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I mean, it makes sense. We knew Fischer was gonna Major League his team. We didn't know Kenny and Hahn would make moves separately, get fired, the next GM would be internal, a team expected to contend for the division would COMPLETELY bottom out, Cease would collapse, Tim would be horrid thanks to Hanser Alonso's defense (i.e., preventable), Liam would get cancer, Sox fans would get shot, Pedro would be Boylen/Trestman 2.0, Middleton would be so ready to leave he'd shave his beard, our best pitcher would have domestic abuse lingering over him, rumors of a move to Nashville AND we're not even guaranteed a top pick. Basically, Sox fans are Mrs. Lincoln being asked if she enjoyed the play.

Thank goodness they got an F and are being called out. The White Sox are doing a great job in only one regard: Turning longtime multi decade "lifelong fans" into people who no longer care about their passion, White Sox baseball. They've turned many many fans into front runners. It used to be we loved our Sox thru thick and thin. Now ... wake us up when you actually have gotten your bleep together and have a contender. Worst season in Sox history with little hope for the rest of the decade. Thanks Sox (sarcastic) ... you made me not care. They make no effort to keep one likeable player in Abreu and then for some reason trade the semi-loveable Burger whose name truly fit that pudgy loveable face.

This race has pulled me back in to an otherwise miserable season. This is why you need a secondary rooting interest. My Cub hatred has brought me considerable joy over my lifetime 😆

Well the end of the minor league season has hit while I was traveling and no Sox affiliate made the playoffs. Interest has unsurprisingly dropped off with football starting. I don't know if AZL will have threads but I just wanted to thank everyone on this board for contributing and helping this season. Despite the dreary season, people kept it civil over here and thanks all for that.

I watched the game and I still don’t know.

For me as a fan, this has been the worst season. Not just from the win-loss viewpoint. It is hard to be optimistic. It is hard to imagine a winning season in the near future.

The perfect ending for the season would be Jake Burger hitting a grand slam to win the 7th game of the world series. Thanks Kenny!

I don't see why I should trust them to rebuild any more than they retool. Just because you rebuild doesnt mean you will actually become a contender. This shouldnt have to be explained given our current situation. Simple as that.

I'm 78 and I need another rebuild like I need a case of swollen hemorrhoids but I see no other way out of this, we have a heartless non-hustling fundamentally unsound baseball team and it needs to be blown up and that means no untouchables including Robert.

ESPN is right on the money, the 1970 White Sox would beat the crap out of the 2023 White Sox. I hate this bunch so much that at 78 years old I’m willing to risk another rebuild so I don’t ever have to see most of the clowns on this poor excuse of a MLB team ever again in White Sox uniforms.

The Sox would be 32nd if two expansion franchises were awarded this year.

And so ends the era of the "young championship core" with the "multiple championships window." They never did "flip that switch."

Develop the South Side. 35th & Shields is a perfect location for a stadium - Red Line/Green Line/Metra Station/Dan Ryan Expy This is what they should do. https://afterburnham.com/armour-field/

If you have a future in other sports, it's stupid to play football.

You have a team you expect to win the division, and instead it loses 100 games. How does this dope not get fired? He is a huge part of clearing the stench.

There is no easy straight forward answer to the cesspool they created. They have zero credibility with the fan base who (rightly) think anything said by the front office is spin and CYA. If they call it a rebuild they publicly admit the initial attempt was a failure and they also alienate what fan base they have left who won't believe the folks in charge will do any better than the previous staff. But that same fan base will see (likely) a half-ass off season trying to patch numerous holes with retreads, has-been's, injury prone players and mediocre free agents. They are between a rock and a hard place. There is only one way out and I'm not being facetious. Fans need to take care of themselves and hope to outlive JR and see what new ownership can bring. Until then it's going to be a lot of misery. Keep those VHS tapes of DVD's of past Sox games from good seasons around...your going to want to watch them.

This post is useless. Why? Sox have no assets to trade that would support a tank/rebuild. Moncada, TA and Eloy and Cease are not going to bring enough in. I am in favor of getting rid of TA and Moncada, sure. But a tank/rebuild will not work this time. You aren't going to get much for either TA or Moncada, folks. Eloy 'might' bring something useful in the rebuild mode. Moncada is a player nobody with a brain wants. Cease walks too many batters to bring back a ton of useful rebuild assets. The Sox blew it by hiring Getz and hiring Pedro. The only way out of this is to have competent baseball people made a couple trades, coach up the few good players we have in the minors, draft well (lol Sox don't draft well) and try to get back to .500 which will let u compete in the laughable Central Division. A tank/rebuild? I'd rather the Sox move or be contracted from the league.

It's amazing how many managers are going to be available/fired, and yet Pedro Grifol has the job security of a Supreme Court Justice. Btw, isn't Counsell gonna end up on the Mets?

The way this franchise is trending by June of next season you'll just have a monthly game thread.

You aren't familiar with our owner, are you?

It’s not just that we are the worst team compared to expectations. The Sox are the worst team in baseball right now and by a wide margin.

They should be 32nd even without expansion franchises.

Stereotype of Jerry Reinsdorf today: totally unwilling to change things or take outside feedback. Reinsdorf fires his GM, finds the only mediocre white guy in his organization who won't give him independent and outside feedback or demand for him to change anything about how he's running the organization, hires him for GM without competition. Completely living up to the stereotype, to the letter. Stereotype of Jerry Reinsdorf: so anti-union that basic things like "being a spokesperson for the Union during the 2021 lockout would be totally infuriating for him and a complete breaking point with that player". A few months later, the team breaks off negotiations and takes that player to an arbitration hearing over a difference in salary of $50,000 - a stunningly petty move that counts as completely living up to the stereotype, to the letter. You can do more of these, the LaRussa hiring, draft picks, international signings, front office staffing, low pay for his part time employees, he is basically living up to every stereotype we have for him. And now that the player who was a public union spokesperson was traded away, and Reinsdorf has spent the last several years totally and utterly living up to every single bad stereotype about him to the letter in every single way we can think of, we expect him to do the exact opposite and bring that player back? If we get a thread about Giolito coming back, you may call me on this one and I will say that Reinsdorf shocked me because I sure don't see this as Reinsdorf behavior.

Cause guys, let's remember that this is the current 2024 rotation under contract: Cease-Kopech-Schlotens-Patino. Touki is almost a lock to re-sign. Then you've got the elite battle of Honeywell, Martin's reconstructed arm and Burke (if he exists) in the mix. Mena and Nastrini are gonna get a few starts in AAA. Who knows what the plan is for Crochet. Also, Cease could be traded, creating a true Murdered Row of a rotation.

At this point the Sox need 1/10 guys to fill out the rotation. If the coaching staff is back, might as well bring back a guy who Katz has had success with + let Bannister get his hands on him.

There’s nobody on the roster that should be untouchable. Nobody. Easy decision to pay him a million to go away.

The perfect storm of mediocrity, valuable controlled assets and recent success on the north side afforded the previous front office a uniquely supportive fanbase for a complete rebuild. Now seven years later, that golden ticket opportunity has clearly been squandered and the fanbase seems dead set against rebuilding again. Sox internet lambastes: “Until Jerry is gone, nothing will change, so what is the point”. If that is the sentiment, why not rebuild? Are fans excited to enter the lose-lose Jack Flaherty and Amed Rosario sweepstakes this winter, only for any veteran signing to move the Sox expected World Series needle odds by 0.5%? I understand and share in the helplessness we all feel right now, but we have to play the hand we are dealt, no matter how many Jerry Jokers we are holding. For me it is simple, the options are: A. Enjoy watching Luis Robert for three more seasons, likely with zero chance at winning a World Series, and only a slightly better chance at winning a terrible division. B. Trade what little valuable assets the White Sox have (In what could possibly shape up to be a seller’s market) and rebuild. I choose option B by a large margin. I won’t go over the obvious reasons (everyone sucks) and instead offer my outside the box takes on the situation: 1. Rebuilding slightly minimizes the Jerry Reinsdorf effect. You can’t miss out on free agents you aren’t try to sign. Tony La Russa can’t manage players you haven’t drafted yet. 2. I believe the MLB doesn’t love tanking or complete tear downs and will continue to put rules in place to disincentive clubs from doing so. Being one of the last organizations to possibly attempt a teardown would be +EV. I’d also love to see a front office acquire bad contracts from teams, matched with prospects, especially from clubs that are attempting to avoid Luxury Tax penalties. I also assume the minute that becomes a thing, MLB will be there to put an end to it. Doing that this offseason would obviously beat the league to the punch. 3. A sale of the club feels at least a few years away. Why not minimize liabilities and hope to be as attractive of an asset as possible? Adding a Benintendi super splash signing a year to the books for the next few years could severely hamper any instant impact a new ownership group might have. 4. The Sox were picking 11th in year 1 of the rebuild last party. They will have a much better pick next year and would be close to a lock for at least one more top 4 pick before things got better. 5. After a phenomenal season and with a contract that only gets shorter, it is significantly more likely you are selling high on Robert than it is that you are selling low. Do we all wish it wasn't Chris Getz in charge of a possible rebuild? Sure. But does it mean we should just watch Luis Robert play for a 60-70 win team for 3 more years and then jump off a bridge?

I was sent an e-mail tonight by a longtime former member of the Chicago media who covered the Sox. They said (quote) "Getz and Gene Watson are disaster hires. I wonder if pro scouts will depart and if Mike Shirley will be promoted."

1. Is there a point to trading Cease after a second half with an ERA over 5? Is anyone giving up multiple top prospects for that? Even Kenny Williams didn’t pay that kind of price for struggling pitchers. At least have to wait until the deadline. 2. Robert being traded is still something I’d consider if I were the white sox GM, but I wouldn’t pay a fair price if I was an opposing GM. The opposing GM would be paying a premium talent price for 4 years of control, for a player with a substantial injury history, who also seems to be very difficult to coach - he’s relying solely on athletic ability and doesn’t want to learn more. The trade deadline problems still exist, only a handful of teams can afford him and for those who could it’s a very risky deal.

ESPN+ has ranked White Sox season #30 last in majors with an F ranking, citing front office mayhem and underperforming. An embarrassment by the Sox this season.

Aside from a popup winner in 2005, the pathetic record of this team for countless decades (well, they were actually counted) speaks for itself that there is no direction they choose likkely to work. It is an incompetant organization, historically so. Perhaps the unwillingness to invest in a productive farm team prevents them from being successful despite themselves. But until they finally decided to build a sustainable model for the farm system to flourish, all this talk about which direction to choose is empty gumflapping.

It doesn’t matter what you call it, it’s happening

Game threads should be for individual games. Hope this series thing created by @flavum goes away in 2024. That is all.

How crucial of a series can we ask for.

You can say that at the KW and Hahn level and it appears accurate. HOWEVER, at all the other levels of this organization, we constantly are talking about failing to do basic jobs - basic advance scouting, basic big league scouting, minor leaguers who are unable to obtain the type of coaching and feedback that they need to have success and who are sort of on their own to figure things out. We see people who are sloppy, we see people who aren't doing their jobs well. The Dodgers give AJ Pollock a huge amount of information, a giant book every day to prepare for his at bats, he comes to Chicago and they tell him that there's probably a pitcher who throws with an arm who will be on the mound tomorrow and he should get to work. The ticket sales and customer service departments have sounded awful the last few years, events and outreach and even just the general things that leave people feeling good have been stripped away. There's no one to say "Hey maybe Clevinger using 'gold digger' as his walkout song" doesn't reflect well on the team, so it just slips through. They haven't established a clear structure at the top, fair. However, at all the other levels of the organization, people are overworked and incapable of providing the type of information that players and decision makers need. They're all swamped, they're doing the best they can but the organization is so completely bare-bones, built to save money on staff, that it hurts everything else. That contrast shows up dramatically when you compare to the Cubs. The White Sox have 1 guy getting the same title as 3 or 4 guys there. They have a pitching expert, an international scouting organizer, etc. The White Sox just lump all that onto one guy, and we've seen how bad the results are.

I’ll be so annoyed if they don’t reach 100 losses. They don’t deserve to dodge that mark of futility.

No they wont. That's just a projection from someone suffering from habitual losing fanbase syndrome. Coulda, woulda ,shoulda, They are rental players. Do you really think the Cubs ignored any offers? They did the right thing. There's only room for one white flag baseball team in this town,

Agree. It is beyond dumb to bring back the manager of such a bad performing team. I guess the main reason is that he is under contract and JR does not want to pay him as well as a new manager. IMO.

GM Chris Getz: "Why would the previous farm director put me in this position?"

Giolito was absolutely rocked by Cincinnati last night. He has nothing in the tank. Basically, he has morphed into nothingmore than a pitcher (thrower) serving up beach balls to the hitters in a home run derby contest. It is remarkable how far he has fallen this season. He may only get a spring training invite next year without any guarantees. He can forget any possibility of a lucrative long term free agency contract. Who is the "real" Lucas Giolito? Maybe Donaldson was correct about the sticky stuff. His fastball velocity has dropped to the 91 range which eliminates the past effectiveness of his changeup.

Looked at the box score. I have no idea who Yohan Ramirez is

Get rid of the distractions, band-aids, cancers, etc. on the team. Can't stress it enough.

If the price tag is an issue on Anderson then they are in huge trouble as it's a peanuts deal. He obviously needs a change of scenery so pick up the option and hope for the best.

Yes, I disagree; they were never particularly young, and as soon as they got good the farm sucked again.

They do, but Robert doesn’t know his name.

Buddy we have sat through the Trestman and Boylen catastrophes, there is always room for more

Arlington would be next-level stupid. Sox would have 0 built in fanbase there.

ISFA (located at GRF) will almost certainly make a deal with the Sox for a new lease at 35th and Shields before the current lease expires, especially if the Sox want to rehab or rebuild there. Meanwhile there is nothing structurally wrong with GRF ...a facility than can last for decades if properly maintained. Infrastructure (streets , sewers gas/ electric), parking facilities, access to public transportation, expressway access...it is already there. The ONLY option that might attract the Sox and the City of Chicago is Soldier Field...a very remote possibility and that only....IF the Bears move out and a deal can be worked out, including TIF financing and a share of gaming, hotel taxes, and other revenues. Frankly, I don't see the Sox moving anywhere for decades and any thoughts about that will be put to bed when they get a new lease in place.

I thought the Sox and Bears would both be pretty decent this year. I am an idiot.

They will. In 2035.