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  1. As a former Rick Hahn stan, I blasted and ridiculed Kenny Williams at every turn. Every bad choice made by the organization was Kenny's fault, every good one was Rick. Looking back after a decade of control, it's fair to say that the White Sox would be better off with Kenny Williams in charge and it's not even close. Kenny took over the GM role in 2000. He held that job until 2012. In the 12 years that Kenny Williams was in control of the White Sox, the White Sox were: 1109-998 (.526 WP%). They made the playoffs three times and won the World Series once. Here's the kicker though, under the current playoff format, they would have made the playoffs SIX times in 13 years. The White Sox had three losing seasons in his tenure, with the worst being a 72 win season and two 79 win seasons. For all intents and purposes, Kenny Williams kept the White Sox competitive year in and year out, on a limited budget much of the time, and with a minimal investment in the farm system and international signings. Kenny worked around his owner who didn't give him the resources and made season after season exciting. Rick Hahn has been at the helm from 2012/13-2022. In Rick Hahn's tenure, the White Sox are: 695-814 (.460 WP%). They made the playoffs twice, one in the COVID shortened season. They have had TWO winnings seasons and 7 losing seasons. They had four seasons with 72 wins or fewer (that was Kenny's worst season in charge), and this was with a bigger investment in international players, a larger investment in technology and the farm system, and a top 5 payroll this past season. Rick Hahn is a contract negotiator and that's it; he's not a baseball guy. He doesn't know how to build a team to compete, and he doesn't know how to maintain any form of sustained competitiveness. While Tony LaRussa obviously needs to be fired, I wanted to right a wrong here today. The blame for this season is on Tony AND Rick. His insistence on paying bullpen arms and investing his resources there is inexcusable. Allowing 2B and RF to be in the bottom three in baseball in WAR when he knew it was a weakness is unforgivable. The White Sox weren't unlucky, they were poorly managed and badly prepared for the expected outcomes of their players in regards to health and longevity. Kenny Williams wasn't the best GM in baseball, but he was a guy who put a competitive product on the field nearly every year for over a decade. He would have made the playoffs nearly 50% of his seasons under the new format, and truly only had one atrocious season. Kenny was better than Hahn, and it's not close. The Hahn excuse makers are some of the weirdest people in baseball to me. They are still making excuses for that bozo - blaming Kenny and TLR for his failures, yet Kenny Williams was 100% more successful than Rick Hahn as a GM, so if anything... we should be giving credit for the good moves to Kenny and the bad ones to Slick Rick; because criticism slides right off Rick.
    17 points
  2. Injury prone players getting injured is not insane bad luck. It's an expected outcome. If you're going to build a team based on a core of fragile players that can't stay on the field, then you at least better build up insane depth. Unfortunately the Sox depth is among the worst in baseball.
    14 points
  3. Never should have taken the job in the first place, eat a bag of ____s Tony ... that is all
    14 points
  4. If Hahn doesn't go out the door also, this means nothing.
    13 points
  5. Carlos Rodon is currently 1st in fWAR amongst all pitchers. Rick Hahn passed on offering him a QO, which would have secured him for the 2023 season at $18.5M or resulted in the addition of a compensation pick. Instead, this was his actual plan: Signed Kendall Graveman to 3/$24M - 0.6 fWAR Signed Joe Kelly to 2/$17M - 0.4 fWAR Signed Leury Garcia to 3/$16.5M - (1.1) fWAR Signed Josh Harrison to 1/$5.5M - 1.3 fWAR Signed Vince Velasquez to 1/$3M - 0.2 fWAR Acquired AJ Pollock ($11.5M salary) - 0.7 fWAR Acquired Reese McGuire ($0.4 salary) - 0.4 fWAR So for a total of ~$42M in spend for the 2023 season, Rick Hahn was able to acquire 2.5 fWAR. That’s $16.8M per win and in areas that usually provide the least marginal value. Things look far worse when you consider Rodon would have only cost $3.2M per win and would have required only 44% of those funds. Also, those ROI figures don’t even account for the following: The $36M in commitments beyond the 2023 season to three guys who combined for negative fWAR this year (Graveman, Kelly, & Garcia) The $13M we’re on the hook for now for a 35 year old OF who has a poor track record of health and who no longer appears to be able to hit RHP The fact Joe Kelly was going to be severely limited for the first two months of the season and still gave him one of the biggest reliever contracts in FA The “pitching depth” that Hahn prioritized coming out of the lockout have a +6 ERA (Kelly) & +5 ERA (VV) TLDR - Rick Hahn is really fucking bad at his job and needs to be fired ASAP.
    11 points
  6. Wow, I never thought when I started this little thing called Today's Game Thread that I would have the honor to do it all again tomorrow. I'd like to personally thank each and every one of you that made this thing happen: @Balta1701 Thank You @ScooterMcGuire Thank You @BossanoverallsThank You @HighlandThank You @pcqThank You @Harry ChappasThank You @A-Train to 35thThank You @Chick MercedesThank You @Lip Man 1Thank You @JoshPRThank You @The Kids Can PlayThank You @whitesoxwinThank You @fathomThank You @maloney.adamThank You @TnetennbaThank You @Harold's Leg LiftThank You @DashFanThank You @Bob SacamanoThank You @South Side Hit MenThank You @SouthSideGeorgiaThank You @JTBThank You @chw42Thank You @cuban_sammichesThank You @The GrinderThank You @T R UThank You @caulfield12Thank You @ChiSox59Thank You
    10 points
  7. The Angels and Red Sox were the only non-playoff teams to spend more money per win than the White Sox. Payroll is not the issue. Hahn's horrible decision making and inability to understand how to build a baseball team is the issue. We have a long track resord of this.
    10 points
  8. https://www.milb.com/scores/chicago-white-sox/2022-09-28 https://www.mlb.com/prospects/stats/affiliates?teamId=145&date=09/28/2022 Well everyone, or at least those few who are left, we have reached the final game of the minor league season. Thanks to everyone who contributed this year and hopefully better times are ahead. I have to honestly admit that it has probably been my most frustrating year following the Sox in over 50 seasons and I am ready for this year to be over. Thanks to the ST owners/admin/mods who entrusted me to the FS board. To all, be well and go Sox.
    9 points
  9. Can you blame them? A manager they liked got fired and replaced with a 77 year old alcoholic. When they won 93 games despite him, their front office gave their worst player a 3 year deal, traded for an outfielder who can't hit RHP and isn't that good in the outfield, and signed a reliever who was injured. The hitters are being coached by someone who is coaching them counter to their natural talents, and their training staff can't keep them healthy. Why should they give 100% when nobody else in the organization is?
    9 points
  10. You know I honestly think now they have a chance to lose the last 15 in a row to close the season. Then next year they have to open at Houston and play 10 of the first 14 on the road (if memory serves). You could be looking at a historic losing streak!!!!! One other note about tonight, the Sox have the most expensive bullpen in MLB history, yet every guy who came out of the pen tonight had an ERA of at LEAST 4.6. That's some "brilliant" G.M. the Sox have isn't it? if Hahn is retained (I'd bet money he is) the first question he should be asked by the media is, "Rick, with respect, based on your 10 year track record why should any Sox fan trust your judgement moving forward?" I'd love to hear him answer that one.
    8 points
  11. White Sox are the second healthiest team in the AL Central. White Sox fans: “this is insanely bad luck it will never be this bad again”.
    8 points
  12. Count me as thrilled that Tony is completely out, and not being kicked upstairs. Remove the tumor, let the body heal.
    8 points
  13. rewarding Andrus for his play really is how you end up paying Leury Garcia 3 yrs 15 million.
    8 points
  14. Talk s%*# get hit. The Sox thought they could cruise and they were wrong
    8 points
  15. While I will not doubt Tony has a pacemaker, and it may have had some issues, I do think there is more to this story than that. There are hundreds of thousands of people with pacemakers. They aren’t told to immediately quit their job, but it’s still OK to sort of do your job, like Tony was watching games and consulting with Cairo. But I will take it. 2 years probably wasted. At least one for sure. Get someone who actually doesn’t think results are too easy.
    7 points
  16. I'm in the minority, but I think TA should be traded. I've had just about enough of his change the game attitude towards baseball. He should be the one changing his game to become a better defensive SS.
    7 points
  17. I feel like Tim could have said the exact same thing and people here would be saying "Jerry, pay this man his money!".
    7 points
  18. Id prefer someone that is under 60, ideally under 50. We don’t need to run it back with an old man.
    6 points
  19. Jesus, Ron Washington is 70 and hasn't managed in 8 years. Let's try for something better than that.
    6 points
  20. I actually don't hate the trade TA idea. It just depends on what the offers look like. TA should have a good bit of value, he's not a good SS, and I am speculating here, but the whole ASG announcement thing and clear lack of leadership in clubhouse this season makes me think he may not be favorite in the clubhouse. If you can get a nice return for him, I'd be open to it...he only has 2 years of control. That being said, my price to move TA would be very high, I am not just moving him to the highest bidder. You also need to find a SS now in that scenarioideally one that can field their position. We all know the Sox won't be in the running for the high end FAs. Also, your avoid all NL players take continues to be just an awful one.
    6 points
  21. Opt out of Anderson? My lord, what a terrible take.
    6 points
  22. He hasn't been the same since The Fridge got a TD in the '85 Superbowl and he didn't.
    6 points
  23. I wouldn't put it past him to say so long to this sorry organization and take the buyout. If he takes the 5 mil and signs with a contending organization for 5-8 million he'll be in a better situation and will make nearly the same money. Who wouldn't take the buyout to get themselves away from the Chicago White Sox.
    6 points
  24. It would be the most JR thing ever to intentionally blow up a decent team by sticking Tony as its manager, just so he could rebuild again and save a few bucks.
    6 points
  25. Here's the plan...hear me out...SELL THE TEAM.
    6 points
  26. Yeah I'm definitely hoping Cleveland gets swept in the first round now.
    6 points
  27. IT hurts, hurts really bad. I would say bulletin board material for next year but I don't think anybody on the sox cares.
    6 points
  28. I didn’t get too much past Sheets and Vaughn playing any outfield next year- or ever again. But I appreciate your enthusiasm.
    6 points
  29. Press conference is at 4 pm tomorrow and will be televised. Hope there are more retirements announced.
    5 points
  30. I just want them to conduct a correct process. Interview a diverse group, find someone who actually gets along with the GM some of the time and works together with them rather than against them.
    5 points
  31. 42 years of one mind-numbing, franchise-crippling decision after another. If you take a step back and have a holistic review of the four plus decades of ownership by Reinsdorf, it’s beyond appalling. He’s really been a horrible owner. It would be a dream come true if Reinsdorf joined his dear pal tomorrow and surprised us all with the announcement he was selling the club and walking away as well. Won’t happen, but it’s fun to dream about.
    5 points
  32. He is 100% correct. And good for him for saying it.
    5 points
  33. I'm fucking exhausted of the offseason already and the Sox have 6 games left.
    5 points
  34. I may be out in left field (pun intended 😁) on this, but I think Anderson goes. He’s the guy that should get the best return. Ok, everyone call me names.
    5 points
  35. For the life of me I can't figure out why the Sox are playing big leaguers this last week and a half. Just shut down this wretched team and let the minor leaguers play and lose instead of these quitters.
    5 points
  36. You just got yourself a job selling Sox whole and partial season ticket packages.
    5 points
  37. This franchise is its own worst enemy. They have earned the ire of every fan. The benefit of the doubt is gone. Look, I could even live with Cleveland beating this team, and beating them handily. But when you roll over like a little b**** and quit, nope. Not going to pretend to support it. f*** these guys. Go play golf.
    5 points
  38. Colas 3 for 3 with a double. There’s you starting right fielder folks.
    5 points
  39. 5 points
  40. I get all this and it's all true, but let's focus just on the stuff Hahn should reasonably control in his position - the scouting, player dev and analytics part of the org. By the end of 2016, the sox decided for a rebuild. Probably would have been a good time to retool the organization in that end. To 'modernize' (Rick Hahn decided to start modernizing 3 years into his tenure apparently), he entrusted Nick Hostetler to run the amateur scouting. He entrusted Chris Getz to run Player Dev. Analytics he just decided to use vendors basically. Those guys were already in their position. Getz took over in the midst of a revolution of player development technologies and techniques. He has done admirably imo in trying to keep up with it. But, I don't know, if I was serious about winning I may have tried to go after some of those who had natively ushered in this revolution, not a guy who spent a year in player dev in the famously old school Dayton Moore org. We've certainly been better in player dev - considering hahn set-up this rebuild with a bunch of high variance guys, Getz did get them to the big leagues and got big performances out of Giolito and Cease. He was an improvement over the white sox, but is he running a top ten unit in baseball? I say no. I think, in contrast to Hahn, that the sox should try to be the best at things. Hostetler took over for Laumann, who run the draft during a more difficult era for sox drafting, and did struggle to create depth. Laumann (2007-2015) during his tenure drafted one of the best pitchers of the decade (sale), a cy young candidate (rodon), a multiple time all star shortstop (TA), a top 5 mvp finisher and multi-time all star (Semien). His failure was drafting players that sometimes washed out before the majors. Hostetlers expert plan was to get more players that would wash out in the majors. Despite always having a full set of picks, and some of the highest draft positions the sox have ever consistently had, we are leaving his draft years of 2016-2019 with a sub-20 home run hitting first baseman possible starter. But that's not fair since he also got us some fringe serviceable relievers. But we have heard he also "modernized" the unit so that's cool. Last we heard hostetler moved to the mlb scouting side to help us with free agency. We've been as good there. And in international, Paddy has certainly found us some talent, finally seeing some depth accumulate on the position player side, highlighted by Jose Rodriguez, Lenyn Sosa, Oscar Colas and more. However, for some reason we have been signing incredibly small classes, led by the single most infuriating class, 2019 group. This was the group we thought would be huge since for 3 years we were under penalty, so what other class would we work on? Well, we signed Yolbert Sanchez, a slap hitting 22 year old for $2.5 million. For that amount, you can get slap hitting defensive players in the big leagues, but we got em for that sweet deal. He's currently slap hitting up a storm in AAA. His defense does look pretty sweet though. So all of the above is just horrible. Contrast it with how a very similar GM in DiPoto pivoted Seattle to be very tech forward in player dev, and revamped scouting. They arrived as a competitive team still harboring a top 5 farm, which allowed them to get a Luis Castillo. By the time sox arrived, the cupboard was bare. We had to trade mlb assets to get a closer, then a pitcher. Subsequently, the pitching we had in AAA and AA was worse then you'd find in the SEC on a friday.
    5 points
  41. Play it on repeat baby….
    5 points
  42. Or they are just mocking a piss poor run organization
    5 points
  43. Tony LaRussa and Bob Nightengale
    5 points
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