Heyman: Sox interested in someone on some team. Nightengale: *nods*

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

1 hour ago, 2Deep said:

I'm taking the hold up is Escobar's injury???.

 

Not really. He's ok. It's still a long way from the TDL . I'm sure the D'backs will get other offers for him . They will wait to see who offers what.

[greg775]

I would love for the Sox to shock and win a trade big. Acquire some high paid stud from a team looking to dump salary. Why not us?

[YouCanPutItOnTheBoardYES!]

If Soria is the “big” reliever acquisition I will be annoyed. He isn’t that good anymore.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

20 minutes ago, greg775 said:

I would love for the Sox to shock and win a trade big. Acquire some high paid stud from a team looking to dump salary. Why not us?

Why not us ? Not the Sox (Reinsdorfs) MO. We'll be lucky to add an extra $10M for the rest of the year on any pieces we trade for combined. That's another reason why Hahn said they will wait and assess. It's wise to do that but also the longer you wait the cheaper the player becomes.  Paying the prorated rate of a players salary for 2 months is less than the prorated rate for 3 months.

Edited June 22, 2021 by CaliSoxFanViaSWside

[hi8is]

2 hours ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

I am both shocked and dismayed. I think it's the 1st time in the history of my many years on Soxtalk that someone has actually said this to me. For that you get an emoji of love !

Ah come on - I’m sure in the past 18 years or whatever it’s been we’ve come to see eye to eye on many occasions. 😆

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

11 hours ago, hi8is said:

Ah come on - I’m sure in the past 18 years or whatever it’s been we’ve come to see eye to eye on many occasions. 😆

I meant everyone on Soxtalk not just you. I never see anyone say OK I changed my mind you convinced me with your super longs posts about any particular subject. Early in the year I suggested Nick Williams be given a chance in  like a couple of starts over Vaughn. Didn't even suggest he play a lot but just given a chance. I was lambasted in every way possible.  Where are all those people now when Vaughn has a wRC+ of 38 against RHP ?

Even now people still want Vaughn to play every day. And every time I bring it up all I get is "not this again" !  and laugh emoji's as if I have no right to bring up how so many wanted to humiliate me for having the gall to suggest Vaughn might not be all that against RHP so early in the season when Vaughn fever was at an All-time high. Now there is no legitimate argument to play Vaughn against RHP and many more posters here have come to realize that but people still want to be petty about it. It takes a big man to say what you said when the internet emboldens people to be dicks as much as they want to be.

I want to win the World Series and I want the best players possible to play as much as possible against RHP and LHP. Vaughn might be the best player on the Sox against LHP but against RHP for now he's among the worst.

Edited June 22, 2021 by CaliSoxFanViaSWside

[greg775]

34 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

I meant everyone on Soxtalk not just you. I never see anyone say OK I changed my mind you convinced me with your super longs posts about any particular subject. Early in the year I suggested Nick Williams be given a chance in  like a couple of starts over Vaughn. Didn't even suggest he play a lot but just given a chance. I was lambasted in every way possible.  Where are all those people now when Vaughn has a wRC+ of 38 against RHP ? Even now people still want Vaughn to play every day. And every time I bring it up all I hear is "not this again" ! as if I have no right to bring up how so many wanted to humiliate me for having the gall to suggest Vaughn might not be all that against RHP so early in the season when Vaughn fever was at an All-time high.

I want to win the World Series and I want the best players possible to play as much as possible against RHP and LHP. Vaughn might be the best player on the Sox against LHP but against RHP for now he's among the worst.

So many Sox hitters can't handle the slider. But like somebody said offense is down. It's a baseball problem caused by modern baseball.

[Dick Allen]

1 hour ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

Not really. He's ok. It's still a long way from the TDL . I'm sure the D'backs will get other offers for him . They will wait to see who offers what.

I don't know about that. They aren't going to get much for him anyway and waiting until the deadline costs them more than $1 million.  I suspect the Sox want them to eat some money.

[Dominikk85]

9 hours ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

I meant everyone on Soxtalk not just you. I never see anyone say OK I changed my mind you convinced me with your super longs posts about any particular subject. Early in the year I suggested Nick Williams be given a chance in  like a couple of starts over Vaughn. Didn't even suggest he play a lot but just given a chance. I was lambasted in every way possible.  Where are all those people now when Vaughn has a wRC+ of 38 against RHP ? Even now people still want Vaughn to play every day. And every time I bring it up all I hear is "not this again" ! as if I have no right to bring up how so many wanted to humiliate me for having the gall to suggest Vaughn might not be all that against RHP so early in the season when Vaughn fever was at an All-time high.

I want to win the World Series and I want the best players possible to play as much as possible against RHP and LHP. Vaughn might be the best player on the Sox against LHP but against RHP for now he's among the worst.

 

Vaughn is as bad as it gets against RHP but at least there is upside because he is considered one of the most talented hitting prospects. With leury, nick Williams, Hamilton etc there is just no upside, a 90 wrc+ probably is the high end and more likely 70-80.

With Vaughn he could figure it out and be decent against RHP and spectacular against LHP. 

Also he needs at bats and is too young and talented to be a platoon, either you play him at least 5 times a week or you send him down. 

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

1 hour ago, Dominikk85 said:

 

Vaughn is as bad as it gets against RHP but at least there is upside because he is considered one of the most talented hitting prospects. With leury, nick Williams, Hamilton etc there is just no upside, a 90 wrc+ probably is the high end and more likely 70-80.

With Vaughn he could figure it out and be decent against RHP and spectacular against LHP. 

Also he needs at bats and is too young and talented to be a platoon, either you play him at least 5 times a week or you send him down. 

I know all that but so what ? Don't you understand that each victory THIS SEASON could be the key to ending up with the best record in baseball or in the AL ? That means home field advantage in the playoffs and a possible win in the World Series. Now isn't the time to play him every day  . He'll remain on the team . He'll get plenty of AB's against RHP still because he has all season even though he's a total liability when playing against them offensively and defensively. He'll get plenty of AB's against RH next year too. He isn't going anywhere.

Treat him just like you would any other guy who sucks at the moment. Mercedes, Leury, Hamilton, Mendick whoever . Give Engel, Goodwin, and Lamb their shots now because  Andrew Vaughn's development is secondary to winning  and right now they do not stroll in the park hand in hand if your goal is the World Series. It's amazing to me when people say Lamb is a liability in the OF to say he doesn't deserve more playing time when there is more evidence piling up every day that Vaughn is also a liability in the OF and when you aren't hitting you had better play some great defense or you are pretty useless. That describes Vaughn now playing left field against RHP. Engel Goodwin and Lamb have combined for 9 HR's in the small amount of AB's they have had so far, not all against RHP but 7 of them have . I'll take my chance with that and the much better defense from Engel and Goodwin in LF.

Edited June 22, 2021 by CaliSoxFanViaSWside

[Balta1701]

36 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

I know all that but so what ? Don't you understand that each victory THIS SEASON could be the key to ending up with the best record in baseball or in the AL ? That means home field advantage in the playoffs and a possible win in the World Series. Now isn't the time to play him every day  . He'll remain on the team . He'll get plenty of AB's against RHP still because he has all season even though he's a total liability when playing against them offensively and defensively. He'll get plenty of AB's against RH next year too. He isn't going anywhere.

Treat him just like you would any other guy who sucks at the moment. Mercedes, Leury, Hamilton, Mendick whoever . Give Engel, Goodwin, and Lamb their shots now because  Andrew Vaughn's development is secondary to winning  and right now they do not stroll in the park hand in hand if your goal is the World Series. It's amazing to me when people say Lamb is a liability in the OF to say he doesn't deserve more playing time when there is more evidence piling up every day that Vaughn is also a liability in the OF and when you aren't hitting you had better play some great defense or you are pretty useless. That describes Vaughn now playing left field against RHP. Engel Goodwin and Lamb have combined for 9 HR's in the small amount of AB's they have had so far, not all against RHP but 7 of them have . I'll take my chance with that and the much better defense from Engel and Goodwin in LF.

Well now without Engel, are you giving Gonzalez at bats over Vaughn?

[Bob Sacamano]

9 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

Well now without Engel, are you giving Gonzalez at bats over Vaughn?

He's left-handed so the answer is probably yes even though he was hitting under .200 at Triple-A.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

19 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

Well now without Engel, are you giving Gonzalez at bats over Vaughn?

Now we have better options in Goodwin and Lamb. Early in the season there were just as many DFA posts about him as there were against Williams. What did Williams get, 10 AB's, before they DFA'd him ? Luckily that didn't happen with Lamb  and later the Sox picked up Goodwin.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

14 minutes ago, manbearpuig said:

He's left-handed so the answer is probably yes even though he was hitting under .200 at Triple-A.

Nah it's no. Sox didn't have Goodwin early in the season and didn't yet consider Lamb in the OF , so I'll stick to Goodwin and Lamb getting AB's over Vaughn against RHP

[Bob Sacamano]

3 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

Nah it's no. Sox didn't have Goodwin early in the season and didn't yet consider Lamb in the OF , so I'll stick to Goodwin and Lamb getting AB's over Vaughn against RHP

Fortunately, there is room for them and Vaughn against righties as Yermin is just unplayable now. Vaughn has more upside and should be getting near every day at bats and can actually play a position. I would just hit him low against righties.

Edited June 22, 2021 by manbearpuig

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

2 hours ago, Dominikk85 said:

 

Vaughn is as bad as it gets against RHP but at least there is upside because he is considered one of the most talented hitting prospects. With leury, nick Williams, Hamilton etc there is just no upside, a 90 wrc+ probably is the high end and more likely 70-80.

With Vaughn he could figure it out and be decent against RHP and spectacular against LHP. 

Also he needs at bats and is too young and talented to be a platoon, either you play him at least 5 times a week or you send him down. 

Still amazed when there's Home Field advantage and a possible World Series on the line to see someone say Vaughn is as bad as it gets but still play him against RHP as if Vaughn is more important than that.

[ChiSox59]

23 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

Still amazed when there's Home Field advantage and a possible World Series on the line to see someone say Vaughn is as bad as it gets but still play him against RHP as if Vaughn is more important than that.

I'd say Vaughn developing against RHP is right up there in terms of long-term importance for this club.  Plus, with the current state of this OF, we're a LONG WAY away from Vaughn not being one of the best 2 options in the OF corners. 

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

36 minutes ago, manbearpuig said:

Fortunately, there is room for them and Vaughn against righties as Yermin is just unplayable now. Vaughn has more upside and should be getting near every day at bats and can actually play a position. I would just hit him low against righties.

I can agree with this with Engel injured now.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

15 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said:

I'd say Vaughn developing against RHP is right up there in terms of long-term importance for this club.  Plus, with the current state of this OF, we're a LONG WAY away from Vaughn not being one of the best 2 options in the OF corners. 

Long term yes I'd never argue against that. Also with the current state of the OF you have to keep Vaughn in the OF but I'm also not going to want to decrease Goodwin, Leury and Lambs playing time either when home field advantage is so important to the present . Plenty of room now in the OF and DH for all to get significant AB' against RHP.

Edited June 22, 2021 by CaliSoxFanViaSWside

[ChiSox59]

6 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

Long term yes I'd never argue against that. Also with the current state of the OF you have to keep Vaughn in the OF but I'm also not going to want to decrease Goodwin, Leury and Lambs playing time either when home field advantage is so important to the present . Plenty of room now in the OF and DH for all to get significant AB' against RHP.

I am never taking at bats away from Vaughn for the likes at Good, Leury or Lamb.  Ever.  

[runtheballdown]

I figured early in the season that after Eloy and robert went down that just wait until these cats are back but now Engle is down again and midrigal is gone. It’s just a matter of time until the pitchers need a break so we need hitters now.

hahn needs to bring in players ASAP. Either from AAA or trade. Do something Rick.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

11 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said:

I am never taking at bats away from Vaughn for the likes at Good, Leury or Lamb.  Ever.  

Ok so ignore the putrid hitting stats all you want and lack of defense or speed. Fine by me. Hope you are happy when Vaughn becomes a great player at 1st base and the Sox don't win any World Series during the supposed decade long window.

Our differences cannot be settled now.

Edited June 22, 2021 by CaliSoxFanViaSWside

[South Side Hit Men]

2 minutes ago, runtheballdown said:

I figured early in the season that after Eloy and robert went down that just wait until these cats are back but now Engle is down again and midrigal is gone. It’s just a matter of time until the pitchers need a break so we need hitters now.

hahn needs to bring in players ASAP. Either from AAA or trade. Do something Rick.

 

 

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

3 minutes ago, South Side Hit Men said:

 

 

Our team is on the IL.

[Two-Gun Pete]

14 hours ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

And trust me I agree with almost everything you said about Vaughn except for sending him down. He's just too good against LHP to send him down. I want every advantage the Sox can get against LHP too because the Sox lost a big contributor against RHP in Mercedes because he is totally unreliable now.

 

I think this lineup can manage against LHP [i.e. the small ~25-ish% of MLB pitchers] without Vaughn. Against the MAJORITY ~75-ish% RHP, he's fucking killing this team. And with every injury, he's killing the team more. I'd take my chances with other players NOW, in the hope that he can go to Charlotte and un-fuck his swing in time to help when rosters expand this fall.

24 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said:

I am never taking at bats away from Vaughn for the likes at Good, Leury or Lamb.  Ever.  

Vaughns Splits Looking at this, he's not only taking a giant shit on this lineup vs. RHP, Andrew Vaughn is getting worse at hitting as this season has gone on:

March/April: wrc+ 110

May: wrc+ 102

June: wrc+ 80

 

And once again, his wrc+ vs RHP is a shitty 38. He is ACTIVELY hurting this lineup. He's getting BURIED at the plate, while wasting his controllable years. IDGAF how good he will do "someday." This is a WIN NOW season, and with every injury, every guy in the active roster has to pull MORE weight, not less. MLB SPs have him figured out, and he's not learning anything here. There is no shame in admitting that this team asked him to do the impossible. His day will come soon enough, but it ain't today.

 

Vaughn needs to go down, so that he can stop hurting this team, AND maybe he can get his shit sorted in time to come back up to help this team. RIGHT NOW, Goodwin, Leury, and Lamb are all better choices than Vaughn is right now, at least vs RHP. Platooning him isn't an answer, and neither is letting him continue to circle the drain while this team struggles. 

Edited June 22, 2021 by Two-Gun Pete