Rex Hudler

QUOTE (RockRaines @ Mar 14, 2013 -> 10:15 AM) I heard that IU boosters think of him as the second coming of Lane Kiffin. Ouch! lol

Oladipo named Sporting News POY. Zeller 3rd Team All-America. 1st Team All-America Victor Oladipo - Indiana Marcus Smart (Frosh of Year) - Oklahoma St Trey Burke - Michigan Kelly Olynyk - Gonzaga Otto Porter - Georgetown 2nd Team Jeff Withey - Kansas DeShaun Thomas - Ohio State Shabazz Muhammad - UCLA Doug McDermott - Creighton Seth Curry - Duke 3rd Team Russ Smith - Louisville Cody Zeller - Indiana Ben McLemore - Kansas Allen Crabbe - Cal Shane Larkin - Miami All-Freshman (No B1G Frosh) Marcus Smart - Oklahoma St Shabazz Muhammad - UCLA Ben McLemore - Kansas Nerlens Noel - Kentucky Anthony Bennett - UNLV

QUOTE (RockRaines @ Mar 12, 2013 -> 08:25 PM) You have your moments of homerism but this isnt one. Who doesn't? lol

QUOTE (Heads22 @ Mar 12, 2013 -> 03:19 PM) In what world does Baylor get in over Iowa State? Iowa State beat Baylor twice, finished ahead of them in the Big 12 and have a better RPI. Bizarro world?

QUOTE (illinilaw08 @ Mar 12, 2013 -> 02:29 PM) The point I disagree with here is that Crean is any different than any other coach in this regard (and maybe that wasn't your intention), or that Crean is somehow doing it differently than other coaches. Every coach in the country recruits and offers guys that they think are going to be good college players. Every coach in the country misses on guys. Maybe those guys don't put in the time. Maybe those guys didn't develop the way the coach thought they might. Every coach is recruiting "winners." Every coach is also recruiting talent. Sometimes the talent doesn't pan out (see Jereme Richmond), sometimes it does. Sometimes you have a special player or group that put in the time and get better. Sometimes you don't. Frankly, the guy in college basketball who is the best in the business right now at "developing talent" is Calipari. If your kid is a 5 star recruit, send them to Calipari and see them get drafted in the first round the next year (even this year, Noel, Poythress, Goodwin and Cauley-Stein are showing up in first round mocks). EDIT: The best a coach can do is try to create the right culture and bring talent into that culture. Crean did an excellent job with this group at Indiana, but it is WAY too early in his tenure to say whether or not he will have the same success with different players (see Weber, Bruce). I won't argue with any of that. I don't know what other coaches look for when they recruit so I cannot speak to them. From the very beginning, I distanced myself from the comment that Crean was one of the best developers of talent. My argument was when someone else replied that he is not good because none of our guys other than Oladipo have shown any improvement (and that was just a fluke), which is just assinine. I don't know whether Crean is better than any one particular coach, but I can say with zero doubt our guys have improved during his tenure and from last year to this year specifically. You are correct in that this proves nothing for down the road. My guess is the Bruce Weber is a good head coach and is good at developing players, but it seems he lost control of the culture. It can happen to lots of programs. A typical way it happens is a small senior class with a lack of senior leadership and a few players that don't put the work in or think their way is better than the coaches. It can take time to rebuild a roster with the right guys, especially if the malcontents (for a lack of a better word) stick around and in essence don't allow the right kind of leadership to develop. I can tell you from playing sports, that no matter what the coach does, without internal leadership, a team will never reach its potential. Again, my argument is not to laud Crean as the best coach, the best developer of talent or to say that he will always have Indiana at the top (though unless he starts cheating and gets us back into trouble, we're not going back to doormat status!), just defending the idea that he is not good at developing talent based especially on this year's team. Thank you for having a civil discussion and having an open mind.

QUOTE (Jenksismyb**** @ Mar 12, 2013 -> 01:48 PM) I watch way more Big Ten basketball than I should, but i've probably watched Indiana games the second most behind Illinois games. Probably about 10 or 15 at minimum. Probably the same amount, maybe a little less, last year. Two of my good buddies who I talk college basketball with are Indiana fans, the rest are Illinois fans, so debating the two programs is a weekly thing. I've seen how Indiana struggles in the half court. I've seen how they struggle when they can't run. I've seen the leap a guy like Oladipa has made (a point you for some reason continue ignoring) and i've seen the lack of a leap of other guys, including Zeller. It don't have to watch every second of every game and read Peegs in order to see that. Get off your f***ing pedestal. It's Indiana basketball. Congrats to being relevant again. I know it's been a while. You're just being an asshole at this point and you STILL haven't addressed anyone's argument about Crean's coaching ability or his ability to develop guys except to say that he has and that anyone who thinks differently is an idiot. In the adult world that's not how you argue and debate, and everyone sees right through the bulls***. I most certainly have, just not in direct reply to any of your posts. It's not a pedestal at all. I'm the first to criticize my own team, but I'm also the first to defend it when someone doesn't know what they are talking about. If you think Zeller has not improved or that Hulls has not improved leaps and bounds over his four years, you are simply blind to what is good basketball. If you choose to ignore several other posts I have made referring to the improvement of different players just because it wasn't in reply to your post, I cannot help you. I asked you to scroll back and read 4 or 5 replies ago and you keep saying I haven't provided a response. I certainly have.

QUOTE (illinilaw08 @ Mar 12, 2013 -> 12:16 PM) THIS. Lots of sweeping generalities from both sides in this thread. Certain guys are self-motivated and will put in the extra time to get better (Victor Oladipo at Indiana, Deron Williams at Illinois comes to mind). Deron and Luther Head made Bruce Weber a great player development guy... until he wasn't. I'm sure Crean helped Wade when Wade was at Marquette, but it isn't like Crean was working with Wade every offseason as he became the player that willed the Heat to the '06 Finals (or Weber with Deron to make him an Olympian). Likewise, I'm sure Crean has helped Oladipo, but it's Oladipo that's making the decision to stay in the gym late and put in the extra hours to improve as a player. The impact of a college coach on player development generally is seriously overstated. You hit the nail on the head. I stated as much earlier, just not as well. The head coach recruits the right players and by that I mean talent and mentality. Crean has stated he looks for winners and when he recruits AAU games and how players play in AAU games that may not mean much or when the score isn't close weighs in on their decisions. The head coach sets the culture of work hard and improve or you don't play. The head coach gives the players the tools to improve their game, which includes but is not limited to assistant coaches who have the ability to teach. Calbert Cheaney can't coach on the floor, but do you not think he has influence on players as they watch film together? Do you know think players are going to listen to him? One on one instruction time with the head coach is not frequent. Yes, there is instruction during practice, but most of that is verbal and brief as they work on plays. If the head coach does all of that, and the players do the work, he gets credit for developing his players. If the players don't do the work or he has recruited players without much room for improvement, then he gets the label of not developing players. Recruiting and player development go hand in hand, along with setting the right culture for a program.

QUOTE (Jenksismyb**** @ Mar 12, 2013 -> 12:28 PM) That's not what I said. Learn to read. And player development was ONE critique of mine with Crean, the main one was his ability to read games and adjust gameplans/personnel. Jesus Christ. Indiana fans. The f***ing worst. How many IU games have you watched from beginning to end this year? Be honest. The fact that you are acting as if you know all about IU basketball is what is the worst. It's idiotic. When I start critiquing Illinois basketball to that degree, tell me to shut up and I'll do so. Until then, don't act as if you are an expert and when an IU fan that has seen way more games than you have disagrees act as if we're stupid. Then again, maybe I am stupid because I am arguing with a brick wall again. Sadly, the brick wall knows about the same amount about IU basketball as you do.

QUOTE (ZoomSlowik @ Mar 12, 2013 -> 11:33 AM) Kinda like arguing with a guy that posts opinions as facts and then questions your basketball knowledge if you dare disagree with him (and I do intend to stop). It is an absolute fact that many IU players have improved, which was his whole premise. It's not opinion. And anyone who has watched them play consistently and has any basketball knowledge will agree with that. In fact, it's quite obvious. If you want to talk about a guy who hasn't improved as much as one would expect, that would be Remy Abell. He's really struggled since the B1G season started. So no, it's much different. I'm not on here spouting off about how much Illinois or Ohio State players have improved or not improved, because I don't see them enough to know. A small sample of a few games is not enough. Nor is looking at a stat sheet.

QUOTE (Buehrle>Wood @ Mar 12, 2013 -> 09:43 AM) Eh, outside of farmteam the IU base is as delusional as it gets here. I shouldn't even ask... but I'm delusional? In what way?

QUOTE (He_Gawn @ Mar 12, 2013 -> 09:31 AM) This is hilarious. You can't solely look at stats. Victor made a huge jump last year too. You don't think Crean had anything to do with Victor's improved shot and ballhandling? We get it, you don't think Wade, Diener, Novak, and now Oladipo are in the NBA because of anything Crean did. We understand you hate the guy. The guy can develop wings, especially lowly 3 star ones. That may be why he has 4 and 5 star wings knocking down the door to come play for him... I honestly cannot believe you are trying to make this arguement. I don't think you've watched Oladipo play up until this year, have you? If you have, it's even more hilarious. He's being an idiot, whether intention or by ignorance I'm not sure. Ever tried to argue with an idiot? It's like banging your head against a very thick wall. You can never win so you just stop.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Mar 12, 2013 -> 05:53 AM) With playing time being what it is, there almost has to be at least one transfer. Someone has to be pissed about their minutes. My hunch is that could be Remy Abell. He's really struggled in Big Ten play this year and is not a SG, so he will be behind Yogi for sure. With others coming in and Sheehey able to play a guard position, I'm wondering if he doesn't see the writing on the wall. It's just a hunch.

QUOTE (RockRaines @ Mar 11, 2013 -> 07:48 PM) If Zeller came back (not likely) what happens to the schollies they were hoping on banking? I don't think that'll be an issue. There are a lot of possibilities. Apparently Peter Jurkin's foot injury has reoccurred (or resurfaced) and there is wonder whether he'll ever be able to play. Mo Creek will graduate this year and may or may not be back for a 5th season. Austin Etherington had a really bad injury to his knee and I've heard (not confirmed) that he had a similar injury in HS. If so, he may not be able to return. I don't see any way Oladipo returns. Lastly, it is my understanding that the Zeller's were willing to pay Cody's way this year if Patterson didn't fail the summer program. That is, if no one else transfers.

QUOTE (Soxbadger @ Mar 11, 2013 -> 06:55 PM) Lets hope they are doing it for the right reasons. Many people dont realize that NFP's can pay salaries, so for all we know the NFP is merely so that they can get donations and give tax write offs, while at the same time making large money. Its easier to get money from a corp when you can give a tax write off, than when you cant. So its likely they are cashing in on their name, the hope is that they are really doing it for the kids and not using the NFP as a tax shelter for their rich friends. This is a common problem with NFPs and one of the reasons Im kind of a dick to clients who call in about them. I only want to help them if they are truly doing it for charity. If they ask about salary and how they can pay themselves I find a reason to say they cant. The Zeller family seems like good people though, so I think they are doing it for the right reasons. Considering the message and content of the camps, I'm not too worried about that. Mr. Zeller as I understand it is the head of a Perdue Chicken Processing plant. Luke was playing basketball professionally overseas before half an NBA season this year. Tyler is in the NBA. Two of the three were class valedictorians and the other was 2nd in his class. Money does not seem to be the driving force behind the family, yet they don't seem to be hurting. They are teaching kids life skills with a Christian message. Not thinking they will be a problem.

QUOTE (IlliniKrush @ Mar 11, 2013 -> 06:14 PM) All Big Ten teams: http://grfx.cstv.com/photos/schools/big10/...13AllBigTen.pdf No real arguments there. Burke deserved POY in my opinion.

QUOTE (Jenksismyb**** @ Mar 11, 2013 -> 06:03 PM) Again, no response. Look, reasonable people can disagree. You've been given examples by me but poo pooed them away. You've been given stats but poo pooed them away. Just nut up and say you disagree and give me an example of a play or skill you think Crean assisted with instead of resorting to lame personal attacks about my knowledge of basketball. Scroll back and read a little. It's all there. Then watch a little more basketball and we'll talk.

QUOTE (Jenksismyb**** @ Mar 11, 2013 -> 05:34 PM) Its a pretty telling sign that you continue to evade giving any sort of response other than "oh you must be blind and stupid to think that way." When you are that wrong, there is no need to argue. That said, I have addressed the same topics in replies to others. There is just no need to get into something with someone making hamburgers up. I'll simply say it gain. If you claim that the majority of Indiana's players have not improved under Tom Crean, then you know nothing about basketball or are spewing something based off watching a highlight or two. It's simply not even CLOSE to accurate.

QUOTE (Brian @ Mar 11, 2013 -> 04:56 PM) We kicked him outta the club for being too old and grouchy Some days that's true!!

QUOTE (IlliniKrush @ Mar 11, 2013 -> 04:38 PM) Haha, I respect you more for that. I just looked on Stub Hub and tickets in my section in higher rows are starting at $250 a ticket. Doubt it will stay that way if IU doesn't get sent then. Will likely be a flood of tickets available at that point.

QUOTE (zenryan @ Mar 11, 2013 -> 04:44 PM) I was always under the impression Rex was a Michigan fan. Football only... most of my friends and many from Indiana are IU basketball fans and Notre Dame football fans. I chose a different path early on.

QUOTE (IlliniKrush @ Mar 11, 2013 -> 04:39 PM) If I were you I'd take them not making it entirely, not risking the chance they could win a game or two and not have it be as embarrassing. I considered that and it definitely factors in. But how nice would it be to see them lose in the play in game and that be discussed for a couple of days. The play in game would almost be a slap in the face to Kentucky. There is more risk in that scenario though, I agree. That said, I just looked at the SEC Tournament bracket and it will shock me if they don't make it to the championship game, which will get them in clearly. They'll have to beat the Vandy-Arkansas winner which is a given since the game won't be in Fayetteville. Then the winner of Missouri - Ole Miss. I guess Missouri can beat them, but they have yet to win a half way difficult game outside of Columbia this year so I'm not holding my breath.

I'm hoping some of you will understand the dilemma I have and can help, even if you don't identify with the details. I know a lot can happen in the SEC Tournament and this could be a moot point. But I can't decide which would be the better of two scenarios... 1. Kentucky fails to make the NCAA Tournament 2. Kentucky is selected, but is relegated to a "play-in" game, only to lose and not be around for the first weekend, which most of us consider the real start to the tournament. I just can't decide which one would make me happier. Help!

QUOTE (IlliniKrush @ Mar 11, 2013 -> 04:24 PM) Well I don't think you'll have to worry about it ahead of time. Like you said, you should get that regional. If you don't you get the regional you have time to put them online like stubhub, etc. Same thing if you somehow lose in the round of 32, you have time to use a place like stubhub. That or you can go directly to message boards of those teams and see if people are looking for tickets. Now, the more likely scenario is you lose in the sweet 16 and don't need the elite 8 tickets. To be safe, I'd bring them with to the game, you may be able to sell them to the winning team's (or the other winning team if they played before your game) fans on the spot. Another thing you could try is using your hotel concierge. When we lost in the exact scenario I referenced above, our concierge knew fans in the hotel looking for extra tickets when the game was over. Within a few hours we had cash for the tickets, and could check out of the hotel the next day without worrying about it. I did that last year in Atlanta and some Kentucky fan offered me 20 each for two tickets. I'd have sold them for $40, but I wasn't about to practically give them away to some blow hard Kentucky fan so I took them back to Birmingham and tried to give them away. No one took them so I ate them. Face value was $60 each. Oh well. The Big Blue can go to hell!

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Mar 11, 2013 -> 04:21 PM) I thought Zeller was supposed to have his degree wrapped up sometime around the end of this year's summer session? On course for 2 1/2 years, from what I understand. But that would take a side step if he started going to NBA camps, etc and was drafted this year.

QUOTE (whitesoxfan99 @ Mar 11, 2013 -> 04:01 PM) He isn't going to improve his draft stock by coming back another year. This year's draft is remarkably weak and he will go in the top 10. We will see if it is good as the hype but the 2013 high school class is supposed to be really good so you would likely see a ton of freshman pass him on the NBA radar. That's debatable only because I think with another year you will see him improve his range even more, including 3 pointers. I know its an exhibition, but he beat Hulls in a 3 point shooting contest earlier this year. It's a part of his game that has yet to develop (or surface). But I basically agree with you that he's already highly regarded so his stock can only improve so much. The thing you and everyone else are missing is, it's not his NBA draft stock that would bring him back. The Zeller's are a different family and prioritize things differently. They value education first and foremost. Cody will graduate in 3 years so coming back another year will take care of that. How well off the family is, I'm not sure. Given the cost of living in Washington, IN, I'm sure they are doing quite well. But the money, glitz and fame of the NBA just doesn't fit with the family. Plus, from all reports, the kid loves the college life. They'll sit down at the end of the year and discuss his game, maturity level, enjoyment, education, etc. and decide. I'm not saying he will be back, but it will not surprise me if he does come back. He's not a typical kid and they aren't a typical family. A side note, Cody's brother Luke and the family have started a non-profit business running basketball camps that teach life skills and leadership in addition to basketball. Here is a blip from the website. MORE THAN A SPORTS CAMP At DistinXion, we know that youth are our future, but we also know that it takes the entire community to lead, teach, and model for them the life skills that will help them make our future world a better place. Amidst a society that is lacking character, honesty, and integrity we believe your children are the beginning of a new generation that will grow into DISTINCT athletes with DISTINCT character. And we want the honor of teaching them! Join our community, join our family, and LET’S BE DISTINCT! They could be cashing in on their name right now and instead are starting a non-profit. DistinXion.org