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SoxBlanco

2021 Plan for Kopech and Crochet

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Not a fan of this either. Multi inning relief is better than just set up guy but still that is not a good environment to develope his third pitch. If you work on a third pitch in milb you just throw it a lot in all counts until it works in games even if that means you give up a couple bombs.

But in MLB you are probably not throwing that with runners on when you are not 100% confident as you don't want to give up a granny and then tell your teammates "sorry I was working on something".

 

Obviously you can still work on stuff on your side sessions but it is not the same as in games.

Also relieving doesn't provide a regular schedule.

If they really want to do something like this I would prefer them using him as an extended opener for the 5th starter. Let crochet go about 3 innings and then bring in the 5th starter as a follower for another 4 or so.

That is not ideal either but better than a totally irregular schedule.

But best would be developing in the minors so he can work on everything instead of worrying about results.

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On one hand, it's what Buehrle and Sale did.

On the other, they had WAY more experience starting before taking this path.

I think the delayed minor league season is playing a big factor in this.

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5 minutes ago, Dominikk85 said:

Not a fan of this either. Multi inning relief is better than just set up guy but still that is not a good environment to develope his third pitch. If you work on a third pitch in milb you just throw it a lot in all counts until it works in games even if that means you give up a couple bombs.

But in MLB you are probably not throwing that with runners on when you are not 100% confident as you don't want to give up a granny and then tell your teammates "sorry I was working on something".

 

Obviously you can still work on stuff on your side sessions but it is not the same as in games.

Also relieving doesn't provide a regular schedule.

If they really want to do something like this I would prefer them using him as an extended opener for the 5th starter. Let crochet go about 3 innings and then bring in the 5th starter as a follower for another 4 or so.

That is not ideal either but better than a totally irregular schedule.

But best would be developing in the minors so he can work on everything instead of worrying about results.

If Crochet is a multi-inning reliever, then he can enter the game in a variety of situations. Some of his appearances might be high leverage, but some might be in a 10-1 game in the 6th inning. That's the perfect opportunity to work on a third pitch.

Also, I don't think a regular schedule matters this year. I believe @ptatc has pointed out that for this year, it doesn't matter how he gets to his ~100 innings. I don't think he's going to be any better off come spring training 2022 if he built up his innings on a regular schedule this year.

Look, I completely understand both sides of the argument, and I wouldn't be upset if he started in AA. I just don't understand how people can say this is such a stupid move when it seems more like a decision that could go either way. 

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4 minutes ago, Quin said:

On one hand, it's what Buehrle and Sale did.

On the other, they had WAY more experience starting before taking this path.

I think the delayed minor league season is playing a big factor in this.

If he was starting in the minors, he wouldn't pitch a full season anyway. 

This is the White Sox's version of "this is one way we're all in - it just doesn't cost money, so we're going to do it". 

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As good as this guy looked, he isn't Chris Sale. Chris Sale wasn't clutching his arm after 5 innings.

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I think we also need to consider the possibility that there is nothing close to a full minor league season.

With no fans and corona prevention measures milb might become financially even less profitable and if milb starts in August or so maybe mlb is the only viable option

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On 2/3/2021 at 1:40 PM, Dick Allen said:

As good as this guy looked, he isn't Chris Sale. Chris Sale wasn't clutching his arm after 5 innings.

By the odds, probably correct. Throws  harder, but needs to work on secondary pitches. This does not seem like an optimal way to do that. Maybe the plan is, he doesn’t need to have a wide arsenal out of the pen. But if you want him to be a starter ASAP  want him stretching out in the minors working on his pitches.  They don’t even need him with the quality of this pen, and with Lopez and Rodon available. And there is no reason he can’t get his work in first at AA AAA and come out of the pen for the playoffs if things change. The context of this makes one curious what they really think of him as a starter. They have always said, needs of the club will never cancel out the need for properly developing prospects. Yet this plan basically ignored that rhetoric.

Edited by Fernando Tatis Jr

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21 hours ago, Fernando Tatis Jr said:

By the odds, probably correct. Throws  harder, but needs to work on secondary pitches. This does not seem like an optimal way to do that. Maybe the plan is, he doesn’t need to have a wide arsenal out of the pen. But if you want him to be a starter ASAP  want him stretching out in the minors working on his pitches.  They don’t even need him with the quality of this pen, and with Lopez and Rodon available. And there is no reason he can’t get his work in first at AA AAA and come out of the pen for the playoffs if things change. The context of this makes one curious what they really think of him as a starter. They have always said, needs of the club will never cancel out the need for properly developing prospects. Yet this plan basically ignored that rhetoric.

So here the rub... you’re on a Chicago White Sox message board and the user name you selected is a reminder of one of the worst trades ( if not the worst trade ) in franchise history.

People here have tried to forget that awful trash for years.

There’s likely other members here who find it a poor choice and can’t get into your post content simply because of your name. Please change it or go to San Diego.

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5 minutes ago, SoxBlanco said:

Wow, things just got very interesting. 

Why place a priority on the beginning of the season instead of the second half? 🤦‍♂
 

My guess is that they have determined they can get the most out of Kopech early with a somewhat weak schedule and then add a starter at the deadline when his innings are approaching the limit.

Edited by hi8is

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22 minutes ago, SoxBlanco said:

Wow, things just got very interesting. 

"He expects" isn't exactly what will happen. I'd still bet money on him being a lock for Charlotte to open the year (barring any some surprising really cheap extension).

 

Edit: I completely read the tweet wrong as Kopech expects.

Edited by manbearpuig
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7 minutes ago, aeichhor said:

 

Bruce Levine is gonna be so mad 

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6 minutes ago, aeichhor said:

 

... Why? Save the innings early in the season and get an extra year out of him. Ramp up the innings with the expectation that he will have to pitch in the playoffs. 

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They probably also figure that utilizing Kopech at the MLB level from the get go is a better use of his limited innings than having him in the minors for the first couple months.

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Giolito

DK

Lynn

Kopech

Cease

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59 minutes ago, aeichhor said:

 

Very different from what Merkin has been hinting at for some time.  And doesn’t really make sense when they just brought back Rodon and claimed he was fighting for the 5th rotation spot.

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50 minutes ago, Sleepy Harold said:

 

lol...there’s the correction coming from the front office and I’m personally glad to hear it!  Buy the extra year of team control and save as many innings possible for the second half of the season.

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52 minutes ago, hi8is said:

Giolito

DK

Lynn

Kopech

Cease

I'm going 6-man until May 11. If not 6-man, 6 day.  First 40 games, 7 starts for Giolito, Keuchel, Lynn, and Cease; 6 starts for Lopez and Rodon. Then Game 41-43 vs Twins is Giolito, Keuchel, Lynn. At least that would be the plan until weather/injuries changes it. Then Kopech gets in there when he earns it or somebody gets hurt, traded, etc. 

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1 hour ago, flavum said:

I'm going 6-man until May 11. If not 6-man, 6 day.  First 40 games, 7 starts for Giolito, Keuchel, Lynn, and Cease; 6 starts for Lopez and Rodon. Then Game 41-43 vs Twins is Giolito, Keuchel, Lynn. At least that would be the plan until weather/injuries changes it. Then Kopech gets in there when he earns it or somebody gets hurt, traded, etc. 

Seem like a good plan based on where the Sox sit now.  Maybe even schedule an occasional Crochet combo with Lopez and/or Rodon start.  Concerned with relying on either to finish off Kopech's spot after he's shut down though, especially if he turns out to be highly successful.  Could be as much as 4-6 weeks and possibly playoffs depending on Cease and others' performances.  Trading for another high quality SP before deadline seems inevitable or at least I hope so.  Unlikely that Lopez keeps his era under 5 and Rodon goes 100 innings without incident.    

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