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NFL Thread 2020-2021

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Edited by Jack Parkman

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Isn't the main objective in sports to win championships?  [Refraining from Jerry Reinsdorf jokes] ... Other than Watson, there is no QB on the market who makes the Bears a legitimate Super Bowl contender.  Not Wentz, not Carr, not Garoppolo, or whoever else is rumored to be available.  The rest of the Bears team isn't good enough.  OL is average at best, we're about to lose our our best offensive player, and the defense is another year older...  Keep Foles, ride out a shitty 6-10 season next year, and start to stockpile assets while getting the salary cap back in order.  That's the strategic long-term play here.  Except we kept a GM who is desperate and will make short-term moves to gain an extra win or two, leaving us in a long-term bind.

On that note, Pace has zero understanding of asset management.  He trades away draft picks like they're nothing because he always has to move up to get "his guy."  The problem with this is that history/analytics show that trading up is a bad idea.  Hell, per the Under Center pod a few weeks ago, Pace tried to trade up for Kmet last year (thankfully he couldn't).  After all his bad trades, he still hasn't learned his lesson.  What makes anyone think he's trustworthy of fixing this team?

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1 hour ago, Jack Parkman said:

They should learn from the O'Brien/Hopkins fiasco and fire Pace before he has a chance to make this trade. 

This is literally nothing like that trade

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14 minutes ago, dasox24 said:

Isn't the main objective in sports to win championships?  [Refraining from Jerry Reinsdorf jokes] ... Other than Watson, there is no QB on the market who makes the Bears a legitimate Super Bowl contender.  Not Wentz, not Carr, not Garoppolo, or whoever else is rumored to be available.  The rest of the Bears team isn't good enough.  OL is average at best, we're about to lose our our best offensive player, and the defense is another year older...  Keep Foles, ride out a shitty 6-10 season next year, and start to stockpile assets while getting the salary cap back in order.  That's the strategic long-term play here.  Except we kept a GM who is desperate and will make short-term moves to gain an extra win or two, leaving us in a long-term bind.

On that note, Pace has zero understanding of asset management.  He trades away draft picks like they're nothing because he always has to move up to get "his guy."  The problem with this is that history/analytics show that trading up is a bad idea.  Hell, per the Under Center pod a few weeks ago, Pace tried to trade up for Kmet last year (thankfully he couldn't).  After all his bad trades, he still hasn't learned his lesson.  What makes anyone think he's trustworthy of fixing this team?

The Bears were screwed the day that they kept Pace. The only path to being good was to trade any valuable asset to try and rebuild for the future when Rodgers is gone.

But when they kept Pace they agreed to being terrible, because no way is Pace going to do the right thing and accumulate picks. 

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Andy Reid's son was involved in an AA. Some suggestion that alcohol may have been involved. Children are injured.

I cannot understand how you can take that risk when an uber/lyft is available. 

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As a Colts fan, I'll be shocked if Ballard pays a high price for Wentz. He hoards draft picks. Although, Reich is very familiar with him, and I feel they'll go get him if Reich says to.

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8 hours ago, Kyyle23 said:

He seemed pretty solid this season when I followed him but I can't recall him breaking anything like this

Wentz's numbers are a lot better than I thought.  If they make this trade they better fucking protect his ass better than they did Cutler

 

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I don't know what to say - other than - 1 year is really the outlier and it is last year. He had zero weapons, zero line, nothing. It was a disaster and there are many fingers to point at. The year before - 2019 - he was a STUD and similar to last year - that was with a dumpster fire of talent around him.  The Eagles haven't given him much anything after that Super Bowl season. Between injuries and other issues - they just have a lot of bad.

The bigger concern I have with Wentz has less to do with his 2020 performance and more to do with the rumblings of him being a less than stellar lockeroom guy.  But in terms of pure football - he would be right there with Cutler as the most talented QB the franchise has ever had.  Hopefully that is where that comparison ends though and he would be a bigger winner, etc if he were to join the Bears.

From a cap perspective - Wentz traded is actually pretty nice.  If you hit - you have a 25M cap hit for next 4 years...which is about 16th in the league - so bottom line - a real reasonable cap cost if he plays like the 2017-2019 Wentz. 

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8 hours ago, Kyyle23 said:

I did too and that's probably why my mental image doesn't match up 😂 

The piece you have to remember - you didn't even know who was on his roster in that 2019 season. 

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7 hours ago, southsider2k5 said:

Can we send them Foles back?>

I almost assume Foles would be involved in a Wentz trade with the Bears. 

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7 hours ago, bmags said:

These contracts don't seem that bad to me. You don't take on the signing bonuses in a trade.

This - and the same can be said for Carr. Both of these guys are attractive - because if the QB pans out and is above average - you get an above average QB at least average cost.  I believe Wentz has more upside than Carr - but Carr probably has safer floor.  

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5 hours ago, dasox24 said:

Isn't the main objective in sports to win championships?  [Refraining from Jerry Reinsdorf jokes] ... Other than Watson, there is no QB on the market who makes the Bears a legitimate Super Bowl contender.  Not Wentz, not Carr, not Garoppolo, or whoever else is rumored to be available.  The rest of the Bears team isn't good enough.  OL is average at best, we're about to lose our our best offensive player, and the defense is another year older...  Keep Foles, ride out a shitty 6-10 season next year, and start to stockpile assets while getting the salary cap back in order.  That's the strategic long-term play here.  Except we kept a GM who is desperate and will make short-term moves to gain an extra win or two, leaving us in a long-term bind.

On that note, Pace has zero understanding of asset management.  He trades away draft picks like they're nothing because he always has to move up to get "his guy."  The problem with this is that history/analytics show that trading up is a bad idea.  Hell, per the Under Center pod a few weeks ago, Pace tried to trade up for Kmet last year (thankfully he couldn't).  After all his bad trades, he still hasn't learned his lesson.  What makes anyone think he's trustworthy of fixing this team?

I don't disagree with this - other than I would not ride with Foles to start in any scenario. I'd draft a QB and roll the dice on a Winston type.  Two shots - than try again.  But when Bears kept Pace around - it meant Pace was going to try.  As long as McCaskey doesn't let him burn the franchise to the ground - I have no issue with the above and to be honest - I don't hate the Wentz idea.  

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3 hours ago, Soxbadger said:

Andy Reid's son was involved in an AA. Some suggestion that alcohol may have been involved. Children are injured.

I cannot understand how you can take that risk when an uber/lyft is available. 

Reid's son has a history of issues too.  Didn't his other son lose his life to drugs or am I confusing this with something else?  

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Trading for Wentz would be so bad for this franchise, I have no doubt it’s something they are considering. 

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20 hours ago, dasox24 said:

Isn't the main objective in sports to win championships?  [Refraining from Jerry Reinsdorf jokes] ... Other than Watson, there is no QB on the market who makes the Bears a legitimate Super Bowl contender.  Not Wentz, not Carr, not Garoppolo, or whoever else is rumored to be available.  The rest of the Bears team isn't good enough.  OL is average at best, we're about to lose our our best offensive player, and the defense is another year older...  Keep Foles, ride out a shitty 6-10 season next year, and start to stockpile assets while getting the salary cap back in order.  That's the strategic long-term play here.  Except we kept a GM who is desperate and will make short-term moves to gain an extra win or two, leaving us in a long-term bind.

On that note, Pace has zero understanding of asset management.  He trades away draft picks like they're nothing because he always has to move up to get "his guy."  The problem with this is that history/analytics show that trading up is a bad idea.  Hell, per the Under Center pod a few weeks ago, Pace tried to trade up for Kmet last year (thankfully he couldn't).  After all his bad trades, he still hasn't learned his lesson.  What makes anyone think he's trustworthy of fixing this team?

See, I disagree with a lot of this. Wentz and Garoppolo recently quarterbacked teams that went to the Super Bowl. Wentz may not be that QB physically any more I will grant, but you can’t tell me that those guys can’t make the super bowl when they did. And you can’t tell me the Bears don’t have a defense that can make the Super Bowl if they get some help from the offense - the Bears had a better scoring defense in 2019 than the 49ers. 

Put an average offense on the field with a strong defense and you harm be a team that can make noise. 

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There was an article stating the Eagles were looking for a “Stafford like package” which I find laughable. 

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I ... kinda like Wentz. Bears aren’t in a good position regardless, it doesn’t really hurt long term.

And the situation was legit awful.

If he ends up being a 12-14 QB and you want to move on, you could have a great contract with no guaranteed money to send out.

I just really don’t trust NFL fan orthodoxy anymore. And I’ve just not really seen a qb as good as Wentz was lose it to that point. 
 

I also think the complete dismissal of Mac Jones as  just a product of the talent around him has a good chance of being the new big draft groupthink that ends up wrong.

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5 hours ago, Balta1701 said:

See, I disagree with a lot of this. Wentz and Garoppolo recently quarterbacked teams that went to the Super Bowl. Wentz may not be that QB physically any more I will grant, but you can’t tell me that those guys can’t make the super bowl when they did. And you can’t tell me the Bears don’t have a defense that can make the Super Bowl if they get some help from the offense - the Bears had a better scoring defense in 2019 than the 49ers. 

Put an average offense on the field with a strong defense and you harm be a team that can make noise. 

Nick Foles won the Super Bowl MVP.

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Nagy getting to choose another QB is ridiculous. This will not end well. 

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Rumor is the deal is Cohen, Foles and #20 for Wentz and #37. 

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1 hour ago, Soxfest said:

Nagy getting to choose another QB is ridiculous. This will not end well. 

Nagy didn’t choose Mitch, if that’s what you’re referring to.

and not that I’m defending Nagy.

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Oh.. and I still can't believe TJ Watt didn't win DPOY.

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40 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said:

Rumor is the deal is Cohen, Foles and #20 for Wentz and #37. 

If that is true - sign me up.  I'm 100% okay with that. Basically it is a trade down, plus Foles and Cohen.  Moving Foles is cap friendly too (I think) - so no impact on Bears cap. Means Bears have some room / money for Arob and others. This would be as good of a deal as possible in my book. That said - I presume some dead money for moving Cohen.  

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1 hour ago, Soxfest said:

Nagy getting to choose another QB is ridiculous. This will not end well. 

He didn't pick Mitch and quite frankly - lets not pretend that Foles was some all-in type of move.  Foles had never ever ever been a good NFL starter for a full season in his entire career. Actually - check that - I forget his one year with Kelly.  

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