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Addressing the OF shortage (Robert Injury Spinoff)

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I was a big fan of picking up Tauchman after the Eloy injury. Sadly, he's already been traded for nothing. Sigh.

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Posted (edited)

Also depends on what the Royals and Twins try to do...

Both teams have obvious starting pitching needs.   The Twins also are dealing with back end bullpen problems as well.

And both teams have pretty attractive (and deeper) minor league talent pools.

 

The Twins have no choice but to get back in this with so many veterans like Cruz and Donaldson...and limited shelf life to trade Buxton/Berrios (for massive hauls) or simply get comp picks back.

The Royals can sit back and bide their time, not really expected to compete this year.  Their big additions will be from the minors.

The White Sox have to approach this as a “playoffs are a necessity” season, an easy conclusion to reach.

Edited by caulfield12

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3 hours ago, manbearpuig said:

That doesn't mean I am trading Eloy for that.

So then you get more for him or you just trade someone else on maybe Sam Hillard. He is a LHH OFer with big power but who K's a lot but still can play all OF positions. He's 27 and when Eloy comes back you have 2 more big power bats.  Eloy goes back to LF or DH and Hilliard in RF if Eaton goes down with an injury. Hilliard could start or be a nice depth piece . He could be be like Gallo or even better than Gallo who a lot of people seemed to like around here.

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4 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

So then you get more for him or you just trade someone else on maybe Sam Hillard. He is a LHH OFer with big power but who K's a lot but still can play all OF positions. He's 27 and when Eloy comes back you have 2 more big power bats.  Eloy goes back to LF or DH and Hilliard in RF if Eaton goes down with an injury. Hilliard could start or be a nice depth piece . He could be be like Gallo or even better than Gallo who a lot of people seemed to like around here.

My theory: he spent his offseason focusing on defense. Playing in the outfield at Coors is hard, and for all of Hilliard’s impressive stats in 2019, his defense was terrible. He committed two errors in 18 starts and Fangraphs’ Defensive Runs Above Average (DEF) metric had him at -2.2. Last season he committed zero errors on his way to a -0.1 DEF rating. Being a league average defender while patrolling centerfield in Denver is a major accomplishment. For all his troubles last year, Hilliard’s homers and defense lifted him to a 0.2 fWAR, good for 7th on the team.

Hilliard’s drop-off was foreshadowed by a poor offensive showing in last year’s shortened spring training. MLB.com shows that he hit .184 with 14 strikeouts and two walks in 17 games. This year he is hitting .267 through 13 spring games with five walks and nine strikeouts. Interestingly, while his strikeout rate remains high, he is yet to demonstrate his power. Instead, Hilliard appears to be taking a contact-driven approach, with only a single extra-base hit (an RBI double) to his name. This could pay dividends. Last year, Hilliard’s BABIP was .281, a number that should rise drastically if his goal is to get on bases rather than round them all at once.

https://www.purplerow.com/2021/3/17/22335131/colorado-rockies-news-sam-hilliard-disastrous-2020-future-desmond-dahl

 

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Posted (edited)
7 hours ago, reiks12 said:

I find it odd that our guys are getting hurt so badly. Tim with his leg, Moncada is always laboring, Eaton is hobbling, Engel with his. Do these guys warmup and stretch? I can see Eloys injury being a fluke with the fence but damn it seems like this shit just doesnt happen outside of our team. Make them do some yoga!

I see it as a growing problem. White Sox have some amazing athletes who tend to suffer injuries especially in cold weather. I know all teams suffer injuries but this may be something that stunts the Sox completing the rebuild with 2-3 world championships or a run similar to the Blackhawks run not too many years ago. Sox are not deep enough to survive Robert's absence with an automatic out.

Edited by greg775

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1 minute ago, greg775 said:

I see it as a growing problem. White Sox have some amazing athletes who tend to suffer injuries especially in cold weather. I know all teams suffer injuries but this may be something that stunts the Sox completing the rebuild with 2-3 world championships or a run similar to the Blackhawks run not too many years ago. Sox are not deep enough to survive Robert's absence with an automatic out.

Depends on your definition of Leury, Hamilton and/or Engel on the offensive front.  Most of the hopes surround Engel, but hitting the ground running offensively after such a long layoff and being forced to contribute as something more than a complementary player will be a huge test.

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3 hours ago, Kyyle23 said:

The window literally just opened.  Keuchel, Lynn, and Rodon are not keys to everything going forward, I could care less what happens to them going forward.  Eloy is a key going forward.

It opened last year. And it's wide open this year. Not sure what point you're making about them not being the keys to going forward. I know they aren't . 2 of them wont be here or likely won't be here. But they are a key to THIS year and you're fine with just waiting it out and hoping JR decides to be good to us at the trade deadline or missing the playoffs because the future is so bright  ? How long will that strategy hold water for ? Every year you wait the core's salaries rise . After this year the Sox have just 2 more years of Giolito. Keuchel is 34 next year. Kopech will be in his 1st year as a starting pitcher. Still don't know what we have with Cease. Keep depending on JR to make it all right is also a terrible strategy.

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9 minutes ago, greg775 said:

I see it as a growing problem. White Sox have some amazing athletes who tend to suffer injuries especially in cold weather. I know all teams suffer injuries but this may be something that stunts the Sox completing the rebuild with 2-3 world championships or a run similar to the Blackhawks run not too many years ago. Sox are not deep enough to survive Robert's absence with an automatic out.

It was 80 degrees this weekend.  

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1 hour ago, ChiSox59 said:

Bryant is a FA getting paid market value or slightly under. Giving up Crochet for a few months of any player is idiotic, not to mention when the Sox are well under full strength and likely will be for the rest of the season. I want the Sox to be in a position to win multiple championships - not push their chips in year 1 as a knee jerk reaction to Eloy/Robert getting hurt. 

Id love to trade for Bryant, but zero percent chance I am giving up Crochet for him, or really any of our top guys. Which means we won’t get him, which is also fine. Go trade for David Peralta or someone similar and give up very little - this team is still plenty good to make the playoffs. 

Sacrificing the backend of our window to go all in on 2021 would be beyond shortsighted, and Hahn isn’t going to do that. Sorry. 

How is trading Crochet for Kris Bryant pushing all the Sox chips in??? Crochet is a ticking time bomb injury wise. The kid is also years away from joining the starting rotation.I would trade him for Bryant right now without hesitation. 

As a fan I'm tired of hearing all this talk about maximizing the backend of a potential window. You are talking about something that may never happen. The American League is weak right now. Let's go get Bryant and win the AL pennant!

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14 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

My theory: he spent his offseason focusing on defense. Playing in the outfield at Coors is hard, and for all of Hilliard’s impressive stats in 2019, his defense was terrible. He committed two errors in 18 starts and Fangraphs’ Defensive Runs Above Average (DEF) metric had him at -2.2. Last season he committed zero errors on his way to a -0.1 DEF rating. Being a league average defender while patrolling centerfield in Denver is a major accomplishment. For all his troubles last year, Hilliard’s homers and defense lifted him to a 0.2 fWAR, good for 7th on the team.

Hilliard’s drop-off was foreshadowed by a poor offensive showing in last year’s shortened spring training. MLB.com shows that he hit .184 with 14 strikeouts and two walks in 17 games. This year he is hitting .267 through 13 spring games with five walks and nine strikeouts. Interestingly, while his strikeout rate remains high, he is yet to demonstrate his power. Instead, Hilliard appears to be taking a contact-driven approach, with only a single extra-base hit (an RBI double) to his name. This could pay dividends. Last year, Hilliard’s BABIP was .281, a number that should rise drastically if his goal is to get on bases rather than round them all at once.

https://www.purplerow.com/2021/3/17/22335131/colorado-rockies-news-sam-hilliard-disastrous-2020-future-desmond-dahl

 

 The OF here is nothing like the Coor's OF. Much easier to play OF here. He's a good gamble given the lack of OF depth and the huge power and the Sox lack of power currently especially from the left side. If you want to make a minor transaction with potential he's the type the Sox should be looking at. No mortgaging the future with him.

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11 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

It opened last year. And it's wide open this year. Not sure what point you're making about them not being the keys to going forward. I know they aren't . 2 of them wont be here or likely won't be here. But they are a key to THIS year and you're fine with just waiting it out and hoping JR decides to be good to us at the trade deadline or missing the playoffs because the future is so bright  ? How long will that strategy hold water for ? Every year you wait the core's salaries rise . After this year the Sox have just 2 more years of Giolito. Keuchel is 34 next year. Kopech will be in his 1st year as a starting pitcher. Still don't know what we have with Cease. Keep depending on JR to make it all right is also a terrible strategy.

The point is I'm not concerned about Keuchel Lynn and Rodon beyond this year, I'm concerned about the players that have been penciled in for the bulk of the window.  I'm not trading Eloy away for anyone really,  because I feel he is an incredibly valuable bat.

right now the moves I would make to improve this team are not going to take from what should be the starting lineup this season.  I'm dealing from minors if I am making any moves

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10 minutes ago, Kyyle23 said:

The point is I'm not concerned about Keuchel Lynn and Rodon beyond this year, I'm concerned about the players that have been penciled in for the bulk of the window.  I'm not trading Eloy away for anyone really,  because I feel he is an incredibly valuable bat.

right now the moves I would make to improve this team are not going to take from what should be the starting lineup this season.  I'm dealing from minors if I am making any moves

Which is why as an alternative I suggested Sam Hilliard but I do think something needs to be done.

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9 hours ago, Dominikk85 said:

Is that so? Tauchman was super cheap. I feel position players over age 27 with two or less years of control tend to be super cheap when it comes to prospects unless they are absolute elite and even elite rental position players don't tend to yield a big haul (see what the dodgers paid for Machado). 

I don't know a name but isn't there some decent 29-31 year old who is going to be a free agent after this season who is decent but won't cost a ton (let's Say a 45fv and a 35+ lotto ticket) ? 

 

There are so many tanking teams looking to unload for prospects. 

Teams know the situation the Sox are in. Supply and demand. A quality guy is worth more to the Sox than a team without a playoff chance. 

How much would you pay for a life preserver while sitting at your computer? How much would you pay in the middle of the Atlantic with hours until rescue? 

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We can get a solid player for cheap prospect capital if we are willing to spend money. At this point we need to spend some money to protect our rebuild investment. 

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5 minutes ago, Texsox said:

Teams know the situation the Sox are in. Supply and demand. A quality guy is worth more to the Sox than a team without a playoff chance. 

How much would you pay for a life preserver while sitting at your computer? How much would you pay in the middle of the Atlantic with hours until rescue? 

I disagree for a bad contract solid player. Teams would want to unload the salary and take back less in prospect capital. 

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Just now, SonofaRoache said:

I disagree for a bad contract solid player. Teams would want to unload the salary and take back less in prospect capital. 

What we disagree on is if taking on a bad contract is overpaying. I think it is. 

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1 minute ago, Texsox said:

What we disagree on is if taking on a bad contract is overpaying. I think it is. 

In theory. But if you want to win a world series this year then you can either spend more money or give up better and more prospects. This team cannot susrain itself over this next stretch if Robert misses a month or more. It would be different if our hitters were hitting and the bullpen was pitching well. 

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2 minutes ago, SonofaRoache said:

In theory. But if you want to win a world series this year then you can either spend more money or give up better and more prospects. This team cannot susrain itself over this next stretch if Robert misses a month or more. It would be different if our hitters were hitting and the bullpen was pitching well. 

Agreed. 

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2 hours ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

SO does that mean we are in the middle of our window now and how long is the back end going to last if we keep kicking the can down the road ? 2023 ?

We are in year 1 of the window.  The window is an extended one IMO when looking at the roster and control - through at least 2026.  I get the urge to want to be good right away, but trading Crochet for a 4 month stop gap would be beyond stupid.  

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, South Side Hit Men said:

He just spent $150M on two rehashed veterans, $23M on complete busts last season (Parrot, Gio and Mazara), burning money on two managers this year with his Renteria extension, and pissing away $60M more during the three tanking years (Kelvin Herrera, Yonder Alonso, Wellington Castillo and Todd Frazier). 

Hahn pissed away a quarter of a billion dollars in the past four off seasons, after he was declared “all growns up”.

 

So 2020 MVP Jose Abreu is now pissed away $? Lol. 

edit: Guessing you're referring to Keuchel not Abreu.  I know who the other guy you're referring to is.  

Edited by ChiSox59

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1 hour ago, tray said:

Even before we lost Roberts to the IL, the Sox were not a lock to win the Division or even to make the play-offs. Did you watch all the games against the Angels and Indians ?  Our bullpen has let numerous leads slip away,. Almost every one of them has been touched up except Kopech, who is slated to become a starter.

Vaughn is a fan favorite and is constantly talked up  by Stone and Benny.  I'm not sold on him becoming an All-Star. He looks adequate in LF because he catches fly balls hit withing 15 feet of where he stands, and then just shags everything else after it hits the ground.  I want to see Vaughn in every game to see how he fares in LF and at the plate.

I also want to see if Collins can hit like he did in Spring Training.  He looks much better defensively though.

Mercedes looks like a good answer at DH moving forward. Again, he needs to continue to prove himself.

Trading any part of the Cuban core - Abreu, Eloy, Moncada, Robert should not be an option, at least not for the foreseeable future.  They are the core that could compete for a championship if all else goes well.  With two of them out, I think the Division is a long shot. Maybe use this season as a proving ground for a few of the young players and pitchers,  strap it down, enjoy the show and wait until next year for the team to win the Division .  That may become obvious well before the All Star break.

Lost me at Roberts.  

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1 minute ago, ChiSox59 said:

So 2020 MVP Jose Abreu is now pissed away $? Lol. 

Not mentioned or inferred in my post.

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49 minutes ago, JoeyCoralFanClub said:

How is trading Crochet for Kris Bryant pushing all the Sox chips in??? Crochet is a ticking time bomb injury wise. The kid is also years away from joining the starting rotation.I would trade him for Bryant right now without hesitation. 

As a fan I'm tired of hearing all this talk about maximizing the backend of a potential window. You are talking about something that may never happen. The American League is weak right now. Let's go get Bryant and win the AL pennant!

Yes - World Series or bust in 2021!  Eloy hurt!? Who cares!?  Robert hurt!? No biggie!  Let's trade off a legitiamtely elite SP prospect for a guy who is paid market value for 4 months and will leave for nothing!  Brilliant!

Glad you aren't making decisions or the Sox would be cellar dwellers again by 2023.  

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2 minutes ago, South Side Hit Men said:

Not mentioned or inferred in my post.

I edited my post.  When you said they flushed $150M down the toilet, I figured you were referring to Grandal + Abreu.  You were referring to Grandal + Keuchel.  None of the names were mentioned, hence the confusion.  

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5 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said:

Lost me at Roberts.  

I can't take any post seriously that spells his name that way. I just can't.

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