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Madrigal.

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14 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

Oak Park Ray sounds like a caller into the Cubs' post-game show on The Score...

About as lucid and accurate as well. 

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Posted (edited)
27 minutes ago, South Side Hit Men said:

It’s hard to go lower than 0% accurate, but you managed to top yourself.

Three year projections, or is this Madrigal’s last season as he rides with Tony and David Eckstein into the sunset. Mendick, a backup at best, has bested Madrigal the past two seasons.

https://www.fangraphs.com/players/jarred-kelenic/sa3007741/stats?position=OF#zips-3-year-projections

Are you disputing the USA Today’s 22 year MLB Draft analysis? Anything to counter? 

Don’t give up Oak Park Ray, one decade, perhaps this one, you’ll be tall enough to enjoy the ride and perhaps have an accurate post.

Pac 12 Baseball, clap, clap, clap clap clap!

CDE792AA-3017-48AF-9028-F509AD86EC0E.jpeg

So in 3 years he's projected to achieve a lower WAR than madrigal was projected for before he debuted at the same age. That's your dunk? Zips projected madrigal to be a 3.3 war player this year in less than 500 at bats. 

Madrigal projection has changed because he has actual big league at bats. Kelenic does not. Usa today? What?

Yes, I'm saying you pounding your chest about how Madrigal sucks and they clearly should have drafted kelenic who hasn't even played a mlb game is laughable. There's zero guarantee kelenic is an actual productive big leaguer however much you want to proclaim otherwise.

Edited by Look at Ray Ray Run
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39 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

Oak Park Ray sounds like a caller into the Cubs' post-game show on The Score...

Oak Park Ray and Chris Rongey would totally go at it on the Sox post-game show. 

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44 minutes ago, South Side Hit Men said:

It’s hard to go lower than 0% accurate, but you managed to top yourself.

Three year projections, or is this Madrigal’s last season as he rides with Tony and David Eckstein into the sunset. Mendick, a backup at best, has bested Madrigal the past two seasons.

https://www.fangraphs.com/players/jarred-kelenic/sa3007741/stats?position=OF#zips-3-year-projections

Are you disputing the USA Today’s 22 year MLB Draft analysis? Anything to counter? 

Don’t give up Oak Park Ray, one decade, perhaps this one, you’ll be tall enough to enjoy the ride and perhaps have an accurate post.

Pac 12 Baseball, clap, clap, clap clap clap!

CDE792AA-3017-48AF-9028-F509AD86EC0E.jpeg

1. Nick Madrigal is for all intents and purposes still a ROOKIE. Why do so many of you refuse to let prospects develop and adjust?

2. You are looking like a gigantic fucking douchebag with all this smarmy rhetoric and pictures of children. Ironically it's more a portrait that represents the maturity of your behavior. I'll take being short over being an asshole any day. 

Grow the hell up.

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The posting of pictures of children and gifs of dwarves is a bit strange my man

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24 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

So in 3 years he's projected to achieve a lower WAR than madrigal was projected for before he debuted at the same age. That's your dunk? Zips projected madrigal to be a 3.3 war player this year in less than 500 at bats. 

Madrigal projection has changed because he has actual big league at bats. Kelenic does not. Usa today? What?

Yes, I'm saying you pounding your chest about how Madrigal sucks and they clearly should have drafted kelenic who hasn't even played a mlb game is laughable. There's zero guarantee kelenic is an actual productive big leaguer however much you want to proclaim otherwise.

The link lists WAR for all 30 teams. It’s simple math, though it’s appears to math eludes you. There is zero guarantee of a thing in life. However, Madrigal was touted as a plug and okay smart baseball IQ player, and he has been anything but.

@RagahRagah, seriously, pot calling kettle. I literally said the jury is out on how he will ultimately fare if you read the post. However, that wasn’t good enough for the Stans. What we have through 3 months of baseball is underperformance to a career backup, and three crucial errors in Game Two that made Jerry Dybzinski look like a competent baserunner. 

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I will never understand the desire to be the first person to overreact to a small sample size and write off a young player.  Nick Madrigal has 45 fucking games of major league experience.  Him making some dumb plays in the field and on the bases does NOT mean he will forever be bad in those areas.  Good god some the takes here are scathing hot.  And even worse are people who seem to hate him simply due his height.  I hope when Nick Madrigal goes home after a game to his million dollar house and bangs his hot as fuck girlfriend that he’s laughing at these chumps who rip his height or post pictures of dwarves on the internet in some pathetic attempt at mocking someone who has probably accomplished more in a day than they’ve accomplished in a lifetime.

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1 hour ago, Chicago White Sox said:

I will never understand the desire to be the first person to overreact to a small sample size and write off a young player.  Nick Madrigal has 45 fucking games of major league experience.  Him making some dumb plays in the field and on the bases does NOT mean he will forever be bad in those areas.  Good god some the takes here are scathing hot.  And even worse are people who seem to hate him simply due his height.  I hope when Nick Madrigal goes home after a game to his million dollar house and bangs his hot as fuck girlfriend that he’s laughing at these chumps who rip his height or post pictures of dwarves on the internet in some pathetic attempt at mocking someone who has probably accomplished more in a day than they’ve accomplished in a lifetime.

I get big incel energy from those posters. It's pathetic. 

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Posted (edited)
9 minutes ago, YoYoIsMyHero said:

I get big incel energy from those posters. It's pathetic. 

I guess their manhood is being challenged directly by his success...the opposite of the Napoleon Complex.

I mean, it's not like his parents gave him a couple of million to invest in Bitcoin, Dogecoin and Tesla.  At his height/size, he became the best high school hitter in the country against all odds...and continued that success at Oregon State.

Edited by caulfield12
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Nick Madrigal is my idol.

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Posted (edited)
7 hours ago, South Side Hit Men said:

The link lists WAR for all 30 teams. It’s simple math, though it’s appears to math eludes you. There is zero guarantee of a thing in life. However, Madrigal was touted as a plug and okay smart baseball IQ player, and he has been anything but.

@RagahRagah, seriously, pot calling kettle. I literally said the jury is out on how he will ultimately fare if you read the post. However, that wasn’t good enough for the Stans. What we have through 3 months of baseball is underperformance to a career backup, and three crucial errors in Game Two that made Jerry Dybzinski look like a competent baserunner. 

That has nothing to do with you posting pictures of children and essentially name-calling. There is no reason for that. You look like a douche.

No, there is no pot here. I have never done what you are doing. Don't try to deflect and project, you're alone on this one.

Edited by RagahRagah

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Ok I retract my earlier complaint about arguing over the 9 Madrigal hypothetical, @GREEDY Please start this back up 

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Anyone see his girlfriend? Think he’s doing pretty well in life. 

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1 hour ago, Kyyle23 said:

Ok I retract my earlier complaint about arguing over the 9 Madrigal hypothetical, @GREEDY Please start this back up 

I didn't start that.

And I'm done with this.  No problem with Nick, people are trying to make this about his personal worth?  C'mon.

No hate towards Nick personally.  Strictly befuddlement that many here have said that .350 obp, zero power and "slightly above average defense" makes him a fine player, because it does not.

If he isn't the best defender in the league that won't work.  If he doesn't lead the league in OBP by a significant margin, that won't work.  If he doesn't find a way to hit for some power, that won't work.  Nothing has changed since he was drafted and we had the same arguments.  You guys are still wrong. 

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9 hours ago, Chicago White Sox said:

I will never understand the desire to be the first person to overreact to a small sample size and write off a young player.  Nick Madrigal has 45 fucking games of major league experience.  Him making some dumb plays in the field and on the bases does NOT mean he will forever be bad in those areas.  Good god some the takes here are scathing hot.  And even worse are people who seem to hate him simply due his height.  I hope when Nick Madrigal goes home after a game to his million dollar house and bangs his hot as fuck girlfriend that he’s laughing at these chumps who rip his height or post pictures of dwarves on the internet in some pathetic attempt at mocking someone who has probably accomplished more in a day than they’ve accomplished in a lifetime.

Damn you mad as hell.  Whoa.

Or maybe Madrigal is an overhyped average-at-best player whose strengths are masked by all of these weaknesses he has which were sold to the fanbase as strengths as he was coming up.  And people are having a little fun with it as they do with everything else.  

But go ahead and cheer on your little Keebler Elf.

As they say, size does matter, except when a player proves it doesn't.  Little Nicky is proving in his case, size does matter.  He's no Dustin Pedroia, that's for sure.

Will he stop making so many stupid mistakes?  Maybe, but how can anyone reasonably expect him to develop the arm strength, speed, and power that should be required to make him anything better than a fringe starter / bench player on a playoff team and one of the worst / definite bottom third all-around starting 2B in baseball year after year?

I mean this is a guy who has 1 strength.  Every single starting player in MLB has at least 1 strength.  Maybe his 1 strength in contact ability is elite, but there's not enough going on with it to make him a top-end starting 2B, no where near it, and this is a team expected to contend.  

Madrigal is an easily tradeable player if someone else wants him.  Although I do believe the Sox found out this offseason that Madrigal's value is probably half of what they thought it was and that no team is going to give up a difference maker of an MLB player or even a prospect for him without the Sox adding a lot more.

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Old Prospector: How do you feel about Nick Madrigal’s long-term potential his unusual skill set? What about Luis Arraez?
 
Kevin Goldstein: I really struggle with Madrigal and think he’s quite overrated by most prospect folks. He’s hitting .300 right now (which is real) and his OPS is just 737. Feels like he  need to hit .330 to get to .800 and he’s just such an empty average hitter. Unique player, but not as valuable as some might think.

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5 minutes ago, Harold's Leg Lift said:
Old Prospector: How do you feel about Nick Madrigal’s long-term potential his unusual skill set? What about Luis Arraez?
 
Kevin Goldstein: I really struggle with Madrigal and think he’s quite overrated by most prospect folks. He’s hitting .300 right now (which is real) and his OPS is just 737. Feels like he  need to hit .330 to get to .800 and he’s just such an empty average hitter. Unique player, but not as valuable as some might think.

This is such nonsense. Again he's an above average offensive player with that 737 ops. 800 would put him nearly 20% better than league average. To say he's a bust if he's not 20% better than league average is just blah.

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9 hours ago, South Side Hit Men said:

The link lists WAR for all 30 teams. It’s simple math, though it’s appears to math eludes you. There is zero guarantee of a thing in life. However, Madrigal was touted as a plug and okay smart baseball IQ player, and he has been anything but.

@RagahRagah, seriously, pot calling kettle. I literally said the jury is out on how he will ultimately fare if you read the post. However, that wasn’t good enough for the Stans. What we have through 3 months of baseball is underperformance to a career backup, and three crucial errors in Game Two that made Jerry Dybzinski look like a competent baserunner. 

The link leads to a 3 year zips projection for kelenic which is lower than the war projection for madrigal preseason at the same age. So I'm not sure what is simple math. You need help.

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Posted (edited)
8 hours ago, caulfield12 said:

I guess their manhood is being challenged directly by his success...the opposite of the Napoleon Complex.

I mean, it's not like his parents gave him a couple of million to invest in Bitcoin, Dogecoin and Tesla.  At his height/size, he became the best high school hitter in the country against all odds...and continued that success at Oregon State.

I'm not deflecting from the arguments against him. They make some good points. But again, the sample size is less than half a fucking season and a poster I responsed to apparently wanted to compare half a season to 5 years. People are letting their bias against Nick make them say some pretty stupid things.

We do not yet know what Nick will amount to. Hell, we still don't know what Moncada will amount to. Or Vaughn. Do those players have higher ceilings? Yes. Does that guarantee they will be better. No. So if Nick continues to hit over .300 and not strike out as a 9 HOLE HITTER but not hit HRs then he's not useful and needs to be replaced because every single hitter on our team will needto be an absolute superstar? Even if he plays better defense? Fucking dumb and even delusional takes.

As far as the complex, it's like with LBJ. Hateful NBA fans have to cling to hatred of him for tons of reasons that are hypocritical or make no sense at all. The guy overall has been pretty cool. But if he acts like a "douche" from time to time he's a piece of shit. Yet these same people act like a douche IN GENERAL. What's the difference? IMO it's because they realize no one knows who THEY are but everyone knows who LBJ is. In short, jealousy. And it's a stupid and immature way to level dislike towards someone. People wanna take everyone else's inventory but not their own. We're all assholes sometimes, but is that constant and does it define you? If so, you don't need to be lecturing others on decorum. 

Edited by RagahRagah

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WTF is wrong with some of you.  The kid has played approximately 45 games in the MLB.  He is a young player who is learning and growing...........he has made some dumb plays but that is expected for any rookie.  If in 2 years Nick is not a better player then he is now then b**** away.  Give the kid a chance........some of you are just dumbass trolls who for some reason think it's funny to pick on his height.

While you clowns sit at home typing on a message board this kid in playing in the MLB.

I personally think he compliments this young team very well.  You need some that is going to make contact and put the ball in play.  Have you seen what has happened on the North side with that offense over the year?  Everybody on that team strikes out way to much.  If you don't have guys that are going to put the ball in play then you are going to be a team that scores 16 on day and scores 1 or 2 a game for the rets of the week.

 

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Can the mods ban this ass hat?

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If i was hitting 300 and Alisa Sandgren, i think a case of the yips would eventually go away...

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4 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said:

Can the mods ban this ass hat?

*speaking very quietly*
 

can you be specific, this is Soxtalk you know 

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Guys....some of you defending Madrigal are also viciously attacking posters who are questioning his value...quite personally. It’s bewildering. 

A lot of you keep going back to what Madrigal is currently hitting above league average and yet citing madrigals own sample size as being too small.

Do you really think entire teams like the Yankees and Cubs and Indians are going to keep hitting .202-.205 with a .650 OPS all season? 80% of the teams are currently hitting below .250 as a team to start the season. 

I’ll reiterate my central point again because my central point is irrelevant of sample size. 

If he is truly is the *zero* home run MLB player he has been thus far, which is really my worst fear... I think he will have to hit doubles and triples at a lead leading clip, and have essentially have the highest average and obp in baseball to be able to generate enough offensive firepower to be better than a typical 15 home run hitting .250/.740 second baseman. He may be able to do that, but that is a huge ask. 

 

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17 minutes ago, Kyyle23 said:

*speaking very quietly*
 

can you be specific, this is Soxtalk you know 

I think you and everyone else knows who I am talking about.  

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