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The TLR Manager Thread

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16 minutes ago, Texsox said:

I'd leave him on. If I invested a share of $20,000,000 and it was now worth $1,600,000,000 I'd leave him in and pray he doesn't die. 

The Yankees are now worth $5.7 billion and the Cubs $4.1 billion, is $1.6 billion that impressive when compared to their peers?

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1 minute ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

He makes them money  (eventually when the team is sold) that's what they give a damn about.

Ok agreed, but hopefully when the team is sold we can have a real rich billionaire come in to buy the team and not have a ton of part owners. I want someone running this team that made his billions running a successful company and owning the Sox is for fun and the competitive nature of it.

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18 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

Hmm, maybe because I don't care who posts what and don't follow you around because you're posts aren't important to me?

I don't care what your username is, you posted something that was incorrect and I corrected it. If you feel you're above that, and think you should post free of any commentary to the contrary of your viewpoint maybe you should consider not posting on public message boards?

Again, this self inflated sense of importance you have about yourself really gets in the way of basic conversation. All I said was that that part of the post was wrong, and then corrected what LaRussa actually said; you've now gone on to write multiple posts getting oddly defensive and making this a personal vendetta in your brain despite nothing personal being exchanged from my end. I've said this before, but get over yourself guy.

Do you think you would call him out as much as you do if 1. he wasn't perceived as a Sox "insider", and 2. his political views aligned with yours?

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1 minute ago, ron883 said:

Do you think you would call him out as much as you do if 1. he wasn't perceived as a Sox "insider", and 2. his political views aligned with yours?

What are his political views? Don't even know.

To be honest, I was driving to get lunch and at a light. Read the post, didn't even see who it was from, replied and came back to see a post throwing a fit that I chose to respond to him. So in this case, yes. Sometimes you know I like to poke the bear, but sadly this wasn't even one of those cases.

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11 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

Hmm, maybe because I don't care who posts what and don't follow you around because you're posts aren't important to me?

I don't care what your username is, you posted something that was incorrect and I corrected it. If you feel you're above that, and think you should post free of any commentary to the contrary of your viewpoint maybe you should consider not posting on public message boards?

Again, this self inflated sense of importance you have about yourself really gets in the way of basic conversation. All I said was that that part of the post was wrong, and then corrected what LaRussa actually said; you've now gone on to write multiple posts getting oddly defensive and making this a personal vendetta in your brain despite nothing personal being exchanged from my end. I've said this before, but get over yourself guy.

So you can't be mature about the whole thing and ignore me is what you're saying? I don't know why that's so much to ask. The rest of your post is just deflecting and efforts to steer it personal as you do.

I just know that your grating and unrelenting personality offers nothing of value for me and what I go to SoxTalk for. Look at your post history it's all anger-filled and going at it with people. I am trying to read/talk about the Sox. You're trying to teach people and "get" them. And while you do go at everyone, you absolutely have a personal obsession with me given your past pot shots and irrelevant knocks. Inflated sense of importance? I asked you to stop responding to my posts as I have in the past. What does that have to with importance?

But if you insist on annoying me, that's fine I guess. Says more about you that you outright refuse to honor some random on the internet asking you to leave them alone. You're like the guy at the bar that just keeps hitting on the girl in the friend group that is clearly not interested. They never learn.

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19 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

He makes them money  (eventually when the team is sold) that's what they give a damn about.

Agreed profits are the goal, but it isn’t as though profits and winning are mutually exclusive. If the decision to hire La Russa  for personal reasons damages the direction of the franchise, that’s obviously not good for anybody. 

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, caulfield12 said:

Based on the assumption they still wouldn’t throw through with Hendriks at third...or purely trusting Leury’s baserunning instincts, such as they are?

I doubt LaRussa assumed that. LaRussa also said in the presser he had no intention of making Hendriks part of a double steal or risking Hendriks in any way that involved a play at the plate or 3rd. which answers the question on why Hamilton wouldn't have attempted a bunt (suicide or safety squeeze) if the steal was not used in the 1st place. The Reds knew this which is why they did throw through with the very strong armed Barnhart, another thing LaRussa should have taken into consideration for the steal ( Barnharts arm) Probably also explains why he just didn't have Leury attempt a sac bunt to get runners on 2nd and 3rd with no outs. So his decisions and lack of knowledge of the rules directly contributed to the rest of his (bad) strategy for the inning.

Edited by CaliSoxFanViaSWside

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9 minutes ago, Blackout Friday said:

Agreed profits are the goal, but it isn’t as though profits and winning are mutually exclusive. If the decision to hire La Russa  for personal reasons damages the direction of the franchise, that’s obviously not good for anybody. 

Reinsdorf obviously doesn't think the way he's been running the franchise hasn't hurt the bottom line and he's right. It's been a very good investment. Spending above and beyond the budget may not necessarily improve the bottom line especially if he has no faith attendance or TV revenues and sponsorships will dramatically improve with continuous winning vs costs associated with continuous winning.

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2 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

Reinsdorf obviously doesn't think the way he's been running the franchise hasn't hurt the bottom line and he's right. It's been a very good investment. Spending above and beyond the budget may not necessarily improve the bottom line especially if he has no faith attendance or TV revenues and sponsorships will dramatically improve with continuous winning vs costs associated with continuous winning.

I’m guessing the double negative at the beginning was an accident? Although if it was on purpose I’d agree with him. 
 

It’s possible he doesn’t think spending money is a smart investment simply because they’ve...made poor investments?

I guess none of it really matters, as he has the ultimate say. I just personally disagree that his approach is the best at cultivating a strong fanbase/revenues. 

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The fan base has been cultivated by Jerry since Bill Veeck almost destroyed it.  WSox are a respectable organization playing in a nice clean facility, and they are still competing in their Division, despite key injuries.   IMO, they probably have little chance now to win the Division without Eloy and Robert, but they fight on.

And no, LaRussa was not responsible for a loss where the Sox got 2 hits in 10 innings.  Maybe Vaughn should have done better than 0 for 3 and a key GIDP.

Madrigal had the longest hit  ball for us at 281 feet.   Whatever, forget that loss and move on.

 

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Posted (edited)
30 minutes ago, Blackout Friday said:

I’m guessing the double negative at the beginning was an accident? Although if it was on purpose I’d agree with him. 
 

It’s possible he doesn’t think spending money is a smart investment simply because they’ve...made poor investments?

I guess none of it really matters, as he has the ultimate say. I just personally disagree that his approach is the best at cultivating a strong fanbase/revenues. 

LOL ,Yea I originally had it as he doesn't think it "has" hurt the bottom line and changed it and I even thought "well damn i just double negatived that and now it doesn't make any sense." But I hit submit replay anyway.

Right ,his choice, I mean maybe they spend more and make better investments if he loosens the purse strings and allows the GM to stop making the mid range investments that turn out so poorly. But he also wants to avoid the really big investments that turn out poorly because he won't allow those big investments to take up such a high percentage of the payroll which would also have be raised. His way has worked so far for him ,his family and the investors. As a business that's really all he is concerned with.

Yes, he is a big baseball fan but not to the point of jeopardizing the bottom line or care about winning World Series in any way financially but his own way. Would the Sox be worth more or have a bigger fan base if it was different? We will never know.

Like now, he's probably hoping the Sox could win a World Series or 2 and bump the franchise worth over the $2B range but he won't go out of his way financially to accomplish that.

 

Edited by CaliSoxFanViaSWside

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1 hour ago, ejm3 said:

I can't speak for anyone else, but I don't assume Jerry is lucid at age 85 for one second. I think he is completely senile and losing it. This is a horrific dangerous combination when on top if it, Jerry is an inept and pompous owner. No owner in baseball today would have made this type of hire, other than a egotistical and clueless Reinsdorf. This was a absurd decision for Jerry for his own selfish reasons to placate his injured ego, from his move he screwed up 35 years ago when he let Hawk Harrelson fire TLR.

In reality, Reinsdorf can be very lucid. The LaRussa hiring is really no different than the Hawk hiring, the Ozzie hiring, the Ventura hiring. There appears to be little thought in the process even when these decisions are so important. He likes someone, he feels comfortable with someone, he hires that someone. The Ozzie thing worked out for a while until it blew up. The LaRussa, Hawk, and Ventura things not so well.

I do worry as Reinsdorf ages that there is no one to counter-balance him. Somebody should have stopped the LaRussa thing, but there was no one around to do it.

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1 hour ago, Texsox said:

I'd leave him on. If I invested a share of $20,000,000 and it was now worth $1,600,000,000 I'd leave him in and pray he doesn't die. 

But you can sat the same for guys like Loria, Samson, Donald Sterling, James Dolan, Daniel Snyder, Jerry Jones...it’s more about economics/ supply & demand than any particular tactical or strategic brilliance.  Right place, right time.

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47 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

Reinsdorf obviously doesn't think the way he's been running the franchise hasn't hurt the bottom line and he's right. It's been a very good investment. Spending above and beyond the budget may not necessarily improve the bottom line especially if he has no faith attendance or TV revenues and sponsorships will dramatically improve with continuous winning vs costs associated with continuous winning.

They failed to prove that because 2006 was a huge financial success, but didn’t make the playoffs and then 2007/2009/2011-Adam Dunn-Buehrle leaving/Ozzie burning bridges wiped out any lingering positive aftereffects from the WS.

Just no consistency from year to year due to the competing on the fly execution or lack thereof. 

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8 minutes ago, tray said:

The fan base has been cultivated by Jerry since Bill Veeck almost destroyed it.  WSox are a respectable organization playing in a nice clean facility, and they are still competing in their Division, despite key injuries.   IMO, they probably have little chance now to win the Division without Eloy and Robert, but they fight on.

And no, LaRussa was not responsible for a loss where the Sox got 2 hits in 10 innings.  Maybe Vaughn should have done better than 0 for 3 and a key GIDP.

Madrigal had the longest hit  ball for us at 281 feet.   Whatever, forget that loss and move on.

 

LOL!  Reinsdorf has “cultivated” the fan base while Bill Veeck “almost destroyed it”?  Are you nuts?  Bill Veeck saved the franchise for the city of Chicago by buying the team and keeping it in the city when it looked like a move to Seattle was inevitable.  Conversely, Reinsdorf blackmailed the state into building and paying for the “nice clean facility” by threatening to move the city to Florida if it did not.  

Add to that the myriad of other franchise-crushing decisions perpetrated by Reinsdorf over his 40+ years, nothing of which Veeck came even remotely close to making, and you can’t compare the two.   
 

From SportsVision to letting Harry Caray go to the Cubs to hiring Hawk as GM to the blackmail incident to building a horribly-designed ballpark to siding with hard line owners over the Sox in 1994 to the White Flag trade to Terry Bevington to the shabby treatment of Fisk at the end of his career to the hiring of Ventura to just six postseason appearances in 40 years to now the debacle of 2021 Tony LaRussa, you can surely say Reinsdorf has cultivated a fan base: one that can’t wait to see him go.

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Posted (edited)
9 minutes ago, Thad Bosley said:

LOL!  Reinsdorf has “cultivated” the fan base while Bill Veeck “almost destroyed it”?  Are you nuts?  Bill Veeck saved the franchise for the city of Chicago by buying the team and keeping it in the city when it looked like a move to Seattle was inevitable.  Conversely, Reinsdorf blackmailed the state into building and paying for the “nice clean facility” by threatening to move the city to Florida if it did not.  

Add to that the myriad of other franchise-crushing decisions perpetrated by Reinsdorf over his 40+ years, nothing of which Veeck came even remotely close to making, and you can’t compare the two.   
 

From SportsVision to letting Harry Caray go to the Cubs to hiring Hawk as GM to the blackmail incident to building a horribly-designed ballpark to siding with hard line owners over the Sox in 1994 to the White Flag trade to Terry Bevington to the shabby treatment of Fisk at the end of his career to the hiring of Ventura to just six postseason appearances in 40 years to now the debacle of 2021 Tony LaRussa, you can surely say Reinsdorf has cultivated a fan base: one that can’t wait to see him go.

Here's the only figures you need:

In 1980, Cubs attendance exceeded the Sox by 0.5%

In 2019, Cubs attendance exceeded the Sox by 187.6%

That is the fruit of Reinsdorf's ownership.

Edited by WhiteSoxFan1993
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13 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

They failed to prove that because 2006 was a huge financial success, but didn’t make the playoffs and then 2007/2009/2011-Adam Dunn-Buehrle leaving/Ozzie burning bridges wiped out any lingering positive aftereffects from the WS.

Just no consistency from year to year due to the competing on the fly execution or lack thereof. 

But it was a huge financial success because it was accomplished Jerry's way. That way he's not signing huge contracts and hoping for a little luck like in 2005 with a bunch of guys having career or near career years. The way he has done it has consistently shown you can't make the playoffs but can still keep the investors happy.

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44 minutes ago, tray said:

The fan base has been cultivated by Jerry since Bill Veeck almost destroyed it.  WSox are a respectable organization playing in a nice clean facility, and they are still competing in their Division, despite key injuries.   IMO, they probably have little chance now to win the Division without Eloy and Robert, but they fight on.

And no, LaRussa was not responsible for a loss where the Sox got 2 hits in 10 innings.  Maybe Vaughn should have done better than 0 for 3 and a key GIDP.

Madrigal had the longest hit  ball for us at 281 feet.   Whatever, forget that loss and move on.

 

 

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14 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

But it was a huge financial success because it was accomplished Jerry's way. That way he's not signing huge contracts and hoping for a little luck like in 2005 with a bunch of guys having career or near career years. The way he has done it has consistently shown you can't make the playoffs but can still keep the investors happy.

But they really did up the payroll from 05 to 06.

Seems like it almost doubled.  Added Javy and Thome, although around $10 million per year was coming from Philly.  Starting rotation became the most expensive in baseball.

Of course, this all happened after cutting Magglio, C-Lee and Valentin from payroll.

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2 hours ago, southsider2k5 said:

The Yankees are now worth $5.7 billion and the Cubs $4.1 billion, is $1.6 billion that impressive when compared to their peers?

As I've said it's the worse franchise in baseball. 

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10 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

But they really did up the payroll from 05 to 06.

Seems like it almost doubled.  Added Javy and Thome, although around $10 million per year was coming from Philly.  Starting rotation became the most expensive in baseball.

Of course, this all happened after cutting Magglio, C-Lee and Valentin from payroll.

He upped the payroll because they won the World Series so they had extra money added to the budget and they didn't make the playoffs .So no playoff money and no consistent raises to the payroll afterwards, Right back to JR being JR.

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2 hours ago, Texsox said:

Agreed. Yet fans somehow believe guys he's hired and kept on like Hahn would be grabbed up in a hurry by other teams. Only an inept chairman ( he owns less that 20% of the team ) would keep these guys after so many losing seasons. 

I don't know why we, myself included,  keep calling him the owner. He's the chairman and owns less than 1/5th of the team. 

I don't know why everyone else does, but as an owner of the Green Bay Packers i have set an unfortunate precedent for myself....

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, southsider2k5 said:

The Yankees are now worth $5.7 billion and the Cubs $4.1 billion, is $1.6 billion that impressive when compared to their peers?

He should have pulled a Musk and bet Sox capital reserves on Bitcoin, Ethereum or the Doge...all $8 million remaining.  Then we could at least afford a legit outfielder for the rest of the season, and at least one veteran if not two for the pen.

Edited by caulfield12

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1 hour ago, Thad Bosley said:

LOL!  Reinsdorf has “cultivated” the fan base while Bill Veeck “almost destroyed it”?  Are you nuts?  Bill Veeck saved the franchise for the city of Chicago by buying the team and keeping it in the city when it looked like a move to Seattle was inevitable.  Conversely, Reinsdorf blackmailed the state into building and paying for the “nice clean facility” by threatening to move the city to Florida if it did not.  

Add to that the myriad of other franchise-crushing decisions perpetrated by Reinsdorf over his 40+ years, nothing of which Veeck came even remotely close to making, and you can’t compare the two.   
 

From SportsVision to letting Harry Caray go to the Cubs to hiring Hawk as GM to the blackmail incident to building a horribly-designed ballpark to siding with hard line owners over the Sox in 1994 to the White Flag trade to Terry Bevington to the shabby treatment of Fisk at the end of his career to the hiring of Ventura to just six postseason appearances in 40 years to now the debacle of 2021 Tony LaRussa, you can surely say Reinsdorf has cultivated a fan base: one that can’t wait to see him go.

This post is so correct I just wanted to post it again!

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