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Machado signs with Padres 10/300

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11 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

Another point I think is important - I'll minimize all the other aspects of Manny Machado not working hard or having a bad personality or having bad hair or whatever other point people want to use to insult him for not being like them. But if Manny Machado wants to come to a team and insist that he needs to be the SS and him getting that position is so important that the team needs to shuffle 4 players around to make it happen - that's a much bigger attitude red flag than anything else I've seen.

What's going to happen in a couple years when he loses a step, is no longer even a tolerable SS, the team has drafted a SS candidate, and Machado refuses to move? Manny Machado now makes the lineup card out?

Just call him Derek Jeter!

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Just now, ptatc said:

No doubt. However as they said at that, having too many good players is a good problem.

Yep, which is why if they project Manny, Yoan, Timmy and Madrigal as 4 of their core players, then this is the most effective way to get them all on the same field.

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1 minute ago, ptatc said:

Interesting post of calling out people criticizing him for not being like them, yet you go on to criticize him in your way. Would your criticism not be part of the bad personality variety? He is definitely a player that has strengths and weaknesses.

I guess this wasn't clear enough so let me try it again.

if Manny Machado refuses to play any position other than SS that is a huge personality red flag. There are some things I don't care about - I don't care that much when a veteran slams his bat down rather than running out a popup. I don't care if a guy is a little cocky.

there are some things that are a much bigger deal. I care a lot about a guy refusing to do what is best for the roster and hurting the franchise. I care about a player overruling the manager. Manny Machado does not make the lineups. Most of the personality things people have cited for him, I think they don't matter and I think people pay no attention to them when other players do them. 

Manny Machado insisting he was a 3b and causing the White Sox to shuffle 4 positions would be an enormous personality red flag. So big that I'm pretty sure I'd say F*** it and look elsewhere. He'd make my team better now but he's going to be a big problem soon when he insists he has a right to that position.

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8 minutes ago, fathom said:

Am I the only one that thinks Manny wants to play SS for the next 5 years or so to help his HOF chances?

Which is silly, because he's amazing at 3rd.

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10 minutes ago, fathom said:

Am I the only one that thinks Manny wants to play SS for the next 5 years or so to help his HOF chances?

Yes you are.

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9 minutes ago, fathom said:

Am I the only one that thinks Manny wants to play SS for the next 5 years or so to help his HOF chances?

After receiving $35M per season for the next 7-8 years, I'd feel truly awful for him if he didn't end up in the HOF. I'm sure when he's sitting in his mansion in Miami when he's 40 he will feel like a loser if he wasn't inducted into Cooperstown. What a wasted career it would be otherwise. 🙄

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1 minute ago, Balta1701 said:

I guess this wasn't clear enough so let me try it again.

if Manny Machado refuses to play any position other than SS that is a huge personality red flag. There are some things I don't care about - I don't care that much when a veteran slams his bat down rather than running out a popup. I don't care if a guy is a little cocky.

there are some things that are a much bigger deal. I care a lot about a guy refusing to do what is best for the roster and hurting the franchise. I care about a player overruling the manager. Manny Machado does not make the lineups. Most of the personality things people have cited for him, I think they don't matter and I think people pay no attention to them when other players do them. 

Manny Machado insisting he was a 3b and causing the White Sox to shuffle 4 positions would be an enormous personality red flag. So big that I'm pretty sure I'd say F*** it and look elsewhere. He'd make my team better now but he's going to be a big problem soon when he insists he has a right to that position.

I get that, but just because those are the things you care about doesn't make the things others care about less justified. All of those things are part if his make up and personality.  If the Sox are going to sign him, pay him that type of money and possibly reshuffle their infield, all factors need to be evaluated. 

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10 minutes ago, fathom said:

As soon as Sox drafted Madrigal, we knew position changes were inevitable.

If he forces the issue that is.

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It seems like it’s more difficult to find elite 3B for the Hall, actually.

Rolen was one of the best of his generation, and he’s likely going to struggle to get in.  Beltre is the gold standard.

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After some thought, the Phillies hiring Manny’s mentor, could be a positive for us. If teams are doing this, you would think hiring these people close to Manny, had to come up in negotiations. I think the advantage is still White Sox.

Edited by Orlando

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If I remember correctly weren’t the Sox the ones who floated the idea of moving Moncada to third next year? They had to do that with the knowledge that they might acquire Machado in the off season. I just can’t remember if it was just speculation or if Moncada confirmed they floated that idea?....

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1 minute ago, soxfan2014 said:

If he forces the issue that is.

Personally, I'd rather trade a guy than reshuffle people across 4 positions to accommodate someone.

If Moncada strikes out 220 times this year again, then Madrigal can earn his spot. If both play excellent and Madrigal is a top 10 prospect next offseason - then Madrigral could be the #1 guy in a trade for someone spectacular.  

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If they don't land Machado (man, I really hope they do), I'd probably keep Moncada at 2B (for now) and play Rondon at 3B and see what we have with him. Just say no to Moose.

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15 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

I guess this wasn't clear enough so let me try it again.

if Manny Machado refuses to play any position other than SS that is a huge personality red flag. There are some things I don't care about - I don't care that much when a veteran slams his bat down rather than running out a popup. I don't care if a guy is a little cocky.

there are some things that are a much bigger deal. I care a lot about a guy refusing to do what is best for the roster and hurting the franchise. I care about a player overruling the manager. Manny Machado does not make the lineups. Most of the personality things people have cited for him, I think they don't matter and I think people pay no attention to them when other players do them. 

Manny Machado insisting he was a 3b and causing the White Sox to shuffle 4 positions would be an enormous personality red flag. So big that I'm pretty sure I'd say F*** it and look elsewhere. He'd make my team better now but he's going to be a big problem soon when he insists he has a right to that position.

Whatever happened to the "I just want to do whatever I can to make this team better" attitude? We don't know that Manny is still insisting upon playing SS, but if he has, then I agree that it is troublesome. It not only hurts the team, but demonstrates a selfish attitude. If Machado recognizes that he is a better defensive third baseman, than a short stop and yet, still insists upon playing there, perhaps to enhance his chances for the Hall of Fame, then maybe we should be focused upon Harper.

Many here have insisted that Machado provides more WAR, than Harper, by virtue of his glove at 3RD, versus Harper's poor outfield defense. The last thing that this young team needs is an Antonio Brown type prima donna. Hey, Mr. Machado,  Just take the money and dedicate yourself to helping this young core to become champions. Maybe having both Jay and Alonso around to keep his head on straight, will prove to be more valuable than having helped to acquire him.

Edited by Lillian

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Just now, Balta1701 said:

Personally, I'd rather trade a guy than reshuffle people across 4 positions to accommodate someone.

If Moncada strikes out 220 times this year again, then Madrigal can earn his spot. If both play excellent and Madrigal is a top 10 prospect next offseason - then Madrigral could be the #1 guy in a trade for someone spectacular.  

Yeah that works too. If everyone is playing well and you don't really have a need for him, deal him for something else.

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20 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

Chances are if you can play SS in the major leagues, you can probably play a number of positions. It's not a 100% lock, but a pretty good chance.

 

He didn't play SS, but Craig Biggio was a catcher and outfielder before he became a 2B then he went back to the OF full time, before returning to 2B, and he made the HOF. . Robin Yount moved to CF. Tim Raines was a 2B. 

Agree. Often a SS is the best overall athlete on a team. 

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6 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

Personally, I'd rather trade a guy than reshuffle people across 4 positions to accommodate someone.

If Moncada strikes out 220 times this year again, then Madrigal can earn his spot. If both play excellent and Madrigal is a top 10 prospect next offseason - then Madrigral could be the #1 guy in a trade for someone spectacular.  

I would agree depending on the return. I don't think Moncada would really have much value yet. I wonder what the market would be for Anderson given his contract control.

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2 minutes ago, Lillian said:

Whatever happened to the "I just want to do whatever I can to make this team better" attitude? We don't know that Manny has insisted upon playing SS, but if he has, then I agree that it is troublesome. It not only hurts the team, but demonstrates a selfish attitude. If Machado recognizes that he is a better defensive third baseman, than a short stop and yet, still insists upon playing there, perhaps to enhance his chances for the Hall of Fame, then maybe we should be focused upon Harper.

Many here have insisted that Machado provides more WAR, than Harper, by virtue of his glove at 3RD, versus Harper's poor outfield defense. The last thing that this young team needs is an Antonio Brown type prima donna. Hey, Mr. Machado,  Just take the money and dedicate yourself to helping this young core to become champions. Maybe having both Jay and Alonso around to keep his head on straight, will prove to be more valuable than having helped to acquire him.

Meh.  Like I said in my earlier post, one of the most glorified HOfers in MLB history, the greatest team player ever refused to give up the SS position when his team signed a clearly superior shortstop yet everything worked out fine.

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3 minutes ago, LittleHurt05 said:

Meh.  Like I said in my earlier post, one of the most glorified HOfers in MLB history, the greatest team player ever refused to give up the SS position when his team signed a clearly superior shortstop yet everything worked out fine.

Yep. Cash is king.

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3 minutes ago, ptatc said:

I would agree depending on the return. I don't think Moncada would really have much value yet. I wonder what the market would be for Anderson given his contract control.

He’s so getting traded for Starling Marte :)

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I'm not sure where all the positional talk started or the root of it all. But my personal take mirrors more of the Joe Maddon school of thought. These guys who in the MLB were the stars of all their teams growing up... they pitched, were the best hitter, the best fielders, etc. It's not like Tim Anderson can't play more than one position. Every guy should be able to bounce around a few positions. So Anderson should learn SS, 3B and CF. Moncada 2B, 3B, OF. Machado SS, 3B. All OF should be taking time at 1B. It allows lineup flexibility and the ability to field the best lineup.

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12 minutes ago, Lillian said:

Whatever happened to the "I just want to do whatever I can to make this team better" attitude? We don't know that Manny is still insisting upon playing SS, but if he has, then I agree that it is troublesome. It not only hurts the team, but demonstrates a selfish attitude. If Machado recognizes that he is a better defensive third baseman, than a short stop and yet, still insists upon playing there, perhaps to enhance his chances for the Hall of Fame, then maybe we should be focused upon Harper.

Many here have insisted that Machado provides more WAR, than Harper, by virtue of his glove at 3RD, versus Harper's poor outfield defense. The last thing that this young team needs is an Antonio Brown type prima donna. Hey, Mr. Machado,  Just take the money and dedicate yourself to helping this young core to become champions. Maybe having both Jay and Alonso around to keep his head on straight, will prove to be more valuable than having helped to acquire him.

This isn't new with superstar players. The increasing focus on individual advanced stats makes it a little more apparent. Frank Thomas insisted on playing 1B instead of DH for comfort and HOF reasons. His focus on the box score the next day was legendary in the clubhouse and baseball. 

Superstars will want to be treated like superstars in general. 

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I think we have to let this play out before we judge Manny.  This is the age of the athlete calling the shots if they have enough status.  Lebron, Antonio Brown and Jimmy Butler are a few examples where the team did not come first.  If Manny is upfront and says SS is his desire, then the GM needs to determine if he is worth the disruption.  If the Phillies and Sox are the finalists and both say 3B or nothing, then Manny may have to fins another "cheaper" option

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When do you think the last time he actually talked to his HS coach was? And he's basing his opinion on which team needs a SS and he clealy doesn't know the White Sox well enough to know who Tim Anderson is and that he plays SS. Everyone calm down. 

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