Disco72
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Posts posted by Disco72
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According to the US Census, the Japanese population in Illinois is 20,379 or 0.2% of the state's population. (FYI, the state's Chinese population is 76,725 or 0.6%)
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I agree with others on this board when they say that this is not necessarily about one trade, it is about reshaping the Sox roster. Big bats haven't helped the Sox win squat since 2000. Even with Maggs and Frank out for large portions of last year, the Sox didn't have trouble scoring runs. Homeruns were definitely not a problem.
Of course, I'm in the minority because I believe that Dye and Everett (he who is given up for dead by some) can be productive major league players, especially at USCF. Is Podsednik a great player? No. Is Carlos Lee the second coming of Barry Bonds? No. Carlos has been in the majors for six full seasons and is 28 years old. He's not that "young" nor that likely to suddenly break-out into a super stud. Does he have the talent? Yes, but at this point, Carlos is what he is. A very good player, but not a great player.
The Sox are becoming a pitching-rich team with strong power (at least five to six 20-HR potential guys), better defense, and more speed. Those that want Willie to bat 9th got their wish. The Sox also have the chance to get a catcher or another starter or actually trade for a good player in July.
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By all accounts, KW has been working on trying to get Garcia for at least several weeks now. I don't think this was a panic trade or a gross overpayment. As I posted before, the outcome will determine how good the trade was in the long term (Sox WS, playoffs, etc). If the Sox wanted the best pitcher available, there was a price to pay. Better that than have him pitch against the Sox for NYY, BOS, etc. Its not the same as Beltran because of the "signability" issue. The Sox have a chance to resign Garcia (not sure what percent I'd give that right now), but Beltran is 100% going to become a FA.
As for giving up Olivo, for those who think it is a gross overpayment, why hasn't be been playing 4-5 days a week? Why has Burke been getting "Olivo's" starts? I really do like Olivo, but as has been posted, clearly something was strange at the Circle K. You don't just stop playing a guy that you are considering trading (you showcase him)... unless something was going on behind the scenes. It doesn't mean Olivo won't be very good / great in the future, but trading a guy who started only about half the games this month isn't exactly leaving the current team in dire straights.
Someone posted that they would be happy with a solid defensive catcher who calls a good game and has a good arm. It seems that Davis fits that description, even if his offense blows goats. (That info on Davis is hearsay, so if someone has real facts, please correct me). If our catcher (whoever it is) can bunt, move runners over, hit sac flies, etc. from the #9, I'm sure the Sox offense will be just fine.
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The Sox had to make this deal. When will the Sox be in this position again? Garcia gives the Sox four solid starters plus Schoeney/Diaz/Rauch. It shores up the bullpen if one of the young guys can kick Jackson to the curb.
Loiza is a FA, Maggs is a FA, Valentin is a FA, and I'm sure several guys are due raises in arbitration. This is now the best Sox team (on paper) we've seen in a long time, and one that has a real chance to make a postseason run. Will it? Hopefully, but I'd rather take the chance than wonder what could have been if Rauch/Diaz, etc flopped down the stretch.
We all liked Olivo, but he started only 12 of 23 games in June (by my count). Obviously there was a problem. Even if KW is spinning by criticizing Olivo's game calling ability, something was going on.
Reed is a good prospect, but the Sox have publicly stated their hard-on for Borchard several times in the last few months. Clearly Borchard is the untouchable and Reed was available.
As for those who think the Sox grossly overpaid:
1) if we resign Garcia, its a good deal
2) if we win a World Series, I don't care if Olivo is the second coming of Fisk.
3) what'd you expect Seattle to take? A few AA guys, a bag of Starbucks coffee, and some Chicago-style pizza?
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BT also said KW questioned Olivo's game calling skills, hence he was only catching Garland and Loiza...
Don't like to criticize Olivo, but Burke had been playing alot lately...
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Does anyone know much about Davis? His scouting report on ESPN indictes a good arm, and I know he's hitting like crap this year. Was/Is he considered a decent player?
Sox had to get a pitcher... Garcia was the best one out there. MO is a good catcher, but not great. Don't forget that Sandy played down the stretch last year when MO was struggling. Don't get me wrong, I love Olivo, but we just acquired one of the best pitchers in the AL this season.
He might become great, might. We all hoped he would, but if you're going to win the Series, you need four horses in your rotation... we now have at least three good/very good pitchers, and hopefully Garland will pitch like he did earlier in the season.
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So JD Drew is overrated now?
What's so overrated about him? His career .387 OBP that has been increasing each of the past two years? His career .283 AVG that's also been increasing?
JD Drew is exactly what this team needs; a lefty bat who can get on base and hit for fairly high average.
I still think Drew is overrated, but clearly several others really like him. That's cool, but IMO, his stats (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/stats?statsId=6117) don't compare favorably with other 28-year old outfielders. I'm biased because I have always considered him overrated.
Living in Peoria, a city overrun with Cardinals fans, I heard so much for years about how great a player he was/is. But when he was traded, I didn't talk to many Cardinal fans who were very disappointed. They were sick of waiting for him to reach his potential and for him to play a full season.
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Regarding Drew - half a season does not make a player great. His previous major league stats do not suggest that he's anywhere near as good as his hype.
True, his salary for this year is attractive.
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I'm not sure that I understand all the love for JD Drew on this board.
Here's a guy who has never played more than 135 games in a major league season (only twice played more than 109 games), has never hit 30 home runs in a season, whose career RBI best is 73, and is represented by the biggest money whore in the major leagues.
And he is the pick over Jones? Jones has had better offensive years, better defensive years, and is a year and half younger. Sure, there are questions about if Jones is complacent and declining... but Drew? Seems an even bigger risk.
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The actual text from the Atlanta Journal Constitution article:
Deal may include Andruw
By DAVID O'BRIEN
The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
Published on: 6/26/04
Baltimore -- The Braves might be close to trading pitcher Russ Ortiz to the Chicago White Sox, and there are rumors the deal could possibly expand into a blockbuster involving outfielders Andruw Jones and Sox slugger Magglio Ordonez.
The Jones and Ordonez portion, which was making the rounds in Chicago on Saturday, couldn't be confirmed by reliable sources with either team. But a White Sox official confirmed there have been ongoing discussions about Ortiz.
The Braves would likely get 6-foot-11 pitcher Jon Rauch in any deal for Ortiz. Rauch had his best major league start Thursday against the Cubs with Braves scout and special assistant Jim Fregosi in attendance.
The Braves have been offered Rauch and a couple of outfield prospects for Ortiz. However, general manager John Schuerholz indicated Friday, without talking about specific discussions, that he wouldn't make a deal that wouldn't help the Braves now.
Trading Ortiz for Rauch and prospects would not help the Braves now, and could send a signal to fans and team members that the Braves are looking to next year.
There has been nothing from Schuerholz or manager Bobby Cox to indicate that. They still believe the Braves can win a 13th consecutive division title.
That's why acquiring Ordonez would make some sense. He's making $14 million this season and can become a free agent this winter, and he has let the White Sox know he wants a four-year deal worth $14 million a year. They want him at about $12.5 million annually.
So if they don't think they can re-sign Ordonez, the White Sox could justify paying the three years and $39 million that remain on Jones' contract after this season. Jones is making $12 million this year.
The White Sox want sizzle to compete with the Cubs for attention in Chicago, and Jones' reputation as a six-time Gold Glove winner and consistent 34-35 home run hitter has sizzle, even if those who see him every day see his overall performance declining.
The Braves need a big bat and clutch hitter, and there aren't many better than Ordonez. He's a .308 career hitter who averaged 32 homers and 118 RBIs the past five seasons, with at least a .380 on-base percentage for three consecutive seasons.
He was batting .311 with eight homers and 34 RBIs in 42 games before having arthroscopic knee surgery, and he's expected back in about a week.
With the money the Braves could save by trading Jones, they could possibly afford to re-sign Ordonez or J.D. Drew. Ordonez has played almost exclusively in right field, but does have some experience in center. Drew is exceptional in center or right field.
Rauch, 25, hasn't developed as the White Sox hoped, but remains a prospect in part because of his extreme height and wing span. He doesn't throw sidearm like 6-10 Randy Johnson of the Diamondbacks, and the arm angles Rausch presents are a unique challenge.
He has a 3-2 record and 6.51 ERA in 10 games (eight starts) for the White Sox, two this season and the others in 2002.
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I wouldn't say its the biggest win of the year. Needed? Absolutely, but until the Sox can beat the Twins consistently, and, oh, I don't know, win the division, "biggest" wins should be against the Twins. Every Sox game vs. the Twins should be a "statement" game for the Sox.
Of course, it is always, always good to beat the Cubs.
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A nice outing by Diaz. Just as the Sox (good) luck in one-run games early in the season was due to even out, so was the Sox (bad) luck (and bad pitching) by minor leaguers/fifth starters bound to turn around. Its not like the Sox were calling up nobodies to pitch - they all had success in the minors. Not that minor league success automatically translates into major league success, but sooner or later one or two of these guys was going to pitch a good game.
Now if the Sox can trade for another starter (I've recently heard Ortiz and / or Moyer) and maybe use one of these guys (Diaz, Rauch) to firm up the pen, things will be looking up. I'm not nearly as pessimistic about this team's chances as some of my fellow fans on this board.
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I hear that - I'm in Peoria and maybe get half the games. And I'm too close to chicago to get mlb.tv.
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Wow! Jose coming up big in 8th and the 10th! The Sox really, really needed that.
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I hope to see a few K's with that big curveball!
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ChicagoSports article:
He gone: Sox discard Koch
Traded to Marlins for minor-leaguer
By Bob Foltman
Tribune staff reporter
June 17, 2004, 11:27 PM CDT
MIAMI -- It wasn't the trade everyone expected, but one many White Sox fans will greet with joy.
The Sox traded reliever Billy Koch to Florida after Thursday night's 2-1, 11-inning loss to the Marlins. In return for Koch and cash, the Sox received Triple-A shortstop Wilson Valdez, 26, who's hitting .319 at Albuquerque.
The move should free up some money for general manager Ken Williams to make a trade for a fifth starter.
Seattle's Freddy Garcia perhaps?
In the interim, Williams announced Arnie Munoz will be called up from Double-A Birmingham Friday to start Saturday's game in Montreal.
Williams said the emergence of Shingo Takatsu left Koch without a role in the bullpen.
"Billy became the odd man out simply because, if you look at his usage the last week, it was evident to all of us that he didn't fit in late game situations," Williams said.
Koch blew a pair of saves on the Sox's West Coast trip at the beginning of the month and lost his closer's job. He also lost the job last season after struggling in the first half.
Koch was acquired from Oakland along with Neal Cotts for Keith Foulke and Mark Johnson in December 2002. He was coming off a 44-save season for the Athletics but never got on track with the Sox.
"I just [stunk]," Koch said. "For whatever reason, I just didn't get the job done. I need to turn the page now. It's a fresh start."
It's that kind of candidness that impressed Williams.
"He came in here and apologized for his efforts and really felt remorseful," Williams said. "[He] expressed to me directly he understands that I had a lot of faith in him and he didn't get the job done."
Koch had 19 saves in 79 appearances with the Sox. This year he was 1-1 with eight saves and a 5.40 ERA. In 231/3 innings, he gave up 24 hits and issued a whopping 16 walks.
He was owed about $3.75 million on a contract worth $6.375 million this season. Williams said the Sox will pay more than half the remaining balance.
"I thought I would be moving before the [All-Star] break," Koch said. "I didn't know it would be this early. It frees up a lot of money. This is a great ball club in here."
Like Williams, Sox manager Ozzie Guillen was impressed with the way Koch handled adversity.
"It's a good thing for him he's out of Chicago," Guillen said. "Between the media and the fans, it was tough for him. When he got the save, he got it in an ugly way, but he did it."
Just not often enough.
Copyright © 2004, The Chicago Tribune
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KW confirmed on ChicagoSports that Munoz has gotten the call for Saturday. I think we're all looking for another trade in the medium-term.
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ChicagoSports finally has the info on their website. Munoz has been called up to start Saturday's game, and the Sox are paying "more than half" the $3.75 million left on Koch's contract.
http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sp...-home-headlines
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The only thing about that is that Kenny has not shown confidence in bringing up position players he drafts so soon. It usually takes an injury on the SOX for him to bring them up. Ozzie doesn't seem to be big on greening kids in a pennant drive either.
The problem is that year after year the team is always in a pennant drive.
So when does this greening take place?
Are you complaining about the Sox constantly being in a pennant drive?
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FYI, regarding Ohka (from ESPN.com):
RHP Tomo Ohka underwent surgery June 12 to repair his broken right forearm. Ohka, 28, was injured in the second game of the June 10 doubleheader at Kansas City when he was struck by a line drive off the bat of Carlos Beltran. X-rays revealed a displaced fracture, which is expected to sideline him for the rest of the season.
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Don't forget:
Its still early.
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You got to like Miggy standing up for the team though... is it just me, or is everyone else looking forward to seeing this kid play everyday? (not that I'm happy that Sandy got hurt again, but he looks like he's going to be a real stud!... the highlight of the season for me so far.)
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If losing builds character, as Sox fans, we have a ton of character! But Sox fans we will be till the day we die!
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For a couple years, I have been the biggest fan of trading CLee, but I think he is finally starting to live up to his potential. He's swinging for the fences less, getting on base more, making better defensive plays, and hustling on the basepaths.
I'm not convinced on Mora either.
Needed: A Good Bar to watch the Sox
in Pale Hose Talk
Posted
If anyone else is in Peoria, I'd love to find a good Sox crowd here. I'm stuck in Cardinals / Cubs hell... I think I know the only other former Sox season ticket holder that lives in this town.