mmmmmbeeer
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Posts posted by mmmmmbeeer
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5 hours ago, chw42 said:
Anyone got a link to the press conference?
Edit:
Thanks for the link.
Went back and watched and was admittedly encouraged. Pedro didn't seem nervous, spoke convincingly of how he wants to run things, wasn't shy about his embrace of modern baseball and allowing analytics to drive games. Rick was his typical evasive self, including when it seemed Pedro wanted to mention changes in regards to player health they're making to "sports m...." before Rick cut him off.
Considering the last time we had one of these press conferences I was simultaneously enraged and confused, it didn't take much for this to get me excited. That said, I think this guy could be more than "at least he's not Tony".
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On 11/1/2022 at 2:21 PM, Dominikk85 said:
I think sports science basically hasn't made any progress in injury prevention. There are a lot of theories and methods but especially on the pitching side nothing has worked. Sometimes a team will have a period of 2-3 years with good health and people think they have the code cracked and then everyone gets injured in 3 months, I think that is more pure coincidence.
Evidence for that is that even the smart teams like the dodgers and rays have tons of injuries, nobody has cracked the code.
Sure there are factors like player age and injury history affecting injuries but there is really nothing yet that can be done that really works.
Baseball really just is having depth and then also hoping for some luck in the injury department, every team loses players but you hope to be it on the lower side
I don't know, man....Herm Schneider kept us one of the healthiest team in baseball on a pretty consistent basis. A guy who probably didn't pay much attention to the all the new science but spent 40 years honing his craft by learning which stretches were best, treatment effectiveness, etc. Every team is going to have injuries, that's unavoidable, but Herm's record is amazing. Especially when everyone and their brother were tearing their UCLs....Sox had limited instances under Hermie.
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Were you in a Chicagoland hospital a few months back by any chance, Lip, sharing all of this with a hospital employee? 😁
There are some things that just don't make sense to me, which could be a matter of folks injecting their own narratives into what they tell you. For instance, you've got one source saying Moncada spent all his time at Jose's locker and another source saying Moncada has his money and doesn't care about results any longer. Unless we're to believe that Jose, clearly an influential person to Yo and a clubhouse leader, let "his guy" just perform poorly and not say anything to him about his performance, these two sources' stories just don't jibe, imo.
Regardless, interesting insight and really punctuates just how rudderless of a ship this franchise is. Whomever owns this team next, I sure hope they do a full housecleaning.
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8 hours ago, Sarava said:
Rick Hahn claimed in the press conference that White Sox ties is 'not something were looking for at this time'. I guess we will soon find out if he was lying.
I don't think "lying" is appropriate...more like "find out if he was overruled...again".
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I've never gotten the impression Thome is an especially intelligent guy. It follows he would have little to no reliance on data helping to steer his managerial decisions; he would be another "gut" manager. Of all the names we've heard, some much more unimpressive than others, Jim Thome shouldn't just be at the bottom of the list, he shouldn't even be on the list.
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On 10/10/2022 at 11:20 AM, southsider2k5 said:
This is how I understood it. The Sox contract the company, and the company does the hiring and paying.
That's not an excuse. When that contract was negotiated, the Sox had enormous leverage to include worker compensation requirements.
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10 hours ago, palehose1 said:
se the posted prices significantly but they add sales tax separately. Add in a tip and a beer that was $11 "all in" a year ago is now $15. I understand inflation but I also can identify greed to. I spent less during my ballpark visits in 2022 than in the past.
I get trying to make each season profitable but, let's be honest, with few exceptions we see the biggest gains in franchise value through simple asset appreciation. Reinsdorf and company bought this team for $20M....it's now worth (conservatively) $2billion. And they want to stick it to the fans after a b.s. season? They want to whine about payroll? Here's a helpful hint to ol' Jerr...you're about to die soon. If you want this team to climb in value on your way out the door, get to spending and improve your product. Build the fanbase, increase the TV deals, sell more STs. Dicking over fans while your initial investment has grown nearly 10,000% over the past 40 years is just disgusting, especially given the lack of competitive seasons this franchise has mustered over the decades under Reinsdorf.
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Expectations suck so much because they tend to draw you in, instill empty confidence, and always leave you believing things will eventually turnaround. No matter how frustrated I became throughout the season, I just couldn't resist watching or tuning in to listen to games...only to be left asking myself why I chose to subject myself to more misery, anger, and frustration. I just couldn't shake off the expectations that not only the org set for themselves, but that I set based on this roster and previous performance.....Charlie Brown and the football situation.
Alas, next spring I'll fall right back into the same trap. I'll blame the weather for underperformance. Or maybe it's an umpires fault. Or maybe I'll believe someone is playing hurt. No matter the cause, I'm a White Sox fan and therefore a masochist. Maybe things will go our way next season? I know I'll be watching/listening to find out!
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14 hours ago, The Kids Can Play said:
Off their radar if they are smart and have other options!
Veteran stud winning manager might have a checklist like this to examine the Sox organization:
1. Smart and aggressive spending owner willing to do whatever it takes.
2. Intelligent and successful GM
3. Strong farm system to pull talent up from
4. Solid roster
5. Team is strong on fundamentals
5. Team is strong defensively
6. Solid starting pitching rotation
7. Solid bullpen
8. Team is strong in producing runs by solid hitting, base running and power.
9. Team hustles on every play
10. Front office is into modern day analytics and has a large staff to support modern day baseball metrics
11. Organization seems to have a strong medical and training staff.
I'm not quite sure one single criteria above, or very few get checked off for a veteran, winning and successful baseball manager.
#1 and #2 pretty much sum up why a stud winning manager won't be excited for this job!
Why would this hypothetical team be looking for a new manager? I mean, you're describing a world class, winning org.
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6 minutes ago, bmags said:
I'm assuming a quality GM has an actual ability to use information not available to me. But I don't quibble with the idea the roster largely needs to move forward, I put forward my "eat s%*# and deal with it" roster that I do think gets them to the playoffs because I still cannot imagine Grandal and Moncada being this bad, but it is deeper, and I don't have the benefit of all the salary amounts yet but I figured this was about the same salary range as this year.
I appreciate that you acknowledge that Hahn's decisions are of the same level as a fan with only an ability to search fangraphs and baseball savant, but despite me actually being a big Canha fan, I'd have chosen neither. Last offseason I set a number of things the sox needed to balance to compete with the Astros, and acquiring a right-handed hitting LFer just did not fit on the list.
I point out that there were a number of outfielders that moved teams last year and he chose among the worst one (he didn't go after Castellanos! Yay). I didn't even bring up a Starling Marte, whom WAS someone he couldn't get with Jerry as an owner.
How much of a role do you think our managerial situation had to do with not only the contracts we DID sign (trade for) but our lack of FAs coming to Chicago? Do you think free agents were lining up to play for TLR...a big selling point for the FO?
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1 hour ago, bmags said:
Rick Hahn built the most expensive bullpen in baseball and it ended up 20th in ERA. His committed money is still $50 million in the bullpen for next year.
Schwarber signed for 4 years, $79 million, not $100 million. That's $7 million more than Yasmani Grandal 3 years ago. He couldn't afford it because Rick started the offseason at $180 million with a $16 million closer he needed to unload.
I don't just b**** and moan about the players he doesn't get, I b**** and moan about the players he does get. They are both bad.
Rick held on to a $16 million contract so he could trade it for a 2 year $30 million outfielder who ranked 40th out of 49 outfielders in fWAR.
The Mets paid Mark Canha 2 years $26 million and got 2.5 WAR and a 126 wRC+. That's not $100 million. That's just deciding to not pick up the option on Kimbrel and going after Mark Canha. What's that? But Mark Canha's a LFer...oh no.
The Royals got Benintendi and cash for a RFer for Franchy Cordero whom they acquired for a middle reliever. No prospects needed. Benintendi finished 18th out of 49 qualified outfielders and was paid $4.5 million.
The Phillies took on Schwarber for $20 million, that would have cost the white sox not getting AJ Pollock AND Josh Harrison, but they would have gotten 20 more HRs from the left side.
Tony Kemp, soxtalk soup de jour in the offseason to replace our 2b, was only barely outhit by pollock and his superior defense actually put him ahead of Pollock by 1 WAR. He made $10 million less.
The fun thing about baseball is we have 29 other orgs that we can look at with similar circumstances and info and say, hey how are they doing compared to our org. The answer, unless you are the Rockies or Tigers...is better.
If I told you last January you could have AJ Pollock or Mark Canha for the same money, who would you have chosen?
I appreciate the reply and I agree he could've done better...every GM can do better. I just don't think the pitchforks should be out.
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26 minutes ago, bmags said:
I don't buy this at all. Regression is bound to happen, but what are we regressing to? A world series champion? Hahn has shown the only pieces he is capable of putting money behind is an atrociously overpriced bullpen and 35 year old veterans.
The farm is empty, prospects have been excruciatingly expensive in the trade market, and teams aren't handing out 25-28yo good players for peanuts. Free agency dollars are determined by JR, a man who has NEVER paid to sign a player to a $100M+ contract.
So what's he to do? Find value. To say the RP market has been the best value position in baseball the last 5-10 years isn't an incorrect statement....good bang for your buck as the game evolves to become so RP reliant. Royals and Cleveland both rode extraordinary bullpens to the World Series within the last decade. Be it Robertson, Herrera, Liam, Graveman, Kimbrel, etc., they weren't necessarily "bad" moves if those guys pitched to their career norms. The Kelly signing was an egregious overpay but you can't convince me that wasn't a TLR signing.
Just seems we b**** and moan about all these players that Rick doesn't get, the fact he signs older veterans, etc., with absolutely zero thought given to why he's forced to do those things. You don't think he wanted to bring Schwarber in this past offseason? Of course he did....but the money wasn't there.
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Bye, Jose. He gawn. For as great as Rick is at saying nothing, he definitely (unintentionally) showed his cards when the subject of Jose came up.
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Fathom. To watch his bad takes implemented on a baseball diamond would be...chef's kiss.
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48 minutes ago, Bob Sacamano said:
say no to Ozzie
If there were ever a time for Ozzie to come back to manage the Sox, it's now. I've always been against the suggestion in the past and don't believe he'd be a good choice in the future, either. But right now, with a heavily Hispanic team, a guy who is actually "fung", believes in accountability, and knows this team like the back of his hand, I wouldn't hate it.
This is speaking strictly to the personnel side of the equation. He is certainly not an analytics guy and isn't some strategic mastermind. But he would make this team better.
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49 minutes ago, Colome's Hat said:
He'd be great and Dusty has given no indication that he'll step down either.
Saw an article the other day saying that Dusty's contract ends after this season and there's been no sign of an extension, so far. Same with their GM.
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On 10/1/2022 at 5:49 PM, GreenSox said:
Because I'd rather the Sox not lose the one person in the dugout (and possibly the one guy in the entire organization) who uses (or at least tries to use) state-of-the-art analytics.
If they are really cleaning house, then that means we will load up with modern thinkers, so fine, he can go. But if it's the culling of a few scapegoats, then it's essential that he stays.
He'd certainly be given every opportunity to lobby for himself to keep the job and I'm sure, if the staff feels strongly about him staying, the new manager would welcome and consider their input. That said, if the new manager and Katz don't see eye-to-eye, be it on a professional level or on a personal level, then he's just not going to be a good fit.
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I'm actually pretty fond of the Beltran idea. He'd be the antithesis of TLR which, if this front office wants this team to buy in in 2023, that's what it's going to take. Young, hungry, player-friendly, call out shitty effort, someone who will show some fire....Beltran checks the boxes. Am I a fan of the fact he was part of the sign-stealing? Nope. Do I think that disqualifies him from managing in MLB? Nope.
Regardless of it being Beltran or not, I want RH to choose HIS manager and I want to see a variety of candidates interviewing for the position. The coaching staff should be the manager's decision.
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I hope they run it back minus Abreu. I just don't believe this season was at all representative of what this roster is capable of doing. A tweak here and there and I think we're still a WS contender. Get healthy, get a fresh start with a new coaching staff, watch these guys play as underdogs instead of favorites. That said, I think I put a lot more blame on TLR for this disaster of a season than most...perhaps more blame than he deserves in some folks' opinion.
I may look into dealing Gio so we don't lose him for nothing but there's probably value in waiting until the deadline next season to learn if he's turned things around. If he has, he's worth hanging onto despite no return.
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I'm still a big believer in Hinch and, considering he was clearly RH's pick before last season, there's clearly interest there from the Sox.
I don't think you can go with Bochy. I know he's younger than TLR, been out of the league a shorter time than TLR, and definitely a more favorable personality in MLB than TLR, but he's just too damn old. You can't face those players and tell them, "yes, we know he's another older manager but, TRUST US, it'll be better this time!". Players will not buy in.
What we really need is 40-50yo experienced latino manager who is known for being a bit edgy. Don't know who that is, but it's the absolute antithesis of TLR and that's the most likely to work.
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2 hours ago, TheFutureIsNear said:
Hahn deserves a lot of blame in many other places, and I’d rather he not be back to retool the roster…BUT when a GM trades for a 10 year vet with a career slash of .277/.332/.477 (probably better but don’t feel like looking up what it was before this year) and that player suddenly hits .247/.293/.395 is it REALLY the GM’s fault? I suppose it was fair to expect some regression switching to the AL, but who honestly could have seen AJ being a completely incompetent hitter coming? I know Hahn is a (deservedly) easy target, but I’m honest enough to admit that I thought bringing in Pollack was a solid move before the season. And I think most agreed if they are being honest.
It's also worth noting that no one on this team beat offensive expectations, with several players having the worst seasons of their careers. Oftentimes, we can point to a coaching issue when things like this happen. This is ESPECIALLY true when Fegan reported that there were problems in the clubhouse between the manager and hitting coach and, by extension, the players, being TLR insisted on sacrificing power for contact. Did they feel like they were going to get yelled at for striking out? Were homers almost frowned upon? These guys all came up in lift-and-pull environments and now they're asked to completely change their approaches?
Point being, I'm not putting a ton of stock into this season's offensive numbers. Like the rest of this season and roster, it's been tainted by a manager who had no business managing in this league.
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Holy overreaction.
There's a ton of talent on this team. It would be beyond idiotic not to run it back with some small tweaks and a new coaching staff.
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2 hours ago, LittleHurtCG said:
The standings are showing otherwise. It was an extremely overrated and thin roster coming into the season. One doesn't need a bunch of advanced degrees from Ivy league institutions to know that sticking first basemen in the outfield is not a good idea. The 2022 White Sox were one of the worst defensive teams I've ever seen. Hard to win a division when you don't know how to field.
It was supposed to be an OF of Eloy, Luis, and AJ with Vaughn at DH. That's not an awful OF. You can criticize the decision to rely on Eloy staying healthy out there but he's signed to a sizable contract and we paid him to play the OF. Luis and Eloy's health, coupled with AJ and Engel's regressions, kind of forced our hand into having AV in the OF. The Pollock trade, looking at his L/R splits coming into this season, was a shrewd move. It didn't work out as we'd hoped, but on paper the logic behind the deal was 100% solid. Who could have predicted such unprecedented regressions from Yas and Yo (two guys I personally believe were 100% in the "f*** this s%*#" camp due to the TLR hire)?!?! We were forced to move Gavin out there as players kept getting hurt and needed a lefty stick in the lineup.
We lost an absolutely key bullpen piece when Crochet went down. Bummer, as the backup LHRP, being out a significant portion of the season sure as hell didn't help. Kelly was 100% a TLR signing and you can't convince me otherwise (same with Leury).
PECOTA set us at 94 expected wins. Vegas had our O/U set at 91.5 wins.
Thin? I'll give you that. Overrated roster? Nah, cannot grant you that. This was a team who had a manager actively working against them.
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13 hours ago, kitekrazy said:
They could have won 100 but Aug. 2021 is when they stopped playing hard or manager tries to win games.
While we see some of it on here, and especially on Twitter, it's baffling the number of people who have STILL not recognized that TLR lost this team/clubhouse last season. Players gave him a few months of a fair chance and quickly realized their manager is wholly unrelatable, ignorant of today's game, low-energy, and a narcissist. They quit on him last season and this season was just the exclamation point.
I believe it got SO bad that they didn't just quit on TLR, they quit on the franchise. I do believe there was a concerted effort to play so badly that the FO would have to dump TLR. All season we've complained about the lack of passion, stupid mistakes, poor approaches at the plate, and lack of hustle. Those are ALL things that happen when a team no longer gives a s%*# about wins or losses. We have very few impact players who aren't locked up long-term so it's not like they're playing for a contract. Pride went out the window when they felt/knew the franchise put TLR's ego above all else.
This was not a BAD roster coming into the season. Potential holes were exacerbated by injuries and poor performance but there are very few who didn't have this team winning the Central and, even in the national press, the Sox were considered WS contenders heading into Opening Day. From Rick Hahn on down to Frank Menechino on down to TA, we saw what the kids these days apparently call "quiet quitting". The, "yeah, I'll collect a paycheck but my employer is showing me no loyalty so I'm going to do the absolute bare minimum until they fire me" form of quitting.
And people will point to this homestand as proof that Cairo was no better than TLR. Bullshit. The Sox were playing pretty good ball, best ball of the season. Tip your hat to Cleveland that they kept winning. Once Sox lost that first game to CLE, the season was over. We knew it. They knew it. Everyone knew it. Did we really expect effort after that loss? I know I didn't....I haven't watched a single pitch since that game.
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Favorite Sox jersey
in Pale Hose Talk
Posted
In person, I think #5 just grabs me more than any of the other jerseys. Not so much the uniform, per se, but just as a jersey you see at games or what have you.