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NFL 2021 offseason thread

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2 minutes ago, TheTruth05 said:

This is really it, and the fact Russ named the Bears is a huge win but I'll be honest, The saints scare the crap outta me. I can see them pulling whatever strings necessary to get someone like Russ because they're a well run, smart franchise and that's just what they do. Raiders have the ammo but I can see them not wanting to overpay someway,somehow. 

Yeah, here is the perfect storm.

Brees still wants another year and Russ wouldn't do him like that and Payton wouldn't do him like that.

Gruden re-commits to Carr with a new deal

Dallas seemed to rebuff pretty early.

Even with saints, the good news is bears won't be unable to provide similar package with draft compensation.

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8 minutes ago, bmags said:

Yeah, here is the perfect storm.

Brees still wants another year and Russ wouldn't do him like that and Payton wouldn't do him like that.

Gruden re-commits to Carr with a new deal

Dallas seemed to rebuff pretty early.

Even with saints, the good news is bears won't be unable to provide similar package with draft compensation.

Yea all this sounds good, the paranoid Bears fan in me though says what if Payton just pulls the rug under Brees feet and doesn't let him come back ala Packers/Favre and trade for Russ without consulting Brees. I can see them doing that especially with how Brees looked this past year.

Mayock and Gruden did a hell of a sell job the other day saying how they want Carr over any other qb LOL

Jerry Jones is too loyal to Dak to go for Russ

Pace needs to get it done

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It feels like there are a lot of legs to this Wilson stuff - whether Wilson expands his list or not - I don't know (does he have a on-trade?).  Curious how quickly Seattle will / won't make a move because I think it is far more expensive to make a move now vs. waiting until June 1st (although I suppose you could always make the move but just wait months to complete it - kind of like the Goff/Stafford deal (although that is just waiting for the new league year or something).  

If anything - has to also put a bit more pressure on the Texans - although I can't see the Texans making a move this far out - feels like they'll make a move, but probably leading into the draft - so I presume the Watson stove heats up a lot in late March/April.  

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I know cap hell is overrated but NO is like 60 million over IIRC. That's a lot to manuveur

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Mock drafts have become boring as everyone is just circling Mac Jones around the bears and then someone like Eichenberg in the 2nd.

I'm just a Russell Wilson boy now as it is more fun.

@Chisoxfn June 1st would save SEattle a ton of money, and I thought this article was good. I didn't think waiting was that big of a deal aside from the rookie not being able to participate in OTAs, but this article was good on another point - it would be a pain in the ass for SEattle if it wanted to package the picks they received from bears in draft day trades.

https://dabearsblog.com/2021/bears-need-to-force-action-on-russell-wilson

 

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3 hours ago, bmags said:

Mock drafts have become boring as everyone is just circling Mac Jones around the bears and then someone like Eichenberg in the 2nd.

I'm just a Russell Wilson boy now as it is more fun.

@Chisoxfn June 1st would save SEattle a ton of money, and I thought this article was good. I didn't think waiting was that big of a deal aside from the rookie not being able to participate in OTAs, but this article was good on another point - it would be a pain in the ass for SEattle if it wanted to package the picks they received from bears in draft day trades.

https://dabearsblog.com/2021/bears-need-to-force-action-on-russell-wilson

 

I'll be honest - if Mac Jones was there at 20 - I'd be exstatic - I just don't see a scenario where he is anywhere close to there at 20 and than you are moving up and probably giving up a 1st - at that point - what is another 1st rounder+ and more cap space between friends to get a Wilson / Watson or whatever. 

The hardest part of that article is - I just don't see why Seattle would eat that kind of cap space today - unless they are willing to punt a year to start the clock on getting a rookie scale QB in place and/or go another route (maybe take 2 bites - take one QB this year - and swing again next year) but know that you built up maximum ammunition to do one last run before Carrol retires.  

The good thing is - that front office / HC combo have a ton of swagger and cloud and I think they have a lot of confidence (right or wrong) that they can make anything work - which might increase their willingness to let a franchise QB go.   

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11 minutes ago, Chisoxfn said:

I'll be honest - if Mac Jones was there at 20 - I'd be exstatic - I just don't see a scenario where he is anywhere close to there at 20 and than you are moving up and probably giving up a 1st - at that point - what is another 1st rounder+ and more cap space between friends to get a Wilson / Watson or whatever. 

The hardest part of that article is - I just don't see why Seattle would eat that kind of cap space today - unless they are willing to punt a year to start the clock on getting a rookie scale QB in place and/or go another route (maybe take 2 bites - take one QB this year - and swing again next year) but know that you built up maximum ammunition to do one last run before Carrol retires.  

The good thing is - that front office / HC combo have a ton of swagger and cloud and I think they have a lot of confidence (right or wrong) that they can make anything work - which might increase their willingness to let a franchise QB go.   

Yeah, here's one scenario that's kinda dominos and wild.

Bears acquire Wilson with picks and stuff

Seattle acquires Jimmy G and restructures deal with some signing bonus with some bears future 1st or some draft capital

San Fran moves up for X QB that shanahan loves using picks from Bears via Seattle.

Seattle drafts that notre dame LB and a new OT in first, and more etc.

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6 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

I love the foodies are now football insiders as well!

 

It feels like if you are Pace - you want to see if you can do this - you are kind of playing 3D chess consistently - what is value of Watson - what is cost of Wilson - who do I prefer - what is cost of trade-up - how do I grade those QB's - how do I disconnect for the unknown.  

It is tough - but this is one of those times I kind of like knowing Pace is in that chair - because he is going to swing big. He might have a big miss - but I'd rather swing and miss trying to hit a homerun (which is what I always think when it comes to QB). 

I get everyone says Mitch is his biggest mistake - I would rank it really low on my list - in fact, I'd go as far as to say they recognized pretty quickly once the wheels fell off that they wanted to go in a different direction - but made a mistake in how they pivoted (with Foles - but last years marketplace was a lot different - so I can't really say there was a better option for Pace a year ago - all of the FA guys ended up sucking / not making an impact - and I don't know that he had enough urgency to go move up and pay an aggressive price for a top QB (or maybe they didn't love the grades on any of them  - cause you had to move pretty darn high to get Herbert).  

I think Pace's biggest misses were:

  • giving as much up for Mack as they did (it was an all-in move - but I always thought it was a year too early and that move hindered Pace's ability to be more aggressive in other areas - kind of put your chips in too soon vs. waiting for more of the hand to play out so you could be more strategic with how to play those chips.  Again - not a knock on Mack and the trade - cause I think the value was fair - just not the best use of the franchise resources (and that is coming from someone who thinks a pass rushing end is the next most important position in football behind QB (or maybe 3rd most behind the LT that protects the blind side).  
  • Trading up in the draft and not building as much draft capital as you did for the lower impact positions - Floyd is probably the most reasonable - because a move up for an impact rusher (or who you thought would be that) can at least be partially justified - but the constant one-sided move on the asset side doesn't hold up. The Miller trade in particular and just the constant mortgaging of chips vs. the more strategic balancing (its good to be aggressive - but you can't be aggressive on all things all the time - said another way - you can't always live off credit - at some point you have to build your bank accounts
  • Too much cap space on older / one dimensional players - Tight Ends (Simms) / Quinn & Graham (Older and / or too much of a premium because the team didn't have necessary draft) / Danny T vs. Kwit (I get this - focused on leadership - but not good to bet on older players - especially one who play positions where speed matters)

On the other side - I've always liked Pace's willingness to admit his mistakes fast - Glennon, Trubisky (relatively speaking - they pulled the cord quicker than most franchises would - probably a full year sooner), Simms, etc.  Take it for what you want - because it also means he has made his fair share of mistakes - but every GM does. Just look at Bill B - I've long said he's an excellent coach and a horrible drafter.  

I've also felt that he does a pretty good finding value in Day 2 / Day 3 and has been very good at being proactive in use of more modern technology and strength & conditioning type stuff.  

I don't really know the purpose of these rants - but man - I just want to know we have a QB to be excited for (or another person who I can be delusional that might have the promise to one day be special - kind of like I did that 1st preseason game where Trubisky was just throwing dimes everywhere).  

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30 minutes ago, Chisoxfn said:

It feels like if you are Pace - you want to see if you can do this - you are kind of playing 3D chess consistently - what is value of Watson - what is cost of Wilson - who do I prefer - what is cost of trade-up - how do I grade those QB's - how do I disconnect for the unknown.  

It is tough - but this is one of those times I kind of like knowing Pace is in that chair - because he is going to swing big. He might have a big miss - but I'd rather swing and miss trying to hit a homerun (which is what I always think when it comes to QB). 

I get everyone says Mitch is his biggest mistake - I would rank it really low on my list - in fact, I'd go as far as to say they recognized pretty quickly once the wheels fell off that they wanted to go in a different direction - but made a mistake in how they pivoted (with Foles - but last years marketplace was a lot different - so I can't really say there was a better option for Pace a year ago - all of the FA guys ended up sucking / not making an impact - and I don't know that he had enough urgency to go move up and pay an aggressive price for a top QB (or maybe they didn't love the grades on any of them  - cause you had to move pretty darn high to get Herbert).  

I think Pace's biggest misses were:

  • giving as much up for Mack as they did (it was an all-in move - but I always thought it was a year too early and that move hindered Pace's ability to be more aggressive in other areas - kind of put your chips in too soon vs. waiting for more of the hand to play out so you could be more strategic with how to play those chips.  Again - not a knock on Mack and the trade - cause I think the value was fair - just not the best use of the franchise resources (and that is coming from someone who thinks a pass rushing end is the next most important position in football behind QB (or maybe 3rd most behind the LT that protects the blind side).  
  • Trading up in the draft and not building as much draft capital as you did for the lower impact positions - Floyd is probably the most reasonable - because a move up for an impact rusher (or who you thought would be that) can at least be partially justified - but the constant one-sided move on the asset side doesn't hold up. The Miller trade in particular and just the constant mortgaging of chips vs. the more strategic balancing (its good to be aggressive - but you can't be aggressive on all things all the time - said another way - you can't always live off credit - at some point you have to build your bank accounts
  • Too much cap space on older / one dimensional players - Tight Ends (Simms) / Quinn & Graham (Older and / or too much of a premium because the team didn't have necessary draft) / Danny T vs. Kwit (I get this - focused on leadership - but not good to bet on older players - especially one who play positions where speed matters)

On the other side - I've always liked Pace's willingness to admit his mistakes fast - Glennon, Trubisky (relatively speaking - they pulled the cord quicker than most franchises would - probably a full year sooner), Simms, etc.  Take it for what you want - because it also means he has made his fair share of mistakes - but every GM does. Just look at Bill B - I've long said he's an excellent coach and a horrible drafter.  

I've also felt that he does a pretty good finding value in Day 2 / Day 3 and has been very good at being proactive in use of more modern technology and strength & conditioning type stuff.  

I don't really know the purpose of these rants - but man - I just want to know we have a QB to be excited for (or another person who I can be delusional that might have the promise to one day be special - kind of like I did that 1st preseason game where Trubisky was just throwing dimes everywhere).  

I think one of the bigger issues was in 2015 when they had a top 10 pick but the top 10 wasn't set-up that well for them they took Kevin White. They weren't really in the place where a top 10 receiver made sense, they knew they were going into a massive rebuild after 2014 and post-Jay.

That draft alone could have built up some additional draft capital. The next year they traded up for Floyd, the next Mitch, the next Miller, the next Montgomery and Foles. So aside from MAck, just that 2015 draft may have helped keep the backsliding where they were constantly behind picks wise.

Basically if Pace likes a guy, fine, I am fine with it. But if he doesn't have that same "conviction", trade down since he knows he likes to trade up. That said, bears also always seemed to be one pick behind that "pivot point" where every team is trying to move up for a guy. Just missed on Leonard Williams, 49ers were in drivers seat in 2017, etc.

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7 minutes ago, bmags said:

I think one of the bigger issues was in 2015 when they had a top 10 pick but the top 10 wasn't set-up that well for them they took Kevin White. They weren't really in the place where a top 10 receiver made sense, they knew they were going into a massive rebuild after 2014 and post-Jay.

That draft alone could have built up some additional draft capital. The next year they traded up for Floyd, the next Mitch, the next Miller, the next Montgomery and Foles. So aside from MAck, just that 2015 draft may have helped keep the backsliding where they were constantly behind picks wise.

Basically if Pace likes a guy, fine, I am fine with it. But if he doesn't have that same "conviction", trade down since he knows he likes to trade up. That said, bears also always seemed to be one pick behind that "pivot point" where every team is trying to move up for a guy. Just missed on Leonard Williams, 49ers were in drivers seat in 2017, etc.

Very well said.  

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7 minutes ago, Chisoxfn said:

Very well said.  

The pick I'll always remember (and this goes back to a different regime) - is I always expected Aaron Donald to be the Bears pick.  I remember when it flipped to the Rams - I mentally thought - yes - we are set - they can not possibly draft another 1st round dlinemen (at the time I think they had like 4 recent 1st round picks all on the dline and had to look at offense) - but sure enough Fisher pulled the trigger and went with the "undersized" Donald.  

I have no idea what the Bears would have looked like with Donald - but that was one of those times where I really was like CRAP - the team in front of us got our guy. On White - I think you are right - that said - White before his injury was never viewed as a reach - but to your point - was he really needed given the LT plan (vs. trade down and built up of line or something else).  

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19 hours ago, Chicago White Sox said:

I love the foodies are now football insiders as well!

 

I'd love to have Wilson but I'm having a hard time seeing how the Bears can acquire him, and still have the cap space and/or draft resources to get an offensive line that doens't get him killed.

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51 minutes ago, WhiteSoxFan1993 said:

I'd love to have Wilson but I'm having a hard time seeing how the Bears can acquire him, and still have the cap space and/or draft resources to get an offensive line that doens't get him killed.

I don’t find this that hard TBH. But I also feel like RT is the one area we can get an upgrade easily and am a believer in our new interior.

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Not just the OL, but a team around him.  Its probably costing them what 2-3 first round picks?  Maybe 2 first round and some other stuff. 

It would still be worth a shot.  I think it would be fun at the very least.

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8 hours ago, WhiteSoxFan1993 said:

I'd love to have Wilson but I'm having a hard time seeing how the Bears can acquire him, and still have the cap space and/or draft resources to get an offensive line that doens't get him killed.

The OL at the end of the year was just fine, specifically the interior and now Daniels is coming back. The Bears OL is far better than Seattle's.

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2 hours ago, soxfan49 said:

The OL at the end of the year was just fine, specifically the interior and now Daniels is coming back. The Bears OL is far better than Seattle's.

The OL looked good against 4 shit teams when the Bears scored 30+ points. When they played the Packers and Saints they didn't look so good.

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12 hours ago, WhiteSoxFan1993 said:

The OL looked good against 4 shit teams when the Bears scored 30+ points. When they played the Packers and Saints they didn't look so good.

The Bears OL looked bad against the Packers and Saints? They gave up 2 sacks in those 2 games

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6 hours ago, soxfan49 said:

The Bears OL looked bad against the Packers and Saints? They gave up 2 sacks in those 2 games

Trubisky is mobile enough to avoid tons of sacks, but there was absolutely zero space for the running backs to gain yards, and Trubisky had to complete make a bunch of 4 yard throws because that's all the time he had.

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I kind of feel like the Bears are going to end up with Russ. Don’t know why, feel like they are going to pull it off. 

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2 hours ago, Tony said:

I kind of feel like the Bears are going to end up with Russ. Don’t know why, feel like they are going to pull it off. 

I think they get Watson - either way - I think they are going to get one of the two big names.  In other news - I believe the Bears announced they will be cutting Massie.  

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2 hours ago, Chisoxfn said:

I think they get Watson - either way - I think they are going to get one of the two big names.  In other news - I believe the Bears announced they will be cutting Massie.  

I know this is stupid and I’m on the minority here... but I really think Pace would rather not go down the Watson road as the QB that replaces Mitch. He’ll be giving up a ton of capital to replace a failed No. 1 pick when he could have just drafted Watson. Yes, the Bears will get their QB 1 but you know that narrative is going to be out there. 
 

With Russ...that doesn’t exist. On top of it, you have a superstar QB that seemingly wants to come to Chicago. I don’t know, I think the Bears get crazy and do it. 

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21 minutes ago, Tony said:

I know this is stupid and I’m on the minority here... but I really think Pace would rather not go down the Watson road as the QB that replaces Mitch. He’ll be giving up a ton of capital to replace a failed No. 1 pick when he could have just drafted Watson. Yes, the Bears will get their QB 1 but you know that narrative is going to be out there. 
 

With Russ...that doesn’t exist. On top of it, you have a superstar QB that seemingly wants to come to Chicago. I don’t know, I think the Bears get crazy and do it. 

You are probably right - I legit don’t know which qb I would want more. Wilson is older - but he sure has been good his entire career and still should have a number of good years left. 
 

Watson on the other hand could solve the position for ten years - making the price you pay for him so worth it. 
 

Id rather see if bears can built a team around a top qb with less picks than see bears continue to have a mediocre to bad qb and wonder if they can somehow strike gold and be the rare team to win a super bowl with a Dilfer/Flacco like qb. 

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I am just in the mindset that the possibility of two top 5 QBs trying to force their way out in one offseason is incredible, it is franchise altering, and I'm glad the Bears appear to be taking it as seriously as they are. As was the case when I died on the Mookie Betts hill, when incredible players become available, go get them. But it was important to distinguish best players in game vs just good to very good. And somehow, two incredible players are pushing to become available.

It is why I'm getting so annoyed by Bears fan discourse that is so negative in pushing back because "it's never going to happen".

It is in incredibly unlikely that franchise QBs move! It is another step in that that the Bears would be the ones that get them. So yes, the most likely outcome is that neither get traded, or get traded to a different team, but there is a much higher likelihood than there was in November that the bears could acquire a top 5 QB via trade.

It is all about process right now. Two QBs are trying to move, the teams are reluctant to move them, and the bears need to do everything they can to make the move happen.

But everything after that "you still have to build an oline!" "you still need to build the team around them" blah blah, yeah sometimes! Sometimes it works where the QB is added to an assembled team! Sometimes! But it is really hard to time, so just go get good players in football. 

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4 minutes ago, bmags said:

I am just in the mindset that the possibility of two top 5 QBs trying to force their way out in one offseason is incredible, it is franchise altering, and I'm glad the Bears appear to be taking it as seriously as they are. As was the case when I died on the Mookie Betts hill, when incredible players become available, go get them. But it was important to distinguish best players in game vs just good to very good. And somehow, two incredible players are pushing to become available.

It is why I'm getting so annoyed by Bears fan discourse that is so negative in pushing back because "it's never going to happen".

It is in incredibly unlikely that franchise QBs move! It is another step in that that the Bears would be the ones that get them. So yes, the most likely outcome is that neither get traded, or get traded to a different team, but there is a much higher likelihood than there was in November that the bears could acquire a top 5 QB via trade.

It is all about process right now. Two QBs are trying to move, the teams are reluctant to move them, and the bears need to do everything they can to make the move happen.

But everything after that "you still have to build an oline!" "you still need to build the team around them" blah blah, yeah sometimes! Sometimes it works where the QB is added to an assembled team! Sometimes! But it is really hard to time, so just go get good players in football. 

I don't think Tampa fans were like "oh yea Brady is coming here" when we all found out that he really was going to be a free agent.   Weird stuff happens sometimes and you have to be ready.

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