Arizona Fall League Preview - White Sox prospects

[BlackSox13]

Seby Zavala should be moving up the org depth chart right now. The White Sox should give him a shot to make the roster out of camp and if for some reason he doesn't make the team, he should get full time catcher reps in Charlotte. This is the type of thing that really accelerates a rebuild, finding a guy like Seby Zavala who comes out of nowhere to be a 4+ WAR player at a premium position for you, which he will be if he continues to hit the way he has for the past year and just manages to be not terrible as a catcher defensively. If he can hit like that and play good defense, he could be a future MVP candidate.

Easy peasy lemon squeezy.

 

Zavala hasn't played above Winston-Salem yet. Let's not get too aggressive.

[thxfrthmmrs]

Seby Zavala should be moving up the org depth chart right now. The White Sox should give him a shot to make the roster out of camp and if for some reason he doesn't make the team, he should get full time catcher reps in Charlotte. This is the type of thing that really accelerates a rebuild, finding a guy like Seby Zavala who comes out of nowhere to be a 4+ WAR player at a premium position for you, which he will be if he continues to hit the way he has for the past year and just manages to be not terrible as a catcher defensively. If he can hit like that and play good defense, he could be a future MVP candidate.

 

 

He was barely a top 30 guy in the org before this year, had a pretty good year in A ball. Now he should either be promoted to Charlotte next year or break camp. On top of that he could be a 4 WAR player and potential MVP candidate. Boy that escalated quickly.

[Y2Jimmy0]

Seby Zavala should be moving up the org depth chart right now. The White Sox should give him a shot to make the roster out of camp and if for some reason he doesn't make the team, he should get full time catcher reps in Charlotte. This is the type of thing that really accelerates a rebuild, finding a guy like Seby Zavala who comes out of nowhere to be a 4+ WAR player at a premium position for you, which he will be if he continues to hit the way he has for the past year and just manages to be not terrible as a catcher defensively. If he can hit like that and play good defense, he could be a future MVP candidate.

 

 

Owen?

[southsider2k5]

Seby Zavala should be moving up the org depth chart right now. The White Sox should give him a shot to make the roster out of camp and if for some reason he doesn't make the team, he should get full time catcher reps in Charlotte. This is the type of thing that really accelerates a rebuild, finding a guy like Seby Zavala who comes out of nowhere to be a 4+ WAR player at a premium position for you, which he will be if he continues to hit the way he has for the past year and just manages to be not terrible as a catcher defensively. If he can hit like that and play good defense, he could be a future MVP candidate.

 

No one is skipping AA. Let's not be crazy. Yes he had a great year, but in all seriousness, when is the last time you saw ANYONE skip, AA completely?

[credezcrew24]

No one is skipping AA. Let's not be crazy. Yes he had a great year, but in all seriousness, when is the last time you saw ANYONE skip, AA completely?

 

Chris Sale

 

Carlos Rodon

 

and there are a bunch of recent rule 5 players if you want to count those

Edited October 25, 2017 by credezcrew24

[Dam8610]

The issues with Zavala going to AA are Zack Collins (who will start at C for Birmingham next year) and he's 24, will be 25 next season. I said IF (and I recognize those are big IFs) he keeps hitting at this level, which he has hit very well, and has gotten better with each step up in competition level he's faced this year, and IF he can be a good defensive C, he could be a 4+ WAR player (see: 95th+ percentile scenario). My point is if you continue to stick Zavala behind Collins on the same roster, you'll never find out what he has to offer, because Collins will continue to be the organization's priority. There's only two directions, then, for him to go: down to Winston-Salem, where he's already proven himself, or up to Charlotte or Chicago. I'd rather see the org see if they have something in him by pushing him developmentally to get him reps than have him waste away behind Collins and wonder what could have been, especially if Collins doesn't work out.

Edited October 25, 2017 by Dam8610

[BlackSox13]

The issues with Zavala going to AA are Zack Collins (who will start at C for Birmingham next year) and he's 24, will be 25 next season. I said IF (and I recognize those are big IFs) he keeps hitting at this level, which he has hit very well, and has gotten better with each step up in competition level he's faced this year, and IF he can be a good defensive C, he could be a 4+ WAR player (see: 95th+ percentile scenario). My point is if you continue to stick Zavala behind Collins on the same roster, you'll never find out what he has to offer, because Collins will continue to be the organization's priority. There's only two directions, then, for him to go: down to Winston-Salem, where he's already proven himself, or up to Charlotte or Chicago. I'd rather see the org see if they have something in him by pushing him developmentally to get him reps than have him waste away behind Collins and wonder what could have been, especially if Collins doesn't work out.

You're creating an issue out of a non issue to support your idea. Both played together at Kanny and WS and both split time at C and DH, and pretty evenly. Worked just fine last year and there's no reason to think them being together at Birmingham won't work out fine as well.

[BlackSox13]

Chris Sale

 

Carlos Rodon

 

and there are a bunch of recent rule 5 players if you want to count those

You named two pitchers and " a bunch " of rule 5 players. Who are the bunch anyway?

 

And the point you missed is when was the last time a prospect position player jumped from A to AAA? Pitchers and position players are very different.

[southsider2k5]

You named two pitchers and " a bunch " of rule 5 players. Who are the bunch anyway?

 

And the point you missed is when was the last time a prospect position player jumped from A to AAA? Pitchers and position players are very different.

 

Let me put it this way. if Eloy Jimenez is playing at AA, you damned well bet that Seby Zavala is going to be playing at AA.

[Dam8610]

You're creating an issue out of a non issue to support your idea. Both played together at Kanny and WS and both split time at C and DH, and pretty evenly. Worked just fine last year and there's no reason to think them being together at Birmingham won't work out fine as well.

 

I disagree. First, Collins repeated WS to open the year while Zavala repeated Kanny. They were not both on the WS roster for very long, as shortly after Zavala's promotion to WS, Collins received a promotion to Birmingham. The org seems to be interested in seeing if they have something in Zavala as evidenced by his AFL assignment, and Zavala has responded very well in a league made up mostly of AA and AAA talent after doing very well all season. He's also 24, and will be 25 by the end of next season. I think a platoon such as the one you contemplate would stunt the development of both players, especially defensively, and I think with Zavala's age, it might be worth testing him to see if he can handle it. Worst case scenario is he busts, and I doubt prior to last season that they had any plans for Zavala considering they started him at Kanny at age 23.

 

Let me put it this way. if Eloy Jimenez is playing at AA, you damned well bet that Seby Zavala is going to be playing at AA.

 

Why is his pace dictated by Eloy's pace? Eloy is 3+ years younger. I also think Eloy could probably start at AAA next year, but considering how valuable of a piece he is considered to be to this rebuild, he likely won't. Zavala's situation is entirely different, the White Sox are (or at least appear to be) trying to find out if they have something in him, and I don't think platooning him with Collins is the best way to find that out, or help the development of either player.

[southsider2k5]

I disagree. First, Collins repeated WS to open the year while Zavala repeated Kanny. They were not both on the WS roster for very long, as shortly after Zavala's promotion to WS, Collins received a promotion to Birmingham. The org seems to be interested in seeing if they have something in Zavala as evidenced by his AFL assignment, and Zavala has responded very well in a league made up mostly of AA and AAA talent after doing very well all season. He's also 24, and will be 25 by the end of next season. I think a platoon such as the one you contemplate would stunt the development of both players, especially defensively, and I think with Zavala's age, it might be worth testing him to see if he can handle it. Worst case scenario is he busts, and I doubt prior to last season that they had any plans for Zavala considering they started him at Kanny at age 23.

 

 

 

Why is his pace dictated by Eloy's pace? Eloy is 3+ years younger. I also think Eloy could probably start at AAA next year, but considering how valuable of a piece he is considered to be to this rebuild, he likely won't. Zavala's situation is entirely different, the White Sox are (or at least appear to be) trying to find out if they have something in him, and I don't think platooning him with Collins is the best way to find that out, or help the development of either player.

 

It is entirely different. He is vastly inferior to Jimenez.

[Dam8610]

It is entirely different. He is vastly inferior to Jimenez.

 

No one would dispute that, but I fail to see the point you're trying to make.

[BlackSox13]

I disagree. First, Collins repeated WS to open the year while Zavala repeated Kanny. They were not both on the WS roster for very long, as shortly after Zavala's promotion to WS, Collins received a promotion to Birmingham. The org seems to be interested in seeing if they have something in Zavala as evidenced by his AFL assignment, and Zavala has responded very well in a league made up mostly of AA and AAA talent after doing very well all season. He's also 24, and will be 25 by the end of next season. I think a platoon such as the one you contemplate would stunt the development of both players, especially defensively, and I think with Zavala's age, it might be worth testing him to see if he can handle it. Worst case scenario is he busts, and I doubt prior to last season that they had any plans for Zavala considering they started him at Kanny at age 23.

 

 

 

Why is his pace dictated by Eloy's pace? Eloy is 3+ years younger. I also think Eloy could probably start at AAA next year, but considering how valuable of a piece he is considered to be to this rebuild, he likely won't. Zavala's situation is entirely different, the White Sox are (or at least appear to be) trying to find out if they have something in him, and I don't think platooning him with Collins is the best way to find that out, or help the development of either player.

Zavala was promoted to WS June 26th and Collins promoted from WS to Birmingham August 15th which means they played together on the same roster without issue, for a month and a half. But somehow you think this will be a problem but forcing a catcher to jump from A to AAA is not? Also, age is irrelevant with catchers since they are known to take longer to develop.

 

The point about Eloy is that if he, a very highly rated prospect, is not jumping from A to AAA then there's no chance a lesser prospect like Zavala, and a catcher at that, is going to make that jump. Dare I say, forcing a catcher to make that jump is more detrimental to their development than sharing time with another catcher. It's just a bad idea, plain and simple.

[southsider2k5]

No one would dispute that, but I fail to see the point you're trying to make.

 

Seby Zavala isn't skipping double A.

[credezcrew24]

You named two pitchers and " a bunch " of rule 5 players. Who are the bunch anyway?

 

And the point you missed is when was the last time a prospect position player jumped from A to AAA? Pitchers and position players are very different.

 

Sorry man but you missed the point. The poster I was responding to clearly emphasized the word "ANYONE" in his post.

 

as for the rule 5 players just this year there is

 

Miguel Díaz

Luis Torrens

Allen Córdoba

Kevin Gadea

[NorthSideSox72]

I am, and have been since his first pro looks, one of the biggest Zavala backers out there. Certainly I was that guy among the FutureSox crowd. I think he's got an MLB future, likely as a backup.

 

And I am saying, skipping AA to go to AAA, let alone MLB, is just a ridiculous idea. The guy played half a season in High A. Let him do AA this year, and he may even have to start the year back in A+ for a bit so he and Collins can get full time play. I'd say mid-late 2019 is a best case target for Zavala reaching the majors.

 

[OmarComing25]

Zavala’s first 6 games in the AFL:

 

.500/.585/.778 with 2 2B 1 HR and 4 BB to 3 K

 

Thrown out 3 of 6 baserunners.

 

Crushed the HR 460 feet to center today, 113 mph exit velocity

Edited October 26, 2017 by OmarComing25

[BlackSox13]

Sorry man but you missed the point. The poster I was responding to clearly emphasized the word "ANYONE" in his post.

 

as for the rule 5 players just this year there is

 

Miguel Díaz

Luis Torrens

Allen Córdoba

Kevin Gadea

I can't speak for that poster but by anyone I think they meant position players and non-rule 5 draft players but I see what you meant in your reply now.. Rule fives are a bad example since they must make the team out of ST and remain on it through the season. Sox did it with Dylan Covey.

 

 

[thxfrthmmrs]

The issues with Zavala going to AA are Zack Collins (who will start at C for Birmingham next year) and he's 24, will be 25 next season. I said IF (and I recognize those are big IFs) he keeps hitting at this level, which he has hit very well, and has gotten better with each step up in competition level he's faced this year, and IF he can be a good defensive C, he could be a 4+ WAR player (see: 95th+ percentile scenario). My point is if you continue to stick Zavala behind Collins on the same roster, you'll never find out what he has to offer, because Collins will continue to be the organization's priority. There's only two directions, then, for him to go: down to Winston-Salem, where he's already proven himself, or up to Charlotte or Chicago. I'd rather see the org see if they have something in him by pushing him developmentally to get him reps than have him waste away behind Collins and wonder what could have been, especially if Collins doesn't work out.

 

There is probably a less than 1% chance becomes Zavala becomes a 4+ WAR player, let alone an MVP candidate. Heck I think less than 1% is being generous. That's like saying IF James Shields bounces back with a Cy Young caliber season we might compete for the division. There is almost no chance of that happening, no need to get a hard-on by playing the IF game.

 

You're creating an issue out of a non issue to support your idea.

 

Right on. There is no reason that you can't have 2 starting caliber catcher on the same roster for a couple months until they prove they are ready for promotion. No need to rush here.

[BlackSox13]

Right on. There is no reason that you can't have 2 starting caliber catcher on the same roster for a couple months until they prove they are ready for promotion. No need to rush here.

Exactly. I could see a potential issue if there was no DH in the batting order, but there is so I really see no reason to force either catcher. IMHO, Zavala and Collins have a future in the White Sox lineup and think having the DH in the minors and the AL could save both players knees. Could be a big help on the next post season Sox team.

[oldsox]

You named two pitchers and " a bunch " of rule 5 players. Who are the bunch anyway?

 

And the point you missed is when was the last time a prospect position player jumped from A to AAA? Pitchers and position players are very different.

Pujols? He went from A to the Bigs.

Edited October 27, 2017 by oldsox

[NorthSideSox72]

Pujols? He went from A to the Bigs.

Pete Incavigila famously went from the draft straight to the majors in 85/86.

 

Pretty sure Seby Zavala is neither Pujols or Incaviglia.

 

[bmags]

Pete Incavigila famously went from the draft straight to the majors in 85/86.

 

Pretty sure Seby Zavala is neither Pujols or Incaviglia.

 

Olerud was the one I remembered.

 

One I didnt? Mike Leake

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_baseb...League_Baseball

[southsider2k5]

No one is skipping AA. Let's not be crazy. Yes he had a great year, but in all seriousness, when is the last time you saw ANYONE skip, AA completely?

 

Going back here, while it didn't say it expressly, the context of the conversation had exclusively dealt with skipping from A ball to AAA ball as a position player. That was obviously the conversation going on here so no I wasn't think of pitchers, Rule 5 draft, or players making the team straight out of A ball in spring training. I was very clearly talking about position players skipping A ball to go to AAA as is being proposed here for Seby Zavala.

 

Going back to the Eloy Jimenez conversation to make the point deeper, Eloy it a WAY more advanced hitter, how is also playing one of the easiest positions on the baseball field in LF, yet he was sent to Birmingham and not Charlotte. If any hitter in our system would have skipped AA it would have been him. When you look at the fact that Zavala isn't near the hitter than Jimenez is, AND he is playing the absolutely hardest defensive position to learn in all of baseball, there is an absolutely zero chance that Zavala doesn't either open the season at High A or AA in 2018 if he is a White Sox at that point in time.

 

It just isn't going to happen, and I would bet greg's house on it.

[BamaDoc]

Could one argue that if Zavala and Collins both start in Birmingham, they could share catching and be the primary dh on the other night. They both get full bat development. One other thing might be on the day a player is going to dh, you could do extensive defensive drill work as you know he won't be catching. I could see that defensive work being useful and normally not able to be done due to wearing out the player. If after 6 weeks if one is clearly ready to move up, as the job share isn't working or has served its purpose, then you could move the most deserving up. It may also allow your minor league catching guru/rover to work with the two biggest catching prospects without having to travel.

Edited October 27, 2017 by BamaDoc