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GGajewski18

Bullpen Depth/MI Depth

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QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Jan 28, 2015 -> 10:34 AM)
I'd much rather they get some SP depth.

I'm thinking the same thing. We don't seem to have anyone if someone goes down for any length of time. I'm not counting on Rodon till he earns his place and you can't count on him for the whole year anyways. A guy like Carroll would kill our post season chances if we had to use him like we did last yr.

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QUOTE (AlSoxfan @ Jan 28, 2015 -> 11:42 AM)
I'm thinking the same thing. We don't seem to have anyone if someone goes down for any length of time. I'm not counting on Rodon till he earns his place and you can't count on him for the whole year anyways. A guy like Carroll would kill our post season chances if we had to use him like we did last yr.

 

Exactly. Even if you DO count Rodon, that's only six 'serviceable' starters, and that's counting Noesi and Danks as 'serviceable.' I think teams use an average of ten or something each year.

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Did we forget about Brad Penny??

 

7 serviceable starters!

 

But I agree, if we are looking to keep the train chugging along despite possible injury someone like Beachy would be a nice little pickup. Not ready until May ... and lets be honest probably ASB. But that is the type of guy I'd like to take a flyer on -- sign him to a cheap deal. Maybe next year he can come in and slot into the rotation.

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QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Jan 28, 2015 -> 11:51 AM)
Exactly. Even if you DO count Rodon, that's only six 'serviceable' starters, and that's counting Noesi and Danks as 'serviceable.' I think teams use an average of ten or something each year.

A decent starter would push Noesi to the bullpen and we would then have him for long relief or emergency starter if needed, essentially killing 2 birds

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QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jan 28, 2015 -> 04:58 PM)
We do have depth past that. We have Jesse Crain as a possibility, as well as the return of Nate Jones around the ASB. We also have some quality young arms that are probably going to Charlotte, such as Dan Webb and Surkamp. That doesn't include guys like Ynoa and Sanburn making a leap, or guys like Rodon and Montas would could start off in the pen some time this year if needed.

 

there are prob a couple more that you didn't about mentioning, that goes to show how the relief pen is now getting stacked. i feel really confident in the positional players and the relief pen. i wonder who is out there really don't see that. remember, everyone has an opinion.

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QUOTE (AlSoxfan @ Jan 28, 2015 -> 05:42 PM)
I'm thinking the same thing. We don't seem to have anyone if someone goes down for any length of time. I'm not counting on Rodon till he earns his place and you can't count on him for the whole year anyways. A guy like Carroll would kill our post season chances if we had to use him like we did last yr.

 

you and i may be a minority in thinking like that, but many including JR, who is the owner, think otherwise. they have him pencil in as a starter.

 

i wonder if this was a wink wink deal with his agent.

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QUOTE (AlSoxfan @ Jan 28, 2015 -> 06:07 PM)
A decent starter would push Noesi to the bullpen and we would then have him for long relief or emergency starter if needed, essentially killing 2 birds

 

also don't forget, many on the sox pitchers haven't gone long innings in the course of a season. now look at adding more innings, important innings for the playoff run.

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QUOTE (AlSoxfan @ Jan 28, 2015 -> 12:07 PM)
A decent starter would push Noesi to the bullpen and we would then have him for long relief or emergency starter if needed, essentially killing 2 birds

 

Which is an excellent point. Especially considering we're talking about 'depth' here -- our bullpen doesn't need back-end studs here, and stashing decent starters is always tricky because they want to find regular gigs. Using Hector Noesi as a mid-innings reliever solves the bullpen depth issue and I'd LOVE him as an injury contingency starter much more than as our defacto 4 or 5 man.

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QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Jan 28, 2015 -> 02:06 PM)
Which is an excellent point. Especially considering we're talking about 'depth' here -- our bullpen doesn't need back-end studs here, and stashing decent starters is always tricky because they want to find regular gigs. Using Hector Noesi as a mid-innings reliever solves the bullpen depth issue and I'd LOVE him as an injury contingency starter much more than as our defacto 4 or 5 man.

The Sox still think Johnson could bounce back. They also like Beck and seem to think Montas could be a starter at the major league level in 2015.

 

If Montas was ready, and Johnson can get back to where he was, the depth is there, but they are a couple of huge ifs.

 

 

Not counting Abreu as a prospect last year, Johnson and Davidson were the most heralded and supposedly most ready, and they were awful. Hopefully, 2015 is a different story, not just with them.

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QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jan 28, 2015 -> 08:39 PM)
The Sox still think Johnson could bounce back. They also like Beck and seem to think Montas could be a starter at the major league level in 2015.

 

If Montas was ready, and Johnson can get back to where he was, the depth is there, but they are a couple of huge ifs.

 

 

Not counting Abreu as a prospect last year, Johnson and Davidson were the most heralded and supposedly most ready, and they were awful. Hopefully, 2015 is a different story, not just with them.

 

i will discuss the bolded. my beef about a startng sp of front end quality is well worn out.

 

the sox needs a pitcher, a pitcher who is better than Danks. someone who can be counted on in important games to be relied on if Sale gets hurt, or to spot start for Jeff S and Q. Rodon had not pitched 100 innings at a Major league level, how many innings are going to be trusted to him??

 

i will preach 1 thing i have always preach. do not depend on "what if" and "prospects" to produce as potential, not when the system is this thin and the ability to go far in the playoff.

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QUOTE (LDF @ Jan 28, 2015 -> 02:50 PM)
i will discuss the bolded. my beef about a startng sp of front end quality is well worn out.

 

the sox needs a pitcher, a pitcher who is better than Danks. someone who can be counted on in important games to be relied on if Sale gets hurt, or to spot start for Jeff S and Q. Rodon had not pitched 100 innings at a Major league level, how many innings are going to be trusted to him??

 

i will preach 1 thing i have always preach. do not depend on "what if" and "prospects" to produce as potential, not when the system is this thin and the ability to go far in the playoff.

I agree to some extent. Some of the crap the White Sox have been counting on the past few years was a joke. Most rookies struggle a bit. Counting on Micah Johnson or Sanchez to be really good is a stretch. You do need some extra starters. But Rodon is one of the better prospects in the game. Johnson was supposed to be a good prospect. Beck, I would be dissappointed if they counted on him to be successful, and Montas, while talented, doesn't have a whole lot of work to hang his hat.

 

Another starter would be great, but right now, unless you are going to spend a ton, you aren't going to get anything better than John Danks.

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QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jan 28, 2015 -> 09:17 PM)
I agree to some extent. Some of the crap the White Sox have been counting on the past few years was a joke. Most rookies struggle a bit. Counting on Micah Johnson or Sanchez to be really good is a stretch. You do need some extra starters. But Rodon is one of the better prospects in the game. Johnson was supposed to be a good prospect. Beck, I would be dissappointed if they counted on him to be successful, and Montas, while talented, doesn't have a whole lot of work to hang his hat.

 

Another starter would be great, but right now, unless you are going to spend a ton, you aren't going to get anything better than John Danks.

that is how i see it..... oh well.

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QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jan 28, 2015 -> 04:17 PM)
Another starter would be great, but right now, unless you are going to spend a ton, you aren't going to get anything better than John Danks.

 

I think that a reasonable alternative, though, would be signing a couple more guys AS GOOD AS John Danks. At least then we have a few extra shots.

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QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Jan 28, 2015 -> 10:32 PM)
I think that a reasonable alternative, though, would be signing a couple more guys AS GOOD AS John Danks. At least then we have a few extra shots.

 

yeah, i agree but that window of opportunity has past.

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Long time follower.....1st time poster.

 

I think the best improvement for this team was improving the bullpen with back end talent and getting added depth. I saw a comment earlier that "Cleto sucks". Early last season I would agree but when he was brought back late last season when rosters expanded he pitched much better with the addition of the change up. He had a 13-15mph difference between his fastball and change. Pretty devastating.....hopefully he can continue that.

 

I looked last year at how the White Sox were in late inning situations and this is what I found. We lost 28 games last year where we lead or were tied going into the 7th inning. Here is the breakdown of those games by division:

AL East - 8 games

AL Central - 15 games

AL West - 3 games

NL East - 0 games

NL Central - 0 games

NL West 2 games

 

That is a lot of games and if you take half of those games and produce wins that gives the Sox a 87-75 record. There were numerous games where we gave up more than 3 runs in one inning in those losses. If we clean that up in late game situations we can improve significantly.

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QUOTE (HBaines03 @ Jan 28, 2015 -> 10:40 PM)
Long time follower.....1st time poster.

 

I think the best improvement for this team was improving the bullpen with back end talent and getting added depth. I saw a comment earlier that "Cleto sucks". Early last season I would agree but when he was brought back late last season when rosters expanded he pitched much better with the addition of the change up. He had a 13-15mph difference between his fastball and change. Pretty devastating.....hopefully he can continue that.

 

I looked last year at how the White Sox were in late inning situations and this is what I found. We lost 28 games last year where we lead or were tied going into the 7th inning. Here is the breakdown of those games by division:

AL East - 8 games

AL Central - 15 games

AL West - 3 games

NL East - 0 games

NL Central - 0 games

NL West 2 games

 

That is a lot of games and if you take half of those games and produce wins that gives the Sox a 87-75 record. There were numerous games where we gave up more than 3 runs in one inning in those losses. If we clean that up in late game situations we can improve significantly.

 

welcome to the best sports forum... at least in chi. ;)

 

but i am in agreement with the total without restriction in the rebuilding of the pen. this yr as it stands has a great group of RP's and with backups developing.

 

nice post for your first.

Edited by LDF

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QUOTE (HBaines03 @ Jan 28, 2015 -> 04:40 PM)
Long time follower.....1st time poster.

 

I think the best improvement for this team was improving the bullpen with back end talent and getting added depth. I saw a comment earlier that "Cleto sucks". Early last season I would agree but when he was brought back late last season when rosters expanded he pitched much better with the addition of the change up. He had a 13-15mph difference between his fastball and change. Pretty devastating.....hopefully he can continue that.

 

I looked last year at how the White Sox were in late inning situations and this is what I found. We lost 28 games last year where we lead or were tied going into the 7th inning. Here is the breakdown of those games by division:

AL East - 8 games

AL Central - 15 games

AL West - 3 games

NL East - 0 games

NL Central - 0 games

NL West 2 games

 

That is a lot of games and if you take half of those games and produce wins that gives the Sox a 87-75 record. There were numerous games where we gave up more than 3 runs in one inning in those losses. If we clean that up in late game situations we can improve significantly.

 

Thank you for that stat. Do you know how many games the Sox won last year in that same situation?

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QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jan 28, 2015 -> 04:17 PM)
I agree to some extent. Some of the crap the White Sox have been counting on the past few years was a joke. Most rookies struggle a bit. Counting on Micah Johnson or Sanchez to be really good is a stretch. You do need some extra starters. But Rodon is one of the better prospects in the game. Johnson was supposed to be a good prospect. Beck, I would be dissappointed if they counted on him to be successful, and Montas, while talented, doesn't have a whole lot of work to hang his hat.

 

Another starter would be great, but right now, unless you are going to spend a ton, you aren't going to get anything better than John Danks.

 

And don't forget we've got a guy who pitched 129 innings for the Sox last year. Scotty Carroll.

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QUOTE (Sox Fan In Husker Land @ Jan 28, 2015 -> 06:57 PM)
Thank you for that stat. Do you know how many games the Sox won last year in that same situation?

 

I went thru and looked at all games we won where we had a 2 run lead or less going into the 7th inning. Here is our win breakdown by division:

AL East - 7

AL Central - 15

AL West - 6

NL East - 0

NL Central - 2

NL West - 2

 

What I would say is many of these games I would give more credit to our offense for these wins than I would our pitching. Think of it like KC last year. They have a 3-1 lead going into the 7th and the final would end up 3-1 or 4-1. The game was locked down by the bullpen. What I see many times from our bullpen was lead 2-0 going into the 7th, have the game tied in the 9th and win in the 10th 3-2. There were many games where we would have 6-2 or 7-2 leads going into the 7th and win 6-5 or 7-6. To many runs given up in the 7th, 8th and 9th innings regardless of wins or losses.

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the games being saved from the 6 inning on will be greatly improve, the games saved in the short innings is going to be significant let alone the blown saves. this is why i am really stoke with an really improve pen.

 

but that is me.

 

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QUOTE (raBBit @ Jan 28, 2015 -> 08:39 PM)
Admittedly I don't know too much about Cleto but his bread and butter is his fastball and slider. In reference to his changeup, pitchers are usually looking for 8-11 MPH difference from FB to CU. Now there's definitely going to be successful guys outside the norm, I just wouldn't bet on Maikel Cleto's third pitch being that exception. It is the bullpen though so anything can happen.

 

The problem with Cleto is that he can't throw any pitch consistently for a strike. Unless he can do that, he is a career minor leaguer.

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I think I'm starting to like the idea of adding Joba Chamberlain to the bullpen.

 

He had an excellent first half of the season but really struggled in the 2nd half. During his off days, he was traveling back home to Nebraska to be with his ailing mom at the time, so you can say that could of affected him mentally.

 

Rosenthal also said that he has already turned down offers from teams he does not want to be apart of.

 

What you guys think?

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QUOTE (SoxPride18 @ Jan 30, 2015 -> 02:37 PM)
I think I'm starting to like the idea of adding Joba Chamberlain to the bullpen.

 

He had an excellent first half of the season but really struggled in the 2nd half. During his off days, he was traveling back home to Nebraska to be with his ailing mom at the time, so you can say that could of affected him mentally.

 

Rosenthal also said that he has already turned down offers from teams he does not want to be apart of.

 

What you guys think?

With all of their bullpen woes, it does make you wonder why the Tigers don't seem to want him back.

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