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Already at max velocity

It’s not even revisionist theory. It’s simply people who didn’t like Thorpe at the time of the Cease trade grasping at straws to confirm their pre-conceived notions. They love highlighting the last couple major league starts he got beat up (likely while injured) but ignore his extensive track record of minor league success. I can totally get being concerned that Thorpe’s margin of error will be thin because his fastball is a fringe offering, but the immediate need to a write a player over a small sample size (again, while likely injured) is just absurd.

Yeah, he definitely has things to work on and has less margin for error than other pitchers because he doesn’t throw hard. But I think it’s disingenuous to act like Thorpe got shelled every time he went out there.

Not sure what is so hard to understand. The original reason this conversation even started was someone asking if other media members are reporting on this, which calls into question the accuracy of Fegan's report. As I said, in the post YOU quoted, we should believe what Fegan wrote as accurate information. They did make these investments, the things he reported on have happened. That is DIFFERENT than believing the investments that have been made will make an impact in wins and losses for the Sox. That is a totally different debate, and ones I have serious doubts about. But the information Fegan provided shouldn't be considered incorrect or not based on fact, simply because of his reputation at this point. He's a good reporter, I'm taking him at his word. We're not talking about his opinion.

Oh thank god you kind, kind soul.

Sure, maybe. Or maybe he just wouldn’t accept a NRI with the Sox. Of all the Getz related things to have an issue with, the Flexen signing is an odd one.

One bonus "like" for utilizing the criminally-underappreciated word haranguing today...

Everyone likes beating Houston

26 year old and under players

Lots and lots of revisionist history going around lately.

this thread doesn't deserve 7 pages. honestly , it doesn't deserve 7 responses.

We'll find out. I have hope for Getz; he seems reasonably humble and is putting together a team of smart people. He doesn't think he's always the smartest guy in the room. Refreshing, that is. If JR will give him the same budget he gave Hahn, he should be able to get it done. I thought Hahn was a putz almost immediately. Even though Getz has made some real howlers, he seems to me like he will actually try learn from his mistakes. And despite teh gaffes, he's also made some sharp moves that show open mindedness and creativity.

Today you need both. Also Thorpe was throwing 91-93 and was getting shelled. Safe to say that he didn't have the spin, movement and velocity to succeed at the MLB level. Once the book was out it was over. I am sticking to this until Thorpe proves me wrong. Soft tossers don't work in 2025, especially if they're right handed.

Buona is far superior now.

Like Garrett Crochet?

I fear what I'm about to say is going to turn into another huge debate with some incredibly silly back and forth, but I guess we'll find out. When talking about the extensions around those three, I would hope there was a discussion at some point about the makeup of each player, and how they would "respond" to generational wealth before having really any ML experience to speak of. Each player is undoubtably different, but they do all share the unfortunate trait of appearing on the DL far more than the average player, and many of those appearances seemed to be related to muscle strains, pulls and soreness. I think it's fair to question some of the time missed by all three players, and wonder if it looks different if these guys are all playing for their first contract extension at the MLB level.

From what I was told he has to fix himself. He got a little thick and lost the feel for his secondaries. The Rangers taught him a cutter and he threw it way too much because it was the only pitch he had. If he can get himself back into shape and find the feel for his breaking stuff he could be something. He's only 25 yrs old.

Makes sense that the bad team has to make a better offer.

Who? Stop speaking in generalizations and show the receipts. Regardless, I’m not sure your obsession with what “insiders” previously told us matters here. Fegan is reporting on specific tangible investments being made right now. This never happened under Hahn and we all could see it. No one is saying everything is fixed right now. We need to see if these investments and other actions (like hiring outside the org) pay off. That will take time. For now, it’s better to see us doing things differently and trying to address the massive cracks in our foundation than do the same old bullshit. No one is suggesting we should start doing cartwheels around the Rate to celebrate our upcoming dynasty, but there is some reason for optimism that maybe the Dark Ages will be behind us soon enough. And until Jerry passes, that is the best we Sox fans can hope for.

It’s funny that you had no problem questioning The Athletic’s Dan Hayes regarding his story about trade talks between the Twins and White Sox and Luke Keaschall. Do you pick and choose which journalists you believe and which ones you don’t based on if you like their stories or not?

Yeah, you’re not going to read the article and there will be no convincing you how blatantly different the actions Getz are implementing are from anything Hahn ever did. The articles about the org under Hahn ripped the Sox for being so behind the time when it came to data and technology. We were in the god damn Stone Age compared to the rest of baseball. And what’s funny is that we all could it see it came to roster design, pre-game planning & preparation, and minor league development. I have no clue what you think people were praising about Hahn. It was widely known we had the smallest analytics group and had to outsource many core capabilities. It’s widely known that we weren’t leveraging key technologies that greatly aid the scouting and player development processes. You can continue to shout and scream “this is all the same” but that doesn’t make it true. The reality is the Sox did very little modernize under Hahn and that’s exactly we have reached rock bottom as an organization.

Podcast: White Sox Big Data Problem

Don't you know Crochet getting good was 100 % all Crochet ? That's what I've been told. I've had this discussion many times.

Seems like they got what they wanted out of him - competent performance for half a year and a possibly useful future piece.

Just finished listening to the Soxmachine podcast. It’s a really good listen.

I suggested in the comments thread at FG that they offer a pay-per-article option and it got downvoted into oblivion. I’m still not sure why as it’s just less money for them. I’d pay for this.

The most interesting takes from Janish is that the comp of Baldwin to a Ben Zobrist was a lot "higher" (especially in the power department) than the likes of "Jamey Carroll, the Nick Punto, or maybe even a Jason Bartlett-type of player, Bartlett was more of a pure defender, but those are the kind of comps I would give" for Meidroth. That reads more like they see Chase as a utility player, and Baldwin as more impactful...a combination of a lesser Chone Figgins in terms of speed and a lesser Zobrist in terms of eventual power. Combine those two, you have a great, impactful player. Ofc it's not so simplistic, because the real question is to what actual extent with Baldwin does his speed/athletic ability/dynamism impact the game on the basepaths, stolen bases, advancing extra bases....but he's not (at least for now) the kind of guy you look at and project 20-25 homers from, at least not at this point. 12-15 homers at peak? 15-18? 20? That's what separates a 1.5 fWAR from a 3-4 fWAR guy, in the final analysis. Cutbacks to short-season ball (once upon a time, you had Bristol in the APPY League for HS draftees and Great Falls in the Pioneer for more advanced collegiate guys) have obviously impacted the White Sox as much as any team in the majors, IMO. Then all your Latin American kids that were making their debuts in the US but weren't yet ready for the SAL League/Kannapolis. The last observation is that the "hitting center" is still a work in progress, compared to the relatively more advanced development of the Bannister/Katz pitching school. Obviously, Fuller has just come into the organization this offseason, so it's going to take him at least a year to get into the full swing of things. Hopefully he can make a lot of progress with both Montgomery's, Gonzalez and George Wolkow as well.

To flip them at the deadline for reliever prospects that will later be flipped for our boy Cash Considerations. Sorry, I don’t make the rules.

I don’t think it’s that wild to say that since he doesn’t throw hard, he has to have that much more control and hit his spots to be successful. A lot of misses over the heart of the plate and he will get hit around. Having said that, I’m not writing him off now. It’s too early.

On the subject of this thread, I kind of like this signing. Gallo has a discernable skill: he can hit homers. If he's got 20-25 in July, a team will pay the Sox for that.

Jesus I don’t remember being that jaded in 2016 this was a rough rough decade

Now I am getting this as an advertisement at the bottom of this site lol so weird because I didn't even search it or anything

Interesting read. Some key takeaways: Continued emphasis on the integration/sharing of analytics/biomechanical data/etc to inform development. Sounds like "defensive versatility" will be a broader org focus, not just a way to maneuver the current roster. Janish thinks Teel and Quero are "very close" in catching/defensive ability, but gives Quero the edge due to having more reps (and caveats that he hasn't seen Teel as much). Offensively, he compliments Teel's track record and Quero's switch hitting. Described Meidroth and Baldwin as "not sexy in terms of size, strength, speed, or power, but they play the game well." Gives the Zobrist comp for Baldwin, and Jamey Carroll/Nick Punto for Meidroth. Says Wolkow has a higher floor than people think, in part due to makeup, work ethic, and coachability. Gonzo has added strength, while Colson has leaned out a bit. Org and Colson both believe he's a shortstop. Optimizing lateral movement at the position was an offseason focus.

This one? https://www.mlb.com/video/yoan-moncada-singles-on-a-fly-ball-to-center-fielder-mauricio-dubon-adam-engel-s He had also gotten a go-ahead hit late the night before.

It’s early, so while people are joking, I don’t think he has maxed out at 84-85. But 84-85 max velocity ain’t working for anyone these days, pitcher or thrower.

Or he could be a pitcher and not just a thrower?

I have no idea what they were doing with Thorpe. He simply does not have the velocity necessary to be successful at the MLB level in 2025.

I’ve always gotten the same impression with Moncada. One of my favorite Yoan moments was a few years ago, during a regular season game, when he got a huge hit up the middle to give us the lead late. I don’t even remember who it was against. Had to be a divisional matchup. But the emotion he showed at first base after the hit was unlike anything I had seen from him. It was awesome to see. Anybody remember this?

When we would order Portillo's to get mailed to us that's what we would do. Heat up the gravy and then you just take your beef and teabag it into the gravy for a little bit and then right onto the bread.

Since speaking bluntly isn't really working, I just deleted the crap out of this thread. If people want ACTUAL quality discussions, a great place to start would be the topic at hand, and not dragging crap from one thread to the next.

Honestly the Sox are lucky to have him both as a lifelong fan And a writer, and I hope some other offer doesn’t land in his lap to take him away(although I would be happy for him advancing his career)

Fegan’s not just a talented writer, he’s a good listen as well. Good sense of humour.

I don't think Colson is ready for the majors, but the Sox have the ability to not care about him playing poorly at the MLB level at least. Cubs don't have that. I don't think so - if Shaw is great, Bregman and Shaw is still better because it gives them options with Hoerner and Swanson. The Dodgers do this better than anyone, and it seems like other teams just haven't caught on yet. The Cubs should be fine with deferred money on Lester and Heyward, because it brought them a World Series win and like 5 years of sustained playoff success.

@Timmy U

Texas steaks and baked potatoes couldn’t have been much better, haha.

Which is entirely possible. The issue isn't signing Flexen per se, it's the history of this org burning gobs of money on the fringes of the roster expecting it to make a difference. Which is something Hahn did a lot, as did Getz in his first year. Perhaps Getz is learning that he can get equal value from an NRI and doesn't have to lock up bad players with good money.

I am not even sure why this article was written. Until Smith and Schultz show they are ready, there is no one in the system who is close to the majors who needs to worry about an extention.

Horrible numbers but he supposedly has a 5 pitch mix. Still only 25. Definitely worth a shot.

Awful news, Bobby is such a genuine guy. My brother and I took our sons to Spring Training in 2006 in Tucson and we saw Bobby walking out along the first base fence. The kids yelled their "hellos" and he walked over to the fence and talked with the boys for 5 or 10 minutes. He didn't have to do that. Get well Bobby!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Thanks. God forbid anyone express any optimism about anyone. Negativity until proven otherwise.