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COVID-19/Coronavirus thread

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4 hours ago, hogan873 said:

My youngest two (16 and 18) are scheduled for their first shots this week.  There's a Facebook page a guy created that was all about supporting local restaurants when COVID started, and it has morphed into a restaurant/bar appreciation page.  The moderator has also been posting links to open vaccine appointments, and that was how we were able to snag appointments so easily.  By easily I mean going to the page immediately and securing an appointment as soon as possible.  It took about 2 or 3 tries for each, but once you reserve a spot, you have 5 minutes to fill out the info and confirm.

 Both of my younger kids work with the public (Walmart and TCBY), so I'll feel a lot better once they're fully vaccinated.

My son is getting his on Sunday.  He is 17.   

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14 hours ago, Balta1701 said:

Moderna is virtually identical to Pfizer so basically expect it to see a similar result.

We already know J&J is less effective against it since some of their testing was done in South Africa.

J&J is at least 57% effective, although I didn’t see how effective the others were in terms of percentages with the South African variant.

14 hours ago, greg775 said:

Can I make a few comments all over the map? Feel free to blast me or scream at me. I haven't posted much in a while and figured some might want to see how I'm feeling about COVID in our world.

-- Best wishes to Dick Allen's wife. I truly am saddened about her problems and wish her well. And wish Dick well in getting her 100 percent healthy.

-- My brother is a nurse in a juvenile detention facility in Chicago. After few to no problems the last many months, suddenly 60 percent of the youngsters in there have COVID now, he said. This is a recent development.

He's had his first shot. I pray he doesn't get COVID and the kids there are safe. He did say of all the infected juveniles none of them have had to go to the hospital or anything. This is in a Chicago suburb.

-- My cousin, 30, drove to Indiana Saturday to get Johnson and Johnson vaccine because he only wanted one shot. He did have a problem. He fainted within five minutes after getting the shot. He fell but some people caught him and he hit his head on a shelf but did not sustain injuries. They gave him juice and water and food and he declined to get checked out via ambulance and is OK. Not trying to stir anything up, but he did faint and the person who administered the shot told him she was going to truly insist rather than suggest people wait 15 minutes before leaving after the vaccine is administered.

-- I was scheduled to finally get my first shot (Pfizer after checking sign ups all over town every day) in a drive-through clinic at the fairgrounds in my car on Friday. Well, I spoke to a friend who bled badly after getting Pfizer No. 1 and I spoke to a few others who had some pretty bad symptoms after getting Pfizer-ed. So on Thursday my friend texted me and said a certain small drugstore was well stocked and I'd assuredly be able to get in there.

I checked and it would be Moderna. My brother and sister in law had a sore arm, nothing else from Moderna and I talked to somebody else who had no problems at all. The way my brain works ... I felt more comfortable going to a small drugstore than a drive through at the fairgrounds, so I went and got Moderna Thursday at the mom and pop drugstore. I sat down and the shot-giver said, 'Do you have any reservations?' I said 'actually I do. I watch too much TV.' She said I might have a sore arm but I should be fine. I got good vibes from her. I got the shot and indeed for 48 hours my arm was pretty sore. No big deal there. I'm not a big baby. It went away after 48 hrs.

My next shot is in 2 or 3 weeks. They will text me to come in.

My point to you is, though I am going to be fully vaccinated soon and have made the decision to vaccinate, I am a little surprised that so many people in my life I consider intelligent to brilliant don't AT ALL share any of my concerns (that I do not voice out loud; I keep them inward). I am concerned about all the little snippets I see on social media from people that are saying, 'Don't get vaccinated. In 8 months when there are new variants attacking your body your immune system will be toast to those varients.' Yes I worry that this is some scam and I will ultimately die as part of this vaccine experiment. It's just me. I was wondering if any of you know folks reluctant to grt vaccinated.

Thanks for letting me share this. I am going to be fully vaccinated as soon as humanly possible (I checked the lists every day until I got in the drug store) and I am obeying the recommendations of all my loved ones and friends who have told me to get vaccinated. Here's hoping for a normal world. I'd like to go to some plays this summer in KC and some minor league and big league ballgames.

Please tell me if you have any relatives or loved ones as nervous as I've been re. the vaccine.

First and foremost, thank you for getting the vaccine. 
 

As far as your family member and friend reacting, it can happen, but for the most part, the benefits outweigh the risk. As for those who are against getting the vaccine because it won’t protect against variants, at least you will be in line for a booster and they’ll either have to start the process from scratch or risk the impacts of the variants. Whether or not to take the vaccine is a personal choice, but I think those who get it will be on the right side of history for defeating this pandemic than those who don’t get it.

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Getting J&J tomorrow. Has anyone here gotten it? I'm expecting flu-like symptoms for ~24 hours afterwards and hopefully nothing worse

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38 minutes ago, Jose Abreu said:

Getting J&J tomorrow. Has anyone here gotten it? I'm expecting flu-like symptoms for ~24 hours afterwards and hopefully nothing worse

Roommate got it, no reaction other than a sore arm.

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5 minutes ago, Quin said:

Roommate got it, no reaction other than a sore arm.

Awesome. I'll take all the anecdotal evidence I can get after reading Greg's post lol

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1 minute ago, Jose Abreu said:

Awesome. I'll take all the anecdotal evidence I can get after reading Greg's post lol

Side effects, other than a sore arm and minor fever and aches, aren't common.  Severe side effects are very rare.  Including myself, about 10 members of my family have gotten the vaccine, and only one of us had a slight fever after the second shot.  My brother in-law had the J&J shot and was fine afterwards.  About 130 people I work with got the Pfizer vaccine, and I only know of one person that had anything more than general aches and a slight fever.  They felt nauseous for a day and were pretty sore.

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Got my first shot of Moderna on Friday, was perfectly fine, then about 12 hours later started feeling wiped out, Saturday was basically a write-off, I was zapped of energy.  No fever or other symptoms, just exhausted.  

I did have a mild case of COVID in November, so they do say first shot acts like a booster and side effects will happen.  However, Sunday morning I was 100% so I'm very happy I got it and one step closer to seeing some people I haven't seen in a year!

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the decision seems correct as the demographic affected is more likely to have a higher than the 6 in 7 million number (women 18-49 have likely received far fewer than that), and the fact that it's a rare kind and will help to spread communications to hospitals and doctors on warning signs/treatment.

The communication is annoying but not sure there is anyway to avoid "J&J causes bloodclots, pulled from shelves!" type headlines with twitter/social media. 

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I was leaving school yesterday and realized my assistant coach would need some gift cards from me. I was halfway between my classroom and the outside door when I realized I forgot a mask. Weirdest, most uncomfortable feeling, like I forgot to put on pants. Of course someone saw me before I could put one on in my classroom.

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, bmags said:

the decision seems correct as the demographic affected is more likely to have a higher than the 6 in 7 million number (women 18-49 have likely received far fewer than that), and the fact that it's a rare kind and will help to spread communications to hospitals and doctors on warning signs/treatment.

The communication is annoying but not sure there is anyway to avoid "J&J causes bloodclots, pulled from shelves!" type headlines with twitter/social media. 

This is really going to harm people’s desire to get the vaccine.  Anyone on the fence is going to be far less likely to get the vaccine now and those who were already not planning on getting it will double down.  Really bad news given that people don’t understand statistics or probability at all.

Edited by whitesoxfan99

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48 minutes ago, whitesoxfan99 said:

This is really going to harm people’s desire to get the vaccine.  Anyone on the fence is going to be far less likely to get the vaccine now and those who were already not planning on getting it will double down.  Really bad news given that people don’t understand statistics or probability at all.

This is just punditry.

Unlike the EU pause, they didn't just pause due to an uncertain correlation. They are providing actionable guidance of a specific kind of bloodclot appearing in a demographic, and calling it a pause while they provide more guidance on treatment and look for more info on what traits might create this reaction.

Now if Biden starts pulling a macron or other EU heads of state and start saying completely innaccurate things about the vaccine then we may have to worry, but I don't think the AZ situation with EU will be directly comparable.

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1 hour ago, bmags said:

This is just punditry.

Unlike the EU pause, they didn't just pause due to an uncertain correlation. They are providing actionable guidance of a specific kind of bloodclot appearing in a demographic, and calling it a pause while they provide more guidance on treatment and look for more info on what traits might create this reaction.

Now if Biden starts pulling a macron or other EU heads of state and start saying completely innaccurate things about the vaccine then we may have to worry, but I don't think the AZ situation with EU will be directly comparable.

Yes Bmags, because if we've anything over time, it's that people, especially those already "concerned" about the vaccine will make thoughtful, rational, well thought out decisions and really research what the CDC and FDA are saying....certainly won't rush to judgment or share articles on social media how the J&J vaccine can't be trusted and it's harmful to our bodies.....NO WAY any of that happens.

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22 minutes ago, Tony said:

Yes Bmags, because if we've anything over time, it's that people, especially those already "concerned" about the vaccine will make thoughtful, rational, well thought out decisions and really research what the CDC and FDA are saying....certainly won't rush to judgment or share articles on social media how the J&J vaccine can't be trusted and it's harmful to our bodies.....NO WAY any of that happens.

I figured that the group we are actually worried about would be the vaccine hesitant not full anti-vaxxers. And as this thread has posted over the year every single poll showing vaccine hesitancy from when it was good ("people don't trust trump!") to now when its bad ("trump voters won't get the vaccine!") and the numbers have continued to go down slowly but consistently.

The EU handled the AZ blood clotting situation differently, but the biggest difference causing a schism is many many people in the UK knew many many people who got the AZ vaccine and were fine, whereas EU rollout had been slow and stirring anger at the company for how it handled low supply and its UK contract.

The US could have decided not to pause, but I get their worry that most of the J&J vaccine was given very recently, and this side effect is reported one-three weeks after the shot is given. It is likely this continues to be a rare phenomenon and the numerator is as low as they thought, and the pausing was unneccessary. But it's also a possibility that the numerator is decently higher and the pause allowed them to better target the vaccine to the right groups as well as signal to the health care providers the correct way to treat this particular blood clot.

If the US did not have 2 other vaccines currently that were alread much better at producing high volumes, maybe the US just presses on like the UK did with AZ, but when it's all factored in I think it is a difficult call on its face - and I think "don't say stuff because the worst people may use it against you" isn't a very compelling part of the reasoning. I'd be more on board with CDC/FDA at least meeting with some key health provider groups + medical journals + select journalists that cover health for a quick conference call before the press release and an immediate press conference, but the actual decision is harder than this thread makes it out to be.

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1 hour ago, bmags said:

I figured that the group we are actually worried about would be the vaccine hesitant not full anti-vaxxers. And as this thread has posted over the year every single poll showing vaccine hesitancy from when it was good ("people don't trust trump!") to now when its bad ("trump voters won't get the vaccine!") and the numbers have continued to go down slowly but consistently.

The EU handled the AZ blood clotting situation differently, but the biggest difference causing a schism is many many people in the UK knew many many people who got the AZ vaccine and were fine, whereas EU rollout had been slow and stirring anger at the company for how it handled low supply and its UK contract.

The US could have decided not to pause, but I get their worry that most of the J&J vaccine was given very recently, and this side effect is reported one-three weeks after the shot is given. It is likely this continues to be a rare phenomenon and the numerator is as low as they thought, and the pausing was unneccessary. But it's also a possibility that the numerator is decently higher and the pause allowed them to better target the vaccine to the right groups as well as signal to the health care providers the correct way to treat this particular blood clot.

If the US did not have 2 other vaccines currently that were alread much better at producing high volumes, maybe the US just presses on like the UK did with AZ, but when it's all factored in I think it is a difficult call on its face - and I think "don't say stuff because the worst people may use it against you" isn't a very compelling part of the reasoning. I'd be more on board with CDC/FDA at least meeting with some key health provider groups + medical journals + select journalists that cover health for a quick conference call before the press release and an immediate press conference, but the actual decision is harder than this thread makes it out to be.

We know there is a lot of vaccine hesitancy out there, and it isn't just from anti-vaxxers (https://www.cnn.com/2021/04/09/politics/marines-coronavirus-vaccines/index.htmlhttps://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2021/03/25/republicans-are-more-likely-get-vaccine-after-hearing-trump-supports-it-they-havent-heard-it/).  We also seem to be seeing the better people are informed, the more likely they are to take the vaccine (https://www.npr.org/2021/03/19/978407316/how-do-you-reach-trump-voters-who-say-they-dont-want-the-vaccine-try-doctors). 

Giving people who are already hesitant to take the vaccine an excuse to not take it is potentially bad.  I completely understand why the FDA acted as it did.  But there's certainly potential for unintended consequences here - particularly when headlines say "US Calls for Pause on Johnson & Johnson Vaccine After Blood Clotting Cases" (NYT); and "US calls for a pause on Johnson & Johnson vaccine" (CNN).  If you read the article, you see the blood clot issue is very, very rare.  If you just read the headline, you could come away with confirmation that vaccines aren't safe.  

People who are vaccine hesitant and who only read the headlines could have a disincentive from taking any vaccine, which potentially leads to fewer shots in arms, which is a bad result.  

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still not eligible....

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1 hour ago, illinilaw08 said:

We know there is a lot of vaccine hesitancy out there, and it isn't just from anti-vaxxers (https://www.cnn.com/2021/04/09/politics/marines-coronavirus-vaccines/index.htmlhttps://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2021/03/25/republicans-are-more-likely-get-vaccine-after-hearing-trump-supports-it-they-havent-heard-it/).  We also seem to be seeing the better people are informed, the more likely they are to take the vaccine (https://www.npr.org/2021/03/19/978407316/how-do-you-reach-trump-voters-who-say-they-dont-want-the-vaccine-try-doctors). 

Giving people who are already hesitant to take the vaccine an excuse to not take it is potentially bad.  I completely understand why the FDA acted as it did.  But there's certainly potential for unintended consequences here - particularly when headlines say "US Calls for Pause on Johnson & Johnson Vaccine After Blood Clotting Cases" (NYT); and "US calls for a pause on Johnson & Johnson vaccine" (CNN).  If you read the article, you see the blood clot issue is very, very rare.  If you just read the headline, you could come away with confirmation that vaccines aren't safe.  

People who are vaccine hesitant and who only read the headlines could have a disincentive from taking any vaccine, which potentially leads to fewer shots in arms, which is a bad result.  

I actually think that is the least compelling case to not do this. The best case to me to not pause is you delay potentially hundreds of thousands of doses and increase exposure for that population to a disease with worse effects. 

But the cdc also isn't you know, per se, shooting REAL covid into people and can't control that outcome as much. They can control the vaccine rollout and if they believe they can prevent serious outcomes for some X of people that is not an easy decision to weigh.

There was a kneejerk "SIX OUT OF 7 MIlLION" but it really isn't clear what the numerator is. Because of the similiarities between AZ, I'd certainly put my chips in it being similarly low, but UK has recommended under 30s to try to get a different vaccine. They did not pause to get there, and that may be the better approach, but this also may be a worse or or much worse for a specific demo with J&J than it was for AZ, we don't know yet.

But for the vaccine hesitant, I don't know that getting vaccines in 2 weeks of "Up to 75 cases of blood clotting reported, CDC says vaccine is still safe" is like a silver bullet here either, even if all of twitter shouts at them to learn statistics.

 

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Covid hospitalizations have doubled in Illinois in the past month and are continuing to climb.

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10 hours ago, StrangeSox said:

Covid hospitalizations have doubled in Illinois in the past month and are continuing to climb.

Meanwhile my company is having everyone return to working fully in the office on May 3rd. 

Probably 75% of our employees have been been working from home since November.

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In the world today.  The same folks that said that the number of deaths from COVID was manageable will be the same group that has now become anti-vaxxers because the vaccine is not safe.

Each day I  get older I really am not certain how society is going to exist with one another.

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Posted (edited)
10 minutes ago, Harry Chappas said:

In the world today.  The same folks that said that the number of deaths from COVID was manageable will be the same group that has now become anti-vaxxers because the vaccine is not safe.

Each day I  get older I really am not certain how society is going to exist with one another.

Texas and California will attempt to secede for completely different reasons...Florida is filled with nutty people who don’t want to pay taxes to support the next generation/s, so God knows what they will do.


By the way, China now has two mRNA vaccines in the pipeline, one finishing Stage 2.

It will likely go out to Brazil for testing on that variant in mid-April.  The second one is much farther behind...a number of months to catch up. 

Edited by caulfield12

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1 hour ago, Harry Chappas said:

In the world today.  The same folks that said that the number of deaths from COVID was manageable will be the same group that has now become anti-vaxxers because the vaccine is not safe.

Each day I  get older I really am not certain how society is going to exist with one another.

I really wonder what those people prefer to be the solution. If it's not vaccinations and it's not social distancing/mask wearing/lockdowns, then what is it? Hope everyone gets it in the same 6 month period, achieve herd immunity, and whoever dies is collateral damage? It's almost like those people don't want to solve the issue at all.

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45 minutes ago, chw42 said:

I really wonder what those people prefer to be the solution. If it's not vaccinations and it's not social distancing/mask wearing/lockdowns, then what is it? Hope everyone gets it in the same 6 month period, achieve herd immunity, and whoever dies is collateral damage? It's almost like those people don't want to solve the issue at all.

I think it's more like open everything up, go back to "normal" and whoever dies is collateral damage.

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