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Well, that is just wrong. Maybe it isn't likely, but with Cleveland losing several key free agents and possibly moving a starter, the division isn't unreachable. If the Sox added Harper, Moustakas, a decent starter and a pen piece or two (and there are many available), they could certainly be competitive. Especially if some of the young guys develop or, gasp, take a leap forward. Again, maybe it isn't the most likely thing, but to say there is nothing they can do is overly dramatic for the sake of being overly dramatic.

If we don't get Machado and Harper I'm gonna be pissed

I don’t think this is a very good take.

Similar to Lopez, I think age has to be a factor here. Rodon has thrown 500 innings of 4 ERA baseball while averaging about a K/IP, before he has turned 26 years old. Before he pitched in his age 28 season, Max Scherzer had a career ERA of 3.88. Sometimes guys with the elite stuff, that Rodon has flashed, take longer to develop the command. If Rodon can harness his control on a regular basis, he could be an elite pitcher. Even if he doesn't, he is still a pretty darn serviceable pitcher. ***** Please don't convey this as me saying that Rodon is Scherzer. It is just an example of another guy with elite stuff that took some time to get it all together.

60% of what we are hoping is one day a championship rotation is currently on the team. To not have a team who can at least think they can compete behind them, especially since your supposed championship middle infield is also in place, is really playing with fire. And who knows how Kopech comes back. Matt Moore didn't exactly dazzle after TJ surgery. Who knows how Cease will hold up? Who knows what will happen with Dunning's elbow. Who knows when or if Robert breaks out. People are already complaining about Madrigal for some reason. Collins, I think he will be OK, but probably not a 1-1 guy Hostetler said he would have been had he had the first pick. Burger, another question mark. Rutherford has always seemed to be to be a poor man's Ryan Sweeney. Is that something to be excited about? Face it, Moncada, Anderson, Gio, Lopez, Kopech, Rodon., Eloy....the Sox need at least a couple of these guys to be all star quality, and a couple to be really good players if they are only going to buy off the clearance rack.

Because most of the players on those teams were nowhere near Houston when they started winning. And the few who were still there developed, and performed. The White Sox guys we are all hoping for so far almost to a man, need to take a rather large step. Best case scenerio is great, and maybe somehow they all get good together. But something needs to light that match. It isn't trotting the same guys out there and hoping Palka and Delmonico aren't the guys who were let go for nothing from other teams, and Yolmer, who strikeouts out like Ron Kittle, but hits homers like Julio Cruz, isn't beloved because he pours water on his head. It isn't watching Adam Engel continue to show us he can't hit. It isn't trying to figure out if Minaya and Infante are indeed the same person. Maybe getting some wins, or at least coming to the park really thinking they can win will help Moncada. Maybe it will help Anderson and Giolito, and Lopez. Because if those guys don't step it up, it's going to be a while.

They absolutely need to add 2 starting pitchers no matter what happens because right now they only have 3 and all 3 of them have major question marks. Frankly, they could add 2 and a guy like Santiago last year who can pitch out of the bullpen and fill in gaps too. At the very least we need some guys who can throw innings...but one of the tricks is that Kopech and Cease are coming in 2020 and we need open spots for them, so whenever anyone in this thread says something about how we "shouldn't block guys", signing starting pitchers to deals >1 year does exactly that.

Me thinks the Astros would be thrilled to have any of those guys, and they had a pretty stacked rotation, they would have found a spot for Rodon.

You plan your offseason on contingencies. The number 1 priority, should be (and seems to be) Harper and Machado. If you sign one of them, your offseason should proceed as you should at least be competitive next season. If you don't sign them, then you proceed differently and guys like Cruz make no sense. You shoot for the moon, and adjust your strategy if you miss.

I don't understand why some fans would resist improvement because it doesn't make the team an instant title contender. If you have no third basemen and two giant holes in the rotation and there are no prospects ready at those positions, whats the downside? The time to tank is over. As others have said, if you are going to wait for the team to become great organically, you'll rebuild forever. Over a quarter of the team next year will be long term pieces and they are burning service time. Smart additions are exactly what the team needs.

Why does adding a whale and several other pieces only add 5 wins? There are multiple spots on this roster where even an average starter represents a significant upgrade. Why not plug those spots and try to have a roster in place that can be competitive if enough of the young guys take a leap forward in their development next year? People keep saying it’s impossible, yet I’ve listed three examples in the past two years of teams taking massive leaps in one year and making the post-season. Yes, it’s a long-shot, but I’d rather take my chances than to simply burn a year of service time of Moncada, Jimenez, Anderson, Rodon, Lopez, & Giolito in hopes of getting the 7th or 8th pick next year.

It’s amazing to me that by mid April we’ll have six former top 40 prospects on our roster (three of which were top 10 guys at one point), yet people still act like all our talent is years away. Yes there are more guys coming, but a big chunk of the core is already here and we can’t just burn service time in the interim while we wait for reinforcements. We are at the point in the rebuild where we need to start trying to win some games. That doesn’t mean we should go all in and start trading prospects or signing risky free agents to long-term deals, but there are short-term moves that can be made that improve the on-field product and help take some pressure off our youngsters / teach them how to win.

I don’t live in a Chicago and never have, so I won’t be buying season tickets. I’ve watched the majority of well over 125+ games per season since I was a kid, and I am now approaching 30. And I’d fucking love to watch .500 ball. I also realize I am not your average Sox fan. I don’t see how signing guys to try to make the team competitive halts anything. Our prospects are either here or a ways away. We can afford to get sign some stopgaps and try to progress. That doesn’t mean the Sox aren’t “doing it the right way”. The rebuild will be in a very bad spot if this team is picking top 5 in 2020.

You actually think our huge decrease in TV ratings the last two years is the result of losing “bandwagon fans”? I hate to tell you this, but the bandwagoners jumped ship a long time ago. It’s our core fanbase that’s losing interest in watching a 100 loss product. A semi competitive team would definitely improve fan interest and be a godsend for this organization as we begin negotiating a new TV deal. Having the lowest ratings in all of baseball doesn’t exactly create a ton of leverage for us in negotiations.

Again, I don't really care much for Donaldson at $23M. But I hope the Sox are at least receptive to these types of ideas. Rolling basically the same group out there next season is a terrible idea, IMO.

I worry deeply about Giolito, Lopez, Moncada, Anderson, Eloy (when he arrives) and a lesser extent the meaningful young bullpen pieces and Rodon taking it on the chin for another season. Like it or not, we need those guys to develop at the big league level and learn to win. Plenty of money to spent to fill holes and create at least a decent roster. I hope that is the direction they go. I guess we'll see.

While I agree that Donaldson probably wasn't a fit, I am not making decisions based on draft position any longer. This team needs to learn to start winning. Spending $25M on Donaldson probably isn't the best use of resources, but I am not avoiding the move because you're now the 8th pick instead of the 3rd. It is time to turn the page on the tanking days. I really hope the front office at least agrees there.

You can multitask, and continue to develop a core of young players, and at the same time, pursue generational talents like Harper and Machado.

Is there a plan, or darts at the wall again? I thought the plan was to develop a core of young players and then "go for it". Apparently not.

That's what I said

You’re going to be mad if we don’t get both?

If you count the $25 million/year they spent on Robert's bonus and penalties...they have to spend $45 million for 2019 just to keep the payroll from substantially dropping.

I really don’t know why a rebuilding team would trade stud young guys making nothing just to dump a contract. They would be better off just keeping them and eating money, or trading their youth for multiple prospects. I see no way they would trade on of these guys just to eat Cano’s money. It is a fantasy. trade the prospects for a salary dump and sell rebuilding to your fan base. Yeah, right.

Keith off the PP unit?! Halle-fucking-lujah!! Hawks PP should be much, much better just off that move.

The Sox entered the rebuild with some of the lowest ratings in baseball and no hope of building a winner. There was no other alternative at the time. It was either die a slow death or the blow the whole thing up. And unfortunately for the Sox, they’ll likely have to see what the Cubs do with their new TV deal before they can really start negotiations. Yes, I’m sure they’ve had some preliminary dialogues with providers and I’m guessing those parties aren’t eager to sign a long term contract with a 100 loss team with the worst ratings in baseball and who has shown no willingness to spend on big name free agents. What we do this offseason and how fans respond to it early next season will almost certainly have an impact on our next TV deal.

I agree Rodon absolutely could do this. He has the stuff to do it. I'm skeptical about him particularly because to my eyes he has shown absolutely no growth in his ability to pitch during his 4 years in the big leagues - he doesn't seem to have new ways to attack hitters, and the same things I wrote about him in 2015 are the things I was writing in September 2018 - when everything is working he's unhittable, but if he doesn't have his best control on both pitches he gets beaten around a little bit. If you watched him in 2015 and 2018, the only difference would be the slightly diminished velocity. It's weird, usually when guys are in the league for as long as Rodon they learn new ways to attack hitters, we saw that with all the other guys we developed, but I haven't seen that with Rodon. He reminds me a lot of Edwin Jackson - great stuff when everything is on, but only has 2 pitches and since no pitcher will ever have all his pitches working perfectly all the time, when Rodon doesn't have his best stuff for a few games he gives up 4 or 5 runs and labors through outings. He's a serviceable pitcher at the back of an average rotation, but that's not going to make this a competitive roster and people keep insisting it could be. Right now he's another guy that if we're saying "We are going to be competitive next year", he needs to break out as an entirely different pitcher than what he has been for 4 years of his career, and that's not even counting the injury stuff.

Why can’t we trade a starter if we have too much “good” starting pitching?

Sadly, for us (FutureSox), it isn't hard to change - it is impossible to change. We are at the mercy of the Trib on this. Again, very sorry, wish we could help.

Not saying this is realistic or even a possibility, but would if you're the Sox, would you consider taking on Cano's whole contract if they included Edwin Diaz as well?

When his FIP was 4.63 and xFIP that full season was 5.22, yeah. He's the most likely candidate from that list to break out next year and actually be a decent big leaguer, but literally the only guy from that list who would have even played for a good team like the Astros last year before injuries would have been Eloy. Out of that list, a couple of those pitchers might have been good enough to be the Indians 5th starter and the infielders would have been backups, and we're counting on these guys to beat the Indians?

The one thing I hate about tanking/rebuilding is most fans don't think like you. They seem to enjoy the wait for the young kids and adding more top five draft picks, whereas I'd rather the team try to win our crappy division and not waste Eloy, Moncada, Timmy, Avi, Abreu, Davidson/Palka, and some of our pitchers who are ready to win now.

Lopez, Giolito, Rodon, Moncada, Eloy. Who am I missing? Are you counting Abreu? Second point - out of that list, 4 of the guys I counted would register as "disappointments" to me, the only one who hasn't disappointed is the one who hasn't made the big leagues yet. This is a pretty rotten batch of impact talent so far.

No. No one would.

I have no idea why SS2k5 is so against the Sox spending money. Even if the Sox don't get Harper/Machado, I'd rather see them spend money on guys like Brantley and Moustakas and make the team somewhat competitive next year than do nothing and have a repeat of 2018.

No one is suggesting this should be a two year process, but unlike other rebuilds we already have a big chunk of our talent up already. We can’t keep burning the service time of all these young guys in hopes of getting a better draft pick. At some point we need to start plugging holes and give our team a chance of being competitive if our young guys take some leaps forward. If our first wave of prospects doesn’t progress quite a bit over next two years, the money we spent on short-term stop-gaps will be the least of our problems and the reinforcements a year or two out won’t really matter in the grand scheme of things...the rebuild will likely be a bust at that point.

The Cubs win 95 games and tell their manager to do more managing. The White Sox lose 100, and their staff is so great, they won’t change a thing.

Oh ok, so you are talking about 2016 Eovaldi who got injured and then signed 1 year deal (+ club option). I thought you were referring to current FA Eovaldi and I was confused.

So let me get this straight - putting aside Donaldson - you’d prefer to roll the same team out as last year without any major additions because you see no benefit in winning more games? Even if those additions are short term deals that don’t hamper the future of the franchise? Just....keep sucking for another top pick? M The rebuild will never end. The entire first wave of guys will be expensive before the 2nd wave has arrived and makes a difference. This organization needs to progress - they’ve been terrible for too long and can afford to begin supplementing, even if the reinforcements don’t include two of the most expensive FA contracts ever signed.

Are you serious

Yes I would say Yolmer is almost definitely the 2nd biggest fan favorite behind Abreu.

So you’re just going to ignore the facts that clearly show our TV ratings have dropped substantially since the rebuild started?

If we have the 3rd pick in next year’s draft, then a big chunk of the Moncada, Jimenez, Anderson, Rodon, Giolito, & Lopez grouping failed to take the next step in their development and are likely busts. I hope to god we aren’t picking that high again anytime soon.

Mixing in some veterans on short term deals that don't block meaningful pieces is the way to improve this team, along with steps forward from the young guys.

I didn't say a playoff appearance. There is a middle ground. A step forward.

What if signing Donaldson helped them land a "whale" like Harper? To say that it doesn't matter who plays 3B for the Sox next year just isn't correct.

I think we NEED a long-term premium third baseman. Maybe Burger is the real deal.

I hope I am wrong but I just do not think anyone who has any kind of name wants to come to our whitesox, I wait day after day for something positive to happen, gosh i hope I am wrong.

Evening fellow sox fans. Here a greek die hard sox fan. Ive been reading the forum fir a long time and wanted to join your company. Heres what i think. Why spend 400 on manny while theres a guy in pacific north that can be a solution? Yes kyle seager. Also another guy i like and is a fit is Carpenter from stlouis can play 3rd 1st dh 2nd and hit leadoff. Thats my take as far as the 3rdbase prob. As far as what else i think hahn should add is pitching pitching. Im not convinced at all about giolitto kopech is 1 and half year to go and our bullpen is terrible. So i would try trade for de grom or thor or sign corbin and add 2 relievers. Miller ottavino or kimbrel ottavino and let our outfielders progress in minors. Sign a 1 year ofer till guys are ready. Sorry for my poor english and im happy to join u guys

yea it does. You know if Solomon Thomas and Reuben Foster were tearing it up, you would be complaining even louder that the trade was too much. You can only compare the players that were drafted by the teams here, any theoretical alternate draft doesnt matter. I know you are salty about the price to move up, but it remains a fair price and Pace appears to have nailed the picks in that draft and the picks given up are certainly not biting him in the ass

Hey guys. Appreciate the concern. I have been out working on a key political campaign and decided to stay off of the internet while it was going on. I think I’ve mentioned before that i have ambitions to run for office some day so this was a huge opportunity. Really bummed I missed so much but it looks like nothing has changed.