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Greydawgfan1

Madrigal.

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Posted (edited)

Dudes here to stay. They aren’t going to drop him. Especially for a super utility guy who has never made an opening roster. Some of you guys should just accept it. 

Edited by Greydawgfan1
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You know that scene in “Being John Malkovich” where he goes inside his own head and the only thing anyone can say is “Malkovich!”? The thread title with Madrigal written as. Complete sentence made me think of that.

Whole team having conversations saying nothing but “Madrigal. Madrigal Madrigal? Madrigal Madrigal Madrigal. Madrigal!”

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6 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

You know that scene in “Being John Malkovich” where he goes inside his own head and the only thing anyone can say is “Malkovich!”? The thread title with Madrigal written as. Complete sentence made me think of that.

Whole team having conversations saying nothing but “Madrigal. Madrigal Madrigal? Madrigal Madrigal Madrigal. Madrigal!”

Imagine a Luis Robert body with a Nick Madrigal head.

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32 singles and 3 doubles in 103 at bats made up that .340 batting average

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6 minutes ago, hi8is said:

Imagine a Luis Robert body with a Nick Madrigal head.

Benetti and Stone trying to figure out how to do the Nationwide jingle

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15 minutes ago, hi8is said:

Imagine a Luis Robert body with a Nick Madrigal head.

It would make Robert even faster because there would be less drag from his newly installed little, tiny head. 

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11 minutes ago, Kalapse said:

32 singles and 3 doubles in 103 at bats made up that .340 batting average

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1 hour ago, Greydawgfan1 said:

Dudes here to stay. They aren’t going to drop him. Especially for a super utility guy who has never made an opening roster. Some of you guys should just accept it. 

Why wouldn't you put this in the thread that's about this?

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1 hour ago, Kalapse said:

32 singles and 3 doubles in 103 at bats made up that .340 batting average

There is just no way to make .340 sound bad.

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1 minute ago, poppysox said:

There is just no way to make .340 sound bad.

Players have had hot streaks over the same amount of games (small sample size) where they probably hit similar/better.

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2 minutes ago, manbearpuig said:

Players have had hot streaks over the same amount of games (small sample size) where they probably hit similar/better.

Strikeout 5.5% (Madrigal's career rate) of the time and you're going to have a lot of streaks where you regularly bat above .300.

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Just now, maxjusttyped said:

Strikeout 5.5% (Madrigal's career rate) of the time and you're going to have a lot of streaks where you regularly bat above .300.

Lets hope.

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1 minute ago, manbearpuig said:

Players have had hot streaks over the same amount of games (small sample size) where they probably hit similar/better.

 

Yes, I know.  Virtually nothing is being for the first time. 

 

 

 


 

2 minutes ago, manbearpuig said:

Players have had hot streaks over the same amount of games (small sample size) where they probably hit similar/better.

 

 

 

 

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Posted (edited)
14 hours ago, Greydawgfan1 said:

Dudes here to stay. They aren’t going to drop him. Especially for a super utility guy who has never made an opening roster. Some of you guys should just accept it. 

I don't think even the most concerned fans have ever entertained the fact that he wasn't going to be the starting 2B for the foreseeable future, possibly even the entire window, if even if there was little to no improvement.


I think the "hate" is one part fans trying to argue advanced metrics vs traditional stats and the other is people "I told you so'ing" the front office for using such a high pick on a player with Nick's ceiling.  

 

Outside of not making any obvious errors, Nick has been the same Nick from the other thread this past week.  Yet the victory laps have already begun? 

Edited by GREEDY
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5 minutes ago, GREEDY said:

I don't think even the most concerned fans have ever entertained the fact that he wasn't going to be the starting 2B for the foreseeable future, possibly even the entire window, if even if there was little to no improvement.


I think the "hate" is one part fans trying to argue advanced metrics vs traditional stats and the other is people "I told you so'ing" the front office for using such a high pick on a player with Nick's ceiling.  

 

Outside of not making any obvious errors, Nick has been the same Nick from the other thread this past week.  Yet the victory laps have already begun? 

No victory laps yet but he does have a high ceiling. Games like last night prove he can hit also. I think it’s worse to push he’s a bust at this point than to push he’s the future 2nd basemen. 

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3 hours ago, Greydawgfan1 said:

 he does have a high ceiling. 

Ok, I'll take the bait.

What stat line do you think Madrigal can achieve that would constitute fulfillment of said ceiling?

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The hyperbole around any Madrigal discussion is annoying as hell. For me, perhaps for others but I'll speak for myself as someone who's been critical of Nick: Nick Madrigal has been assumed to be a low ceiling, high floor player, he has not shown the floor to this point. In his limited big league experience Nick has proven to possess 1 real skill (beyond his 1 assumed ability: plate coverage/K avoidance) and that's hitting singles, he's clearly very good at it, he has not proven, through his play on the field, much else. This does not mean he can't or won't be a plus defender or baserunner or hit for any power at all, it just means he has not done it yet in the big leagues and has in fact shown the opposite of those abilities. He very well may be very good. I badly hope he becomes a very good baseball player, that would kick ass for the team and Nick seems like a good guy, I'm just not going to assume he'll get there. That's all, I do not have enough faith in Nick Madrigal's abilities to presume it'll all come together in the end. It's really hard to overlook a sub .100 ISO (around .030 for his career right now) when he's not doing the other things well. He has not played near enough to make a true determination on his future IMO, it's just, his draft pedigree and the hollow .340 batting average he put up in 29 games and 103 AB's is doing a lot of heavy lifting in discussions around here.

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13 minutes ago, Kalapse said:

The hyperbole around any Madrigal discussion is annoying as hell. For me, perhaps for others but I'll speak for myself as someone who's been critical of Nick: Nick Madrigal has been assumed to be a low ceiling, high floor player, he has not shown the floor to this point. In his limited big league experience Nick has proven to possess 1 real skill (beyond his 1 assumed ability: plate coverage/K avoidance) and that's hitting singles, he's clearly very good at it, he has not proven, through his play on the field, much else. This does not mean he can't or won't be a plus defender or baserunner or hit for any power at all, it just means he has not done it yet in the big leagues and has in fact shown the opposite of those abilities. He very well may be very good. I badly hope he becomes a very good baseball player, that would kick ass for the team and Nick seems like a good guy, I'm just not going to assume he'll get there. That's all, I do not have enough faith in Nick Madrigal's abilities to presume it'll all come together in the end. It's really hard to overlook a sub .100 ISO (around .030 for his career right now) when he's not doing the other things well. He has not played near enough to make a true determination on his future IMO, it's just, his draft pedigree and the hollow .340 batting average he put up in 29 games and 103 AB's is doing a lot of heavy lifting in discussions around here.

A lot of good points here, but I also think a lot of people struggle with the concept of a maturity curve for young players (see Robert, Vaughn, etc).  Yes, some guys come up and light the world on fire, but most young players take time before they hit their stride.  The reality is outside of an elite ability to make contact, we don’t know what Nick will look like as a finished player.  He almost certainly will never hit for 15 to 20 HRs like some speculated at time of draft, but the defense, base-running, and basic gap power remain TBD.  I think he eventually improves in all three areas, but how much will determine whether he’s a second division starter or a non-flashy but plenty valuable ~3 win player.  It’s totally fair to be disappointed with him so far and in particular for passing on guys like Kelenic to select him, but it’s way too early to draw too hard of conclusions on the bulk of his game.

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I know he's 24. I know he'll never hit homers. I also know he's had less than 200 MLB plate appearances and  40 or so starts at second base.

Just give him a few months before making any final judgements. Lots of good players didn't excel on day 1.

 

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13 minutes ago, zisk said:

I know he's 24. I know he'll never hit homers. I also know he's had less than 200 MLB plate appearances and  40 or so starts at second base.

Just give him a few months before making any final judgements. Lots of good players didn't excel on day 1.

 

Actually, most (if not virtually all) of them simply do not.

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21 minutes ago, RagahRagah said:

Actually, most (if not virtually all) of them simply do not.

Sometimes they do, like Luis Robert, and then they hit a wall they have to get past, like Luis Robert

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He has 0.5 bWAR through 40 games, a pace of 2.0+ per 162. As long as he makes improvement enough to get to 2.5/162 I’m good. I think he can get there. 

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7 hours ago, Kalapse said:

The hyperbole around any Madrigal discussion is annoying as hell. For me, perhaps for others but I'll speak for myself as someone who's been critical of Nick: Nick Madrigal has been assumed to be a low ceiling, high floor player, he has not shown the floor to this point. In his limited big league experience Nick has proven to possess 1 real skill (beyond his 1 assumed ability: plate coverage/K avoidance) and that's hitting singles, he's clearly very good at it, he has not proven, through his play on the field, much else. This does not mean he can't or won't be a plus defender or baserunner or hit for any power at all, it just means he has not done it yet in the big leagues and has in fact shown the opposite of those abilities. He very well may be very good. I badly hope he becomes a very good baseball player, that would kick ass for the team and Nick seems like a good guy, I'm just not going to assume he'll get there. That's all, I do not have enough faith in Nick Madrigal's abilities to presume it'll all come together in the end. It's really hard to overlook a sub .100 ISO (around .030 for his career right now) when he's not doing the other things well. He has not played near enough to make a true determination on his future IMO, it's just, his draft pedigree and the hollow .340 batting average he put up in 29 games and 103 AB's is doing a lot of heavy lifting in discussions around here.

Bruh.

One thing in Nick's favor is that he's the rare bird that takes walks despite swinging a wet noodle of a bat.  I don't know if he can sustain a 360-370 OBP with a .30 ISO.  I guess we'll find out.  

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