preferred going that route than touching their top prospects anyway. No word yet on whether Huston Street is in the mix. According to ESPN.com, there are final details still to be worked out, but the trade has been agreed to.


My guess is Street + Smith plus another good prospect.

Not a bad move by the A's I think. They've got enough good young players ATM, and they can either spin Holliday off at the deadline or get the 2 draft picks for him.

His OPS will certainly come down away from Coors though.
bigruss22
"Ken Rosenthal chimes in. The deal may not be finalized for about 48 hours. Players discussed over the weekend: Carlos Gonzalez, Huston Street, and Smith. Rosenthal says the A's do not plan to flip Holliday or trade him in July."

-MLBtraderumors.com

Hmm, if the A's are planning on competing next year I would think they would need Street, and Gonzalez is a pretty highly touted prospect, seems like the A's are sending over more than I thought they would.
Balta1701
QUOTE (bigruss22 @ Nov 10, 2008 -> 12:14 PM) *
Hmm, if the A's are planning on competing next year I would think they would need Street, and Gonzalez is a pretty highly touted prospect, seems like the A's are sending over more than I thought they would.

The A's are pretty confident right now that they don't need Street, I'd say. Street wasn't any good this year anyway, and they had a couple of other bullpen guys step up and start to fill that role.
DBAHO
If Gonzalez is included, I think the Rockies have done pretty well here.

They get a replacement for Fuentes, Smith gives them another decent young SP, and Gonzalez could explode in that environment.
Kalapse
.880 OPS from Holliday next year, I'm calling it now.
bigruss22
QUOTE (Kalapse @ Nov 10, 2008 -> 04:19 PM) *
.880 OPS from Holliday next year, I'm calling it now.

That seems pretty fair considering the difference in parks.

Side Note:
He had 28 stolen bases last year, with only 2 CS. Thats a nice bonus to his stats
Jenks Heat
The full Fox Sports story has the A's increasing their payroll to $80M and going after Furcal for short and leadoff.
Balta1701
QUOTE (Jenks Heat @ Nov 10, 2008 -> 12:33 PM) *
The full Fox Sports story has the A's increasing their payroll to $80M and going after Furcal for short and leadoff.

Well, that would be a fairly silly way for the A's to spend their money.
Balta1701
ESPN.com stirs the pot with a couple more potential names. Man, it's like Oakland's whole system is up in the air.
QUOTE
Pitcher Greg Smith, who was 7-16 with a 4.16 ERA last season for the A's, is one of the players in the deal, a source confirmed to Crasnick. Among the other players who have been discussed were left-handed pitcher Brett Anderson and outfielders Ryan Sweeney and Carlos Gonzalez.

Oakland has been weighing offers for closer Huston Street, but it's uncertain if Street is part of the Holliday deal. The Rockies have a need for late-inning relief with Brian Fuentes about to leave through free agency.

Ryan Sweeney could look really good in Colorado also.
scenario
Tim Brown on Yahoo Sports said an A's source says it's Street, Greg Smith, and Carlos Gonzales.

Link

Kalapse
QUOTE (scenario @ Nov 10, 2008 -> 03:49 PM) *
Tim Brown on Yahoo Sports said an A's source says it's Street, Greg Smith, and Carlos Gonzales.

That would be an incredible package. If this is the case Rockies fans should be quite pleased with the return.
Tony82087
QUOTE (scenario @ Nov 10, 2008 -> 03:49 PM) *
Tim Brown on Yahoo Sports said an A's source says it's Street, Greg Smith, and Carlos Gonzales.

Thats a s***load to give up for 1 year.
kyyle23
QUOTE (Tony82087 @ Nov 10, 2008 -> 03:01 PM) *
Thats a s***load to give up for 1 year.


This is Billy Beane we are talking about here, last year he gutted the team for prospects, so he has a few to spare

I wonder how Beane would fare with a team where he didnt have to slice and sell every other year.
Steve9347
That career .803 OPS on the road for Holliday is hilarious.
RockRaines
QUOTE (Kalapse @ Nov 10, 2008 -> 03:00 PM) *
That would be an incredible package. If this is the case Rockies fans should be quite pleased with the return.

Yup, a pretty good haul, Beane makes up for his rapeage by hendry. Seriously though, the Cubs arent even offering this much for Peavy who is young and signed to a long term deal.
rangercal
QUOTE (Steve9347 @ Nov 10, 2008 -> 05:19 PM) *
That career .803 OPS on the road for Holliday is hilarious.


good point. I'd be worried about trading the farm for any rockies slugger. How about buying low on Jimenez or Francis instead?
daa84
QUOTE (Steve9347 @ Nov 10, 2008 -> 04:19 PM) *
That career .803 OPS on the road for Holliday is hilarious.

.818, .859, .891 on the road inthe last three, years....trending upwards....he's also refined his on base skills and should be in the prime of his career...add into the fact that they should get draft picks, and have replacements in gio and potentially anderson or cahill by the end of the year for smith and street...this is a nice deal for the A's.....colorado did pretty well in return, though i have my doubts about each of those guys they got
WhiteSoxfan1986
Horrible, horrible, horrible trade for the A's.
Thunderbolt
QUOTE (WhiteSoxfan1986 @ Nov 10, 2008 -> 04:47 PM) *
Horrible, horrible, horrible trade for the A's.

So, the A’s just traded a solid #3 starter, a guy with the potential to be the next Carlos Beltran, and an above-average Reliever for one-year of a good hitter playing in an excellent hitters park. I love Billy Beane, but this I don’t get.
Dick Allen
QUOTE (Thunderbolt @ Nov 10, 2008 -> 03:56 PM) *
So, the A’s just traded a solid #3 starter, a guy with the potential to be the next Carlos Beltran, and an above-average Reliever for one-year of a good hitter playing in an excellent hitters park. I love Billy Beane, but this I don’t get.

Street sucks. Gonzalez may be a good one. I don't know how Smith is a solid #3 yet. Its funny how on this board Carlos Gomez will never be any good and Gonzalez who had worse numbers is going to be a star. They either sign Holliday or flip him at the deadline if they aren't contending. It could be a disaster for Oakland, but for 2009, they received the best player in the deal.
RockRaines
QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Nov 10, 2008 -> 04:01 PM) *
Street sucks. Gonzalez may be a good one. I don't know how Smith is a solid #3 yet. Its funny how on this board Carlos Gomez will never be any good and Gonzalez who had worse numbers is going to be a star. They either sign Holliday or flip him at the deadline if they aren't contending. It could be a disaster for Oakland, but for 2009, they received the best player in the deal.

Oh, Beane is flipping Holliday to a contender, you better bet that, or he's living off the draft picks. Its a pretty good move by him IMO.
Steve9347
QUOTE (rangercal @ Nov 10, 2008 -> 03:33 PM) *
good point. I'd be worried about trading the farm for any rockies slugger. How about buying low on Jimenez or Francis instead?

Francis would be awesome.
almagest
QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Nov 10, 2008 -> 04:01 PM) *
Street sucks. Gonzalez may be a good one. I don't know how Smith is a solid #3 yet. Its funny how on this board Carlos Gomez will never be any good and Gonzalez who had worse numbers is going to be a star. They either sign Holliday or flip him at the deadline if they aren't contending. It could be a disaster for Oakland, but for 2009, they received the best player in the deal.
He basically is Carlos Gomez -- talent, but a long long way to go to realize it.

I don't see Holliday putting up an OPS much over .800 in a better league, with better pitching, while playing in the least hitter-friendly parks outside of Chavez Ravine and Petco. Unless Beane plans on spinning him off for something else, or really knows what he wants to do with those comp. picks, I think this trade is a solid win for Colorado.
Chisoxfn
That is a nice return for the Rockies. I definitely would be down on picking up Jimenez or Francis.
chunk23
I think Gonzalez going to the Rockies will hasten Tavares' departure.

I really hope we don't trade for him.
GreatScott82
QUOTE (chunk23 @ Nov 10, 2008 -> 04:44 PM) *
I think Gonzalez going to the Rockies will hasten Tavares' departure.

I really hope we don't trade for him.

Im okay with Tavares hitting 9th and stealing 70 for us next year.
Thunderbolt
QUOTE (almagest @ Nov 10, 2008 -> 05:42 PM) *
He basically is Carlos Gomez -- talent, but a long long way to go to realize it.

No, Gomez's upside doesn't even come close to what Gonzalez's. Gonzalez is a legit five-tool guy. He was the centerpiece of that Haren deal. Gomez's will probably top out and about 15 hr's per year, Cargo has abour 35 in him. Gomez is a plus-defender with great speed, Gonzalez combines these elements with a bat that allowed the D-Backs to be comfortable with trading Quentin.
chunk23
Street is probably going to be flipped quickly.
http://www.sportsline.com/mcc/blogs/entry/6270335/11618874

Both Street and Tavares are players KW has gone after in the past. I'm not liking the chances of the Sox going after them. Sure Tavares can steal bases but his OBP is way too low.
nitetrain8601
If Gonzalez really is that good, then the real losers in this are the Arizona DBacks. I mean, I'm a huge Dan Haren fan, but giving up Gonzalez(potential superstar) and Quentin(potential superstar), they are dumb. Quentin as we have seen is a stud. Gonzalez from all accounts is a stud. And by stud, I mean, MVP contender types.
almagest
QUOTE (Thunderbolt @ Nov 10, 2008 -> 04:56 PM) *
No, Gomez's upside doesn't even come close to what Gonzalez's. Gonzalez is a legit five-tool guy. He was the centerpiece of that Haren deal. Gomez's will probably top out and about 15 hr's per year, Cargo has abour 35 in him. Gomez is a plus-defender with great speed, Gonzalez combines these elements with a bat that allowed the D-Backs to be comfortable with trading Quentin.
Like I said, they both have talent, and are very young, but have a long way to go to live up to projections. Does Gonzalez have a far higher upside? Yes. Does that mean he'll be better? No. I'm also curious why a guy with Gonzalez's talent would be traded twice in 2 years.
Balta1701
QUOTE (nitetrain8601 @ Nov 10, 2008 -> 03:14 PM) *
If Gonzalez really is that good, then the real losers in this are the Arizona DBacks. I mean, I'm a huge Dan Haren fan, but giving up Gonzalez(potential superstar) and Quentin(potential superstar), they are dumb. Quentin as we have seen is a stud. Gonzalez from all accounts is a stud. And by stud, I mean, MVP contender types.

And Chris Carter. And Aaron Cunningham.
daa84
QUOTE (nitetrain8601 @ Nov 10, 2008 -> 06:14 PM) *
If Gonzalez really is that good, then the real losers in this are the Arizona DBacks. I mean, I'm a huge Dan Haren fan, but giving up Gonzalez(potential superstar) and Quentin(potential superstar), they are dumb. Quentin as we have seen is a stud. Gonzalez from all accounts is a stud. And by stud, I mean, MVP contender types.

oakland got an absolute haul in that deal.....Eveland and Smith were basically solid rotation guys with low 4 ERAs....they also got Gonzalez, Aaron Cunningham (who had a really great year and has established himself as maybe as good of a prospect as gonzalez) Chris Carter (who is one of the best power prospects in baseball...39 bombs last year) and even best of all Brett Anderson who is probably a top 20 pitching prospect in baseball
scenario
The Denver Post seems to be confirming Street/Gonzales/Smith.

I find it very interesting to read the Rockies fans comments about the trade.

I'm guessing most don't follow the AL too closely because there's alot of people who hate the deal.
Wanne
QUOTE (Thunderbolt @ Nov 10, 2008 -> 03:56 PM) *
So, the A’s just traded a solid #3 starter, a guy with the potential to be the next Carlos Beltran, and an above-average Reliever for one-year of a good hitter playing in an excellent hitters park. I love Billy Beane, but this I don’t get.


I'm with you...I really don't get this from the A's perspective. Seems to go against Beane's MO. Not saying what he's giving up are sure things...but basically for one year and getting a couple of picks back. Unless he is planning on flipping him...
scenario
I just spent some time on an A's board looking for their fans' perspective.

Interesting...

Most felt it was a fair deal... and they're pleased with A's management stepping up and adding an all-star caliber offensive player.

The only player who triggered any potential regret was Gonzales... but the consensus seems to be that the team is pretty deep in outfield prospects and so he was expendable.
Wanne
QUOTE (scenario @ Nov 10, 2008 -> 05:59 PM) *
I just spent some time on an A's board looking for their fans' perspective.

Interesting...

Most felt it was a fair deal... and they're pleased with A's management stepping up and adding an all-star caliber offensive player.

The only player who triggered any potential regret was Gonzales... but the consensus seems to be that the team is pretty deep in outfield prospects and so he was expendable.


I can understand them being pleased with it now...but what about when he walks next year? I'm still having trouble seeing the overall plan by Beane here...unless he plans on ponying up the dough to keep him (which I highly doubt).
daa84
i think some of you guys are simply writing off holliday as a coors phenomenon....certainly his numbers are helped by coors...but this guy had nearly a .900 OPS away from coors last year, and an obp well over .400 on the year, and is only 28 years old...add in to that he had nearly 30 SBs which would have easily been the high on the white sox....

besides if we are gonna knock holliday for his home stats as being largely due to playing 81 games at coors...dont forget that he played roughly 50 games in pitchers paradises of Petco, dodger stadium and AT&T
Kalapse
QUOTE (daa84 @ Nov 10, 2008 -> 07:07 PM) *
i think some of you guys are simply writing off holliday as a coors phenomenon....certainly his numbers are helped by coors...but this guy had nearly a .900 OPS away from coors last year, and an obp well over .400 on the year, and is only 28 years old...add in to that he had nearly 30 SBs which would have easily been the high on the white sox....

besides if we are gonna knock holliday for his home stats as being largely due to playing 81 games at coors...dont forget that he played roughly 50 games in pitchers paradises of Petco, dodger stadium and AT&T

I crunched the numbers a few months ago, I'm sure a search on Google could turn them up, according to my research Matt Holliday hit nearly as poorly in the ballparks outside of the NL West as he did in the pitcher's parks of his home division. Things may have changed over the past few months but earlier this season you couldn't use that excuse legitimately. Matt Holliday is a good hitter (I have him down for a high .800 OPS in a pitcher's park next season) and possibly a better all-around ballpayer than he's given credit for but I don't believe he's one of the best hitters of his generation despite what his overall numbers might say.
Wanne
QUOTE (Kalapse @ Nov 10, 2008 -> 06:40 PM) *
I crunched the numbers a few months ago, I'm sure a search on Google could turn them up, according to my research Matt Holliday hit nearly as poorly in the ballparks outside of the NL West as he did in the pitcher's parks of his home division. Things may have changed over the past few months but earlier this season you couldn't use that excuse legitimately. Matt Holliday is a good hitter (I have him down for a high .800 OPS in a pitcher's park next season) and possibly a better all-around ballpayer than he's given credit for but I don't believe he's one of the best hitters of his generation despite what his overall numbers might say.


Good hitter...yes. But I think his defense makes Swish look like a Gold Glover IMO.
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