qwerty

Kalapse could one up this thread without even trying. All kalapse would have to do is go into detail about a recent s*** of his that he just got done examining... and that puppy would end up at least double the length of this one. Kalapse could convince some of you that the sky is purple, and that the grass is red, with zero questions asked.

For those of you that don't believe the original poster was being serious... well i still do. Not often do i come across someone that has the same viewpoints as myself. I think some of you are just being naive... and hearing what you want to hear... because you guys just can't grasp that there are different ways of looking at things. Get real guys, you are in no way better than us. Peace, homies.

QUOTE (Kalapse @ Apr 15, 2011 -> 09:59 PM) BANNED! f***ING BANNED! HOW DO YOU LIKE THAT? Someone is abusing their powers i see...

Felix seems to have been the most level headed out of the bunch... moderators included. ... just saying...

QUOTE (Kalapse @ Apr 15, 2011 -> 09:31 PM) Um, his average is .010 points below his career number, where were you 2 months ago? Were you complaining about his lack of batting average? If not I think it's time to slink away, little man. I have never commented on dunn since he was acquired...you would know him better as the free swinging lumber jack that can't fight through a simple surgery. Put it this way, if you do not believe me, you can check it out yourself, mr smarty pants.

QUOTE (Kalapse @ Apr 15, 2011 -> 09:19 PM) What's his OPS? OBP? Pit/PA? Just curious, are those bordering on the production of Mario Mendoza? What is the first stat always shown from left to right? Now when i say this i mean since the beginning of history... can this be denied? Someone needs to bone up on their history. Since clearly average is by far the most important... all those other fancy stats can... and should... be thrown out the window.

QUOTE (kapzk @ Apr 15, 2011 -> 09:11 PM) I dunno what makes you say that. He has 1 Hr, and 5 Rbis in 6 games that he has played with a .414 OBP. What is so horrible about that? Ever hear of mario mendoza? Dunn isn't even hitting at that level. Kinda pathetic if you think about it.

If this thread does not warrant a warning... what does? Felix is doing nothing but spewing irrational trash upon the soxtalk faithful. I figured this place would be able to control the animals a tad better than has been shown.

QUOTE (Felix @ Apr 15, 2011 -> 08:26 PM) He's played over 1400 in his career and has never been on a team that won more than 80 games. Click the following link if you want to see a winner real. Click me... if you are not a loser.

1 homer!?!?

QUOTE (almagest @ Apr 15, 2011 -> 04:24 PM) Inherited runners vs inherited runners allowed to score is already tracked, I believe. Sure... but not in the way he was looking for.

QUOTE (T R U @ Apr 15, 2011 -> 02:48 AM) Isn't there already enough stupid ass stats in baseball? QUOTE (T R U @ Apr 13, 2011 -> 03:18 AM) Im wondering why you think they still make the playoffs when no team has ever gone 0-6 and made the playoffs, much less even finished with a winning record There is a better chance they finish with a winning record, but I am gonna stick with the "they aint making the playoffs" I believe in the numbers..

QUOTE (WCSox @ Apr 12, 2011 -> 04:52 PM) Jackson was pitching the day after back-to-back 12-inning games. The decision to leave him in was about giving the bullpen a badly-needed rest. I made note of this in another thread. Pena would have had more than enough rest to go at least one, if not two innings. Even if he couldn't go two... crain would have been more than capable of going one inning after his 1.1 innings the day prior... as the day before that was an off day. So how i see it, there was no valid reason for jackson to go back out there at that point, it certainly was not because the entire bullpen needed rest. QUOTE (WCSox @ Apr 12, 2011 -> 05:42 PM) IIRC, arms tend to not always be fully-conditioned at this point in the season. I can't speak about Mark's specifically, but I could understand why a manager wouldn't want a guy throwing 130 pitches in early/mid-April after maybe one or two 6+ inning starts in ST. Who is this imaginary guy potentially throwing 130 pitches? Can't be buehrle. Well it could, but for him to toss 30+ pitches up there in one inning likely means he would have given up several runs before departing.

QUOTE (Greg Hibbard @ Apr 12, 2011 -> 02:48 PM) Can someone please tell me why they brought in thornton to face two righties instead of a righty. QUOTE (greg775 @ Apr 12, 2011 -> 02:49 PM) This is the problem I have with lefty closers. Righties lick their chops. I voted Matt for closer though just because last year at times he was so nasty and I felt he deserved the chance first. Now I want closer by committee all the way. Sergio first up. Thornton has murdered right handed hitters three consecutive seasons.

QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Apr 12, 2011 -> 01:36 PM) The White Sox are a .500 team in games during which they trailed after eight innings. What was their record last year when trailing after 8? They were 3-64 for a nice .045 winning percentage.

QUOTE (JPN366 @ Apr 12, 2011 -> 01:10 PM) He might have to. The only way he has a spot in Charlotte is if they cut loose Restovich. Then that would have to be the case. Restovich is clearly just minor league fodder... while milledge still has a chance to produce at the big league level. It a no brainer really.

QUOTE (WCSox @ Apr 12, 2011 -> 01:17 PM) Yeah, pretty much. Lots of silly Monday Morning Quarterbacking going on here. Pulling MB after 99 pitches was the right move. It's mid-April, he's still building arm strength, and he has a gazillion innings of wear and tear on that arm to begin with. You don't leave your starting pitcher in there just because your closer gives up too many extra-base hits in save situations, or because your left fielder can't catch. You also don't blame your manager for lack of player execution. Was sending jackson back out there for the 8th inning the right choice when he was right around 100 pitches with a 5 run lead? Jackson ended up with 119 thrown. Seems like there was no reason for him to go out for the 8th.

Nearly all of the league ''runs out of gas'' and pitches a bit worse in the second half. This has been like this since the game of baseball was created. It's a natural occurrence, and makes a ton of sense. The same most definitely applies to the nba. Those legs get tired after that long hall... especially if they are playing summer ball when the season ends. Numbers tend to have a slight downward trend in the second half... not for all of course... but for a good amount. So ozzie would get hired by another team once his tenure with the sox is over? Of course he will. This is how the mlb, nba, and nfl work... it's like a rotating door of the same managers/coaches... with a couple new ones sprinkled in every year/other year. Rarely do you see a one and done type manager/coach. So let's not pretend like ozzie guillen is in some sort of special class. Worse managers they ozzie gullien have managed several teams... it's just how it works.

QUOTE (Y2HH @ Apr 12, 2011 -> 10:50 AM) Not to mention Teahen has a dropped ball in LF this year, too...if I'm not mistaken. That makes him half as bad as JP, only with 1/20th the number of innings logged in left. Yes, that dropped ball was the error i mentioned, it happened on the 6th against the royals. The sox had four errors in that game... teahen, konerko, morel, ramirez... and they still managed to win the game 10-7.

Do you think i would be denied if i handed him/them nine dollars? I would fine it hilarious if they did.

QUOTE (oldsox @ Apr 12, 2011 -> 10:39 AM) Can Teahan play left? Sure, he has. Now how good he would be is a different story. In his career his time in left has been limited in comparison to right field. With the sox he has been out there for one inning... and just so happened to make an error.

QUOTE (Y2HH @ Apr 12, 2011 -> 09:45 AM) A fair assessment...however Buehrle himself said he didn't mind getting pulled last night, and has complained of shoulder soreness/dead arm due to workload on a few occasions now. As for his ERA, it's been on the rise, and I'm ignoring 2006, it's obviously he was gassed...again, pointing to why Ozzie is doing what he's doing, to avoid a repeat of that situation. I didn't check statistics, etc...but I remember Buehrle giving up a huge number of hits per inning last year while his fastball becomes less and less effective year after year (at only 32 years of age). Now that Ozzie decides to actually be more careful with MB instead of just talking about it, limiting his innings/pitch count, we want to jump on him for being a terrible manager because of 1 game, that despite pulling MB, we STILL should have won? Also, I don't think it's the inning count that Ozzie is worried about, it's the pitch count. If Buehrle could pitch all 9 innings at 90-95 pitches, I'm sure Ozzie would leave him out there every game and compile 240+ innings. I think they're more concerned with how many pitches it takes him to compile that 200+ innings you keep mentioning. Sure his era increased 0.21 in a three year time span, from 2007 to 2009. I personally view last season (4.28 era) as a little bump in the road, a hiccup if you rather, that happens to the best of them. I agree they still should have won last nights game, no doubt about it. I am jumping on no one by the way... just calling it how i see it. Check out some other boards sometime if you really want to see manager bashing, soxtalk is mild in comparison, let me tell you. Also, last nights game was just as important as any. I hate the theory of saving a guy for later in the season to win a game, when the game at hand is just as important. So you lose the game now... in hope of winning one down the road? Hope is the key word here. Makes no sense. Not even a little bit. Anyway, i would be willing to bet buehrle has at least five games this season in which he throws 110 pitches or more... which would totally go against what they are saying. Buehrle said he was cool with being taken out. But we all know what someone says... and how they truly feel are two different things entirely. Buehrle is just about the last person to start a word war with the org. Even if he was truly pissed he was not sent back out there to complete the game... we would never know... only those in the locker room would have a clue. 2007- 3.71 pit/pa. 2008- 3.69 pit/pa. 2009- 3.67 pit/pa. 2010- 3.68 pit/pa. This is where buehrle is at, and it is unlikely to change any time soon. I would also be willing to bet that he throws 2000+ pitches like he has done every year but two... and in the two he missed the 2000 mark he had 1998, and 1995 thrown. I personally just think they are bluffing, as it's common, and this should be expected in all sports. Could just be me... but that is how i see it.

QUOTE (Y2HH @ Apr 12, 2011 -> 08:58 AM) Thornton got pulled after he gave up a lead off double and Pierre errored, got lucky with that would be base hit line drive hit right at Konerko. At that point Oz knew Thornton was defeated and yanked him...it was over. Giving people a shot to get some confidence is one thing, but understanding when to say when is something else entirely. And at that point last night, it was time to put in Crain. Yes, Buehrle being overused. No, it's not baloney. Buehrle may get 200+ innings, but when an increasing number of those innings are trash (which they have been), it's useless. Eating up innings is fine when you post a 3.5 ERA, eating up innings when you're giving up 4.5+ per game is not unless you are a number 5 starter. Buehrle is not considered a #5, nor is he being paid like a #5. I am in no way disagreeing with what ozzie did after buehrle was pulled. If you agree giving people a shot to get some confidence is one thing... then i can't see how you feel it was the right decision to put him in there in a 1-0 game. Winning a game 1-0 is a accomplishment in itself. Generally it happens a handful of times at best... and that is including losing 1-0 also. Psychologically speaking, a 1-0 game seems more intense, more pressure, than lets say a 4-3 game. I may be wrong, but i personally feel different in the first scenario rather than the second... and i know i am not the only one is that regard. Seems to me like a pitcher would feel the same way... but once more i may be entirely wrong, but i don't think i am. Describe these trash innings? You mean when he gives 4-5-6+ runs? Everyone has these ''trash'' innings. So he has a s*** game, one or two great starts nullifies the bad... and that goes for mostly everyone. In the ten years of him starting his era has been above 4 only three times... only twice if you throw out (which you clearly can't) that 2006 aberration year. 2006 was the only year of a 4.5+ era... and as i said... it was nothing more than an abberation. In 2003 buehrle posted a 4.14 era... but his WAR was still a damn fine 4.4 wins. Last year he was at 4.28 and a WAR of 3.3 The three years prior to last year he put up 3.63, 3.79, and 3.84 era. Where does this 4.5+ era come from? In halladay's second year of starting he had a 10.64 era in 67.2 innings... which is a record for that amount of innings pitched. This is a two time cy young winner... and he just may be the best pitcher in all of baseball. One inning was not gonna be the deciding factor if that he has a good season or not ...in any shape or form... and i will stand by that. Buehrle is 32... it's not like we are talking about jamie moyer here... and even he had 2 complete games last year (buehrle had three). Essentially what i am saying is the sox are talking out of their ass... and buehrle will in no way be limited. He will get his 200+ barring injury as i have already stated. I don't see how that is limiting him one bit, but maybe that is just me. During ozzie guillen's tenure he has heavily relied on his starters... which is why the bullpen has literally been the least used during his tenure here. The sox starters also have the most ''quality starts'' which stems from the fact he let's them pitch, and let's them pitch deep into games.

QUOTE (Y2HH @ Apr 12, 2011 -> 07:14 AM) The logic is, and was, exactly what the poster you responded too doesn't want to hear. Whether you two want to hear it or not, it is what it is. Ozzie made up his mind that he'd not overuse Buehrle this year, as Buehrle has been running out of gas mid earlier and earlier every year as the innings pile on. Furthermore, it's been said that even in games like this one, Buehrle would be removed...where a closer *should* be able to protect a 1 run lead over an anemic Oakland offense. So basically your argument is the reason that thornton got pulled to boost his ''confidence''? This is what happened... i can't argue that... but i in no way believe it was the right thing to do. As others have stated, and i just figured it was a given, if he needed this ''confidence'' boost... it could have been done in a slightly less pressure situation. I personally think this confidence argument is a weak one, at best. I see it as nothing more than just another cover up for a boneheaded decision by ozzie guillen. Buehrle being overused? That is baloney. Buehrle is getting his 200 inning+ innings regardless of what ozzie guillen says. Ten consecutive years of 200+ innings ... sure he is not in the 220+ range like he was for his first full five years of starting. What really makes you think that is changing anytime soon? Because ozzie said it? That is a joke right there. We could write a book about all the things that guilen and the organization say... but never actually come close to happening. Buehrle could have easily handled that one additional inning... and on top of everything he was absolutely rolling. The first two lines seemed a bit insulting, you very well may not have intended such, but if you did... you can keep playing that game with thebighurt rather than me.

This would have never happened if buehrle was allowed to finish the game. Buehrle was at 99 pitches and had only given up two hits in 8 innings of work. Last season buehrle threw 110 pitches or more 8 times.. in only one of those outings did he give up zero runs. In the other 7 outings of 110 pitches or more he gave up anywhere from 3-5 runs. Where is the logic? This had a complete game written all over. Please no one say guillen was ''resting''' or ''saving'' buehrle for later in the season. Buehrle has a rubber arm... one inning is not changing anything either way. Four days prior to this game ozzie guillen let jackson throw 119 pitches in 8 innings. I realize the two games before that were back to back 12 inning games... but there would have still been a fresh arm or two. My point is ozzie guillen sent jackson back out there when he was right around that 100 pitch mark... and had a 5 run lead. Jackson in no way needed to go back out there under those circumstances. Buehrle under his circumstances... 2 hits... 0 runs... 99 pitches and known for being able to throw a ton of pitches if need be? Yes, that would have made a ton more sense. Buehrle was on a rolem and the bullpen has been shaky, seemed like a no brainer to me. In no way am i second guessing. This made no sense from the start to me. I'm sure someone touched on this at some point in the game thread.