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Frank Thomas played 109 games in AA...he’s nowhere close to that.   Only 38 in his career so far.

He’s also not even 21 1/2 yet.

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23 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

Frank Thomas played 109 games in AA...he’s nowhere close to that.   Only 38 in his career so far.

He’s also not even 21 1/2 yet.

But a different era. I agree he needs time in AAA but some players go straight from AA to majors.  So i think he will be moved pretty quickly to AAA but then stay there till they think he has no more to learn at that level. 

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57 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

Frank Thomas played 109 games in AA...he’s nowhere close to that.   Only 38 in his career so far.

He’s also not even 21 1/2 yet.

Why does any of this matter?  He has nearly a 200 wRC+ despite playing half his games in a pitchers park.  Dude isn’t be challenged right now and that’s what development is all about.

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He hasnt even had any setbacks or adversity to deal with...

Kris Bryant, for example, had 68 AA games at age 22 and 70 AAA games and then debuted at 23.

That’s still basically the AA All-Star Break for Jimenez to reach half a season of AA ball.

Edited by caulfield12

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The better talent is in AA. AAA is a level for depth pieces for the MLB team and other AAAA type players. AAA is usually just a final tune up and I don't think it is always necessary to have to go there depending on the player.

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57 minutes ago, soxfan2014 said:

The better talent is in AA. AAA is a level for depth pieces for the MLB team and other AAAA type players. AAA is usually just a final tune up and I don't think it is always necessary to have to go there depending on the player.

He is going to get a different experience.  With the amount of former MLB pitchers there, he is going to see a lot more MLB style pitching where guys try to go at your weaknesses and pitch backwards, instead of guys throwing what they want to work on and what they think is their best pitch.

It is something Rick Hahn mentioned specifically the other day when talking about when guys would be promoted.  Reading between the lines for Eloy, there is zero chance he skips AAA.

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“I think he'll be pitched a little bit differently when he gets to Triple-A," Hahn said. "There'll be a bit of a more veteran-type staff. Double-A tends to be primarily a prospect level. Lot of guys with real good stuff who are trying to harness that stuff, speaking in general terms. And in Triple-A, you see a few more veteran types who might keep hitters off-balance, get them to expand the zone a little bit more, are a little more on the finesse side of things or at the very least have some more big league experience. Those, they tend to approach or attack hitters a little bit differently.

"I do think he'll be attacked a little bit differently once he does get to Charlotte, and that'd be beneficial for him."

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3 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

He is going to get a different experience.  With the amount of former MLB pitchers there, he is going to see a lot more MLB style pitching where guys try to go at your weaknesses and pitch backwards, instead of guys throwing what they want to work on and what they think is their best pitch.

It is something Rick Hahn mentioned specifically the other day when talking about when guys would be promoted.  Reading between the lines for Eloy, there is zero chance he skips AAA.

Frank Thomas came from AA but that was different on a couple of levels. First, the Sox were trying to win. Second, it already was established he didn't chase pitches. It it was an inch out of the zone, he wasn't swinging. Perhaps the best concept of a strike zone for a guy that big and strong ever. It's something Eloy hasn't proven yet. But to thinke he can get to Frank's level with that is really not fair or realistic. 

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4 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

Frank Thomas came from AA but that was different on a couple of levels. First, the Sox were trying to win. Second, it already was established he didn't chase pitches. It it was an inch out of the zone, he wasn't swinging. Perhaps the best concept of a strike zone for a guy that big and strong ever. It's something Eloy hasn't proven yet. But to thinke he can get to Frank's level with that is really not fair or realistic. 

Most important of all, Frank's GM didn't give an interview talking about how much Frank Thomas would benefit from playing in AAA.

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Just to be clear I wasn't suggesting Eloy shouldn't go to AAA. Was just stating a fact that not everyone needs to go to AAA.

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How valuable is one year of player control considering that eventually you are going to have to decide whether or not to sign a player to a long term deal?

Is it wise to have several of our top prospects s begin their service time in any one year  or years (which means that they would come up at the same time) ?

You would not want two or three star players wanting huge long term deals or choosing free agency at the same time.

Maybe the rules have to be changed regarding service time.

 

Edited by tray
spelling

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2 minutes ago, tray said:

How valuable is one year of player control considering that eventually you are going to have to decide whether or not to sign a player to a long term deal?

Is it wise to have several of our top prospects s begin their service time in any one year  or years (which means that they would come up at the same time) ?

You would not want two or three star players wanting huge long term deals or choosing free agency at the same time.

Maybe the rules have to be changed regarding service time.

 

I think it's huge, especially if you are looking at a future star, and that one year is outside the winning window vs. inside the winning window. Be like Bryant. Call him up a  couple weeks into the 2019 season.

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2 hours ago, Dick Allen said:

Frank Thomas came from AA but that was different on a couple of levels. First, the Sox were trying to win. Second, it already was established he didn't chase pitches. It it was an inch out of the zone, he wasn't swinging. Perhaps the best concept of a strike zone for a guy that big and strong ever. It's something Eloy hasn't proven yet. But to thinke he can get to Frank's level with that is really not fair or realistic. 

Frank's command of the zone was so good, that manager Jeff Torborg actually wanted him to break camp with the team right from the beginning, based on what he saw of Thomas in spring training.  It was then-GM Larry Himes who put the breaks on that and kept him in the minors until August of that year.  But given the way Frank hit the ground running that August, it's fair to say that maybe Torborg was correct, and he could have had Thomas for the entire year of that 1990 campaign.  Makes you wonder a little if a full year of Frank would have been enough for that surprise 1990 White Sox team to overtake Oakland that year.  

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3 hours ago, soxfan2014 said:

The better talent is in AA. AAA is a level for depth pieces for the MLB team and other AAAA type players. AAA is usually just a final tune up and I don't think it is always necessary to have to go there depending on the player.

More important for hitters than pitchers IMO since there is generally better off-speed stuff to deal with in AAA.

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2 hours ago, southsider2k5 said:

Most important of all, Frank's GM didn't give an interview talking about how much Frank Thomas would benefit from playing in AAA.

Eloy would benefit from AAA which is why he needs to be there in the very near future.

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3 minutes ago, SonofaRoache said:

Eloy would benefit from AAA which is why he needs to be there in the very near future.

It is probably going to happen around the draft, or when Robert is back, which ever comes first.  There is a whole mess of moves that needs to happen, and both of those events have a chance at being the catalyst for them.  Once the Sox figure out how to break open a spot in Charlotte, there is a wave of guys all of the way down to rookie ball who are set to move up.

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18 hours ago, Eminor3rd said:

And those coaches are saying he isn't ready yet. That's the whole point. 

We don't want to disrupt the process just because this team is hard to watch on TV right now.

no...the whole point if you haven't been following along...NOBODY has said bring him up now...geezus.   Not sure how or why that factoid is eluding people...

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True. Nobody on here is clamoring for Eloy to be brought up, just to get our minds off the crappy pitching staff we have.

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11 hours ago, soxfan2014 said:

The better talent is in AA. AAA is a level for depth pieces for the MLB team and other AAAA type players. AAA is usually just a final tune up and I don't think it is always necessary to have to go there depending on the player.

I think that is true for some college players where the club thinks AA to majors may be okay. But the HS/international kids may need AAA .

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My understanding is that when Frank played, AA was better in terms of top talent and AAA was just a holding league for replacement level players.  Now it seems like the top talent still tends to hang out in AA but there is just a lot more AAA talent, particularly in pitching.

I'm in no hurry to move Eloy around, but he does need to see AAA pitching.

Edited by AustinIllini

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1 hour ago, AustinIllini said:

My understanding is that when Frank played, AA was better in terms of top talent and AAA was just a holding league for replacement level players.  Now it seems like the top talent still tends to hang out in AA but there is just a lot more AAA talent, particularly in pitching.

 

You may be right about AAA.  But I will say that Charlotte is mostly organizational minor leaguers and declining prospects(Kopech an exception).

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19 hours ago, Wanne said:

no...the whole point if you haven't been following along...NOBODY has said bring him up now...geezus.   Not sure how or why that factoid is eluding people...

Maybe because it WAS said in the very first post in this thread?

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He should stay in Birmingham until the Southern League All Star Game is over on June 19---then be sent to Charlotte for the rest of the season. Play about 125 games for the season, tell him "nice job", and see ya at Soxfest.  Then next March, send him down at the end of spring training, and bring him up after the 7>6 date.

Of course by the time the next CBA gets ratified, it may be a 6>5 date.

Edited by flavum

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13 minutes ago, flavum said:

He should stay in Birmingham until the Southern League All Star Game is over on June 19---then be sent to Charlotte for the rest of the season. Play about 125 games for the season, tell him "nice job", and see ya at Soxfest.  Then next March, send him down at the end of spring training, and being him up after the 7>6 date.

Of course by the time the next CBA gets ratified, it may be a 6>5 date.

Fuck that.

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3 minutes ago, chitownsportsfan said:

Fuck that.

Oh, come on. You know you love Daniel Palka, Trayce Thompson and Adam Engel.

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