JuliusO1274 Posted April 1, 2019 Share Posted April 1, 2019 2 hours ago, Justinsettle said: I’m glad he got paid but he should have started the year in AAA. Had a bad spring training and looks completely over matched thus far. He already showed he can handle AAA. The only way for him to get better now is to face major league pitching. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GenericUserName Posted April 2, 2019 Share Posted April 2, 2019 38 minutes ago, JuliusO1274 said: He already showed he can handle AAA. The only way for him to get better now is to face major league pitching. To get better yes, but right now he looks like something is off. In spring training against similar competition to that which he killed in AAA last year he struggled. After the extension he chalked it up to putting too much pressure on himself, and that might still be the case, but it could also be that something is messed up in his swing or approach right now which would be easier to sort out in the minors. Its likely he will figure whatever is wrong out without the need to send him down, but some time in Charlotte to start the year may have been helpful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panerista Posted April 2, 2019 Share Posted April 2, 2019 46 minutes ago, JuliusO1274 said: He already showed he can handle AAA. The only way for him to get better now is to face major league pitching. This conversation appears to be going like the Moncada discussion last year. At some point, they have to learn in the major leagues against major league pitching. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jose Abreu Posted April 2, 2019 Author Share Posted April 2, 2019 4 minutes ago, GenericUserName said: To get better yes, but right now he looks like something is off. In spring training against similar competition to that which he killed in AAA last year he struggled. After the extension he chalked it up to putting too much pressure on himself, and that might still be the case, but it could also be that something is messed up in his swing or approach right now which would be easier to sort out in the minors. Its likely he will figure whatever is wrong out without the need to send him down, but some time in Charlotte to start the year may have been helpful. 4 games is not nearly enough time to make these conclusions. I feel ridiculous for even needing to type that. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GenericUserName Posted April 2, 2019 Share Posted April 2, 2019 11 minutes ago, Jose Abreu said: 4 games is not nearly enough time to make these conclusions. I feel ridiculous for even needing to type that. 4 games, spring training, and common sense. No way did he have this much trouble last year with something as simple as sliders down and away or every scout and coach would have been talking about it and exploiting it. That points to something being different this year as opposed to last. When he doesn't have a good spring and then you put the pressure of the new contract and starting opening day on his shoulders, it was likely to only exacerbate the issue. With that in mind, it might not have been a bad idea to start him in the minors until he figured it out and then brought him up. With the extension already signed there would have been no worries about complaints of service time manipulation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panerista Posted April 2, 2019 Share Posted April 2, 2019 4 minutes ago, GenericUserName said: 4 games, spring training, and common sense. No way did he have this much trouble last year with something as simple as sliders down and away or every scout and coach would have been talking about it and exploiting it. That points to something being different this year as opposed to last. When he doesn't have a good spring and then you put the pressure of the new contract and starting opening day on his shoulders, it was likely to only exacerbate the issue. With that in mind, it might not have been a bad idea to start him in the minors until he figured it out and then brought him up. With the extension already signed there would have been no worries about complaints of service time manipulation. No, common sense says: Eloy Jimenez has done all he can in the minors Spring training is practice games 4 games is 2.5% of the season Everything else is a fabrication on your part. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jose Abreu Posted April 2, 2019 Author Share Posted April 2, 2019 8 minutes ago, GenericUserName said: 4 games, spring training, and common sense. No way did he have this much trouble last year with something as simple as sliders down and away or every scout and coach would have been talking about it and exploiting it. That points to something being different this year as opposed to last. When he doesn't have a good spring and then you put the pressure of the new contract and starting opening day on his shoulders, it was likely to only exacerbate the issue. With that in mind, it might not have been a bad idea to start him in the minors until he figured it out and then brought him up. With the extension already signed there would have been no worries about complaints of service time manipulation. No, it's not "common sense" to use Spring Training stats and a 4 game sample size of someone's approach to claim that he isn't MLB ready. You act as if he's swinging and missing at every pitch. He's making some good contact and just isn't finding holes. He'll be fine 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panerista Posted April 2, 2019 Share Posted April 2, 2019 1 minute ago, Jose Abreu said: No, it's not "common sense" to use Spring Training stats and a 4 game sample size of someone's approach to claim that he isn't MLB ready. You act as if he's swinging and missing at every pitch. He's making some good contact and just isn't finding holes. He'll be fine Right. I wonder what @GenericUserName expects more minor league at bats to achieve. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted April 2, 2019 Share Posted April 2, 2019 Seriously, Eloy needs to be here. Don't overreact to 4 games. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panerista Posted April 2, 2019 Share Posted April 2, 2019 3 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said: Seriously, Eloy needs to be here. Don't overreact to 4 games. Man, I'm really hoping this is a turnaround for Yoan. But yeah, four games. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GenericUserName Posted April 2, 2019 Share Posted April 2, 2019 2 minutes ago, AustinIllini said: No, common sense says: Eloy Jimenez has done all he can in the minors Spring training is practice games 4 games is 2.5% of the season Everything else is a fabrication on your part. What is fabrication? Me saying he doesn't normally have a whole in his swing? Or that there wouldn't be service time complaints because that was specifically stated as a part of the agreement with the new contract? Nothing you said discounts my point. Something is wrong right now and starting him out in the minors to work on it (or even just take the pressure off of him) could have been beneficial. Are you going to argue that it definitely would not have been beneficial? That working things out at lower levels isn't a technique used by every major league team. 1 minute ago, Jose Abreu said: No, it's not "common sense" to use Spring Training stats and a 4 game sample size of someone's approach to claim that he isn't MLB ready. You act as if he's swinging and missing at every pitch. He's making some good contact and just isn't finding holes. He'll be fine I'm not saying he isn't MLB ready. Check my post, literally did not say he isn't ready. He has done everything we could have wanted at the minor league level. In fact, he was probably ready by the later part of last season. But so far this season something is off. It could be a minor part of his swing or set up that we haven't noticed yet (god knows I don't trust Steverson to help at all) which could be an easy fix, but it might have been nice to let him work through that without the added pressure of his major league debut. 5 minutes ago, AustinIllini said: Right. I wonder what @GenericUserName expects more minor league at bats to achieve. The same thing more ML bats would achieve, which is to say a solution to whatever is wrong right not, but in a potentially more effective environment because there would be less pressure to perform. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panerista Posted April 2, 2019 Share Posted April 2, 2019 1 minute ago, GenericUserName said: What is fabrication? Me saying he doesn't normally have a whole in his swing? Or that there wouldn't be service time complaints because that was specifically stated as a part of the agreement with the new contract? Nothing you said discounts my point. Something is wrong right now and starting him out in the minors to work on it (or even just take the pressure off of him) could have been beneficial. Are you going to argue that it definitely would not have been beneficial? That working things out at lower levels isn't a technique used by every major league team. Your argument melts when you include the most important factor: sample size. The rest is just nonsense arguing. You made your point, but the argument is decided: It's too early to tell anything about Eloy Jimenez. You cannot win this argument. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GenericUserName Posted April 2, 2019 Share Posted April 2, 2019 1 minute ago, Tony said: Maybe him being “off” is facing Major League pitching....just an idea. Maybe, but the way the specific thing of sliders down and away is being used to attack him it made me think something was up. And then if you check his BRef page they have spring training stats with an opponent quality index. For him, the opponent quality was on average somewhere between AA and AAA. So while his numbers in spring training weren't that bad, they were much lower than what he did against competition of that level the previous season, especially in terms of his strikeout rate. That leads me to believe something is off this year as compared to last year. 2 minutes ago, AustinIllini said: Your argument melts when you include the most important factor: sample size. The rest is just nonsense arguing. You made your point, but the argument is decided: It's too early to tell anything about Eloy Jimenez. You cannot win this argument. You seem to think I am basing this solely on the first few games even though I have clearly stated otherwise. If you can't follow that simple line of reasoning I don't think this was ever really an argument in the first place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panerista Posted April 2, 2019 Share Posted April 2, 2019 (edited) 8 minutes ago, GenericUserName said: You seem to think I am basing this solely on the first few games even though I have clearly stated otherwise. If you can't follow that simple line of reasoning I don't think this was ever really an argument in the first place. The only possible relevant sample size in your house of cards argument is 4 games. We can come back to this in five months Edited April 2, 2019 by AustinIllini Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GenericUserName Posted April 2, 2019 Share Posted April 2, 2019 1 minute ago, AustinIllini said: The only possible relevant sample size in your house of cards argument is 4 games. We can come back to this in five months This would work a lot better if you could follow anything I was saying. I literally said more ML at bats will make him figure it out eventually. I did not say that if he is not sent down he will bust like I assume you think I am saying. My argument is that starting in the minors could have been beneficial and potentially have had him figure it out quicker. The better time frame for this argument would be about another week or two, not five months. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kitekrazy Posted April 2, 2019 Share Posted April 2, 2019 1 hour ago, AustinIllini said: This conversation appears to be going like the Moncada discussion last year. At some point, they have to learn in the major leagues against major league pitching. Nope. You got it all wrong. Our 1st year rookies are suppose to put up Mike Trout numbers or they are busts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Parkman Posted April 2, 2019 Share Posted April 2, 2019 9 minutes ago, kitekrazy said: Nope. You got it all wrong. Our 1st year rookies are suppose to put up Mike Trout numbers or they are busts. Yup. This seems to be the expectation. 2018: blah blah Moncada is a bust blah blah blah 2019: blah blah Eloy is a bust blah blah blah Sometimes it doesn't click for players right away. The history of baseball is littered with HOF players who struggled until age 25-26. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Look at Ray Ray Run Posted April 2, 2019 Share Posted April 2, 2019 17 minutes ago, kitekrazy said: Nope. You got it all wrong. Our 1st year rookies are suppose to put up Mike Trout numbers or they are busts. I know this has been said ad nauseam but Trout had a 672 ops his first year in like 170 ABs 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kitekrazy Posted April 2, 2019 Share Posted April 2, 2019 Just now, Look at Ray Ray Run said: I know this has been said ad nauseam but Trout had a 672 ops his first year in like 170 ABs 6 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said: Yup. This seems to be the expectation. 2018: blah blah Moncada is a bust blah blah blah 2019: blah blah Eloy is a bust blah blah blah Sometimes it doesn't click for players right away. The history of baseball is littered with HOF players who struggled until age 25-26. Some people think going from the minors to MLB works like college to the NFL,NBA. I always wondered what the average time spent in the minors was in different eras or decades. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackSox13 Posted April 2, 2019 Share Posted April 2, 2019 It's obvious Eloy is a bust .Hahn should trade him for Matt Davidson. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SonofaRoache Posted April 2, 2019 Share Posted April 2, 2019 28 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said: Yup. This seems to be the expectation. 2018: blah blah Moncada is a bust blah blah blah 2019: blah blah Eloy is a bust blah blah blah Sometimes it doesn't click for players right away. The history of baseball is littered with HOF players who struggled until age 25-26. Rebuild now ends in 2023? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jose Abreu Posted April 2, 2019 Author Share Posted April 2, 2019 34 minutes ago, BlackSox13 said: It's obvious Eloy is a bust .Hahn should trade him for Matt Davidson. But what about Kevan Smith? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackSox13 Posted April 2, 2019 Share Posted April 2, 2019 11 hours ago, Jose Abreu said: But what about Kevan Smith? Forgot about Smith. Let's trade Madrigal for Smith. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted April 2, 2019 Share Posted April 2, 2019 Guys I think Eloy is gonna be good. Gonna take the bold stance now while it’s contrarian. Would like all credit. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mqr Posted April 2, 2019 Share Posted April 2, 2019 Eloy is a bust and we never have to worry about Moncada again. Win some, lose some Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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