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Mariners Sell Graveman to Astros for Toro, Others


iWiN4PreP
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Mariners get:

Abraham Toro
Joe Smith

 

Astros get:

Kendall Graveman
Rafeal Montero

 

Graveman the prize here, maybe the Mariners feel they have something with Toro? More control?

Graveman IMO was the best RP get on the market for a reasonable cost. Too bad.

What do you think?

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Reports that the Mariner's Clubhouse is NOT happy with this.

IDK, no one is talking about what they got. I know Toro is young and probably controlled. I've picked him up in a number of Dynasty leagues, so I have interest in him... but I don't think he's that special and I don't really know where they are going to play him?

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1 minute ago, iWiN4PreP said:

Reports that the Mariner's Clubhouse is NOT happy with this.

IDK, no one is talking about what they got. I know Toro is young and probably controlled. I've picked him up in a number of Dynasty leagues, so I have interest in him... but I don't think he's that special and I don't really know where they are going to play him?

Toro is nothing special, but then again Graveman is a rental. Still, this move is completely tone deaf by Dipoto. 

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Probably scouted Toro when they played us. He killed us, but hasn’t done much against others. Clearly they are ready to move on from Seager, but to trade your closer for his replacement after he just beat your division rival with a homer?! Well, Mariners fans will not be pleased.

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4 hours ago, Timmy U said:

Probably scouted Toro when they played us. He killed us, but hasn’t done much against others. Clearly they are ready to move on from Seager, but to trade your closer for his replacement after he just beat your division rival with a homer?! Well, Mariners fans will not be pleased.

I wanted Graveman but with the start the Mariners had after the All Star game I didn't think he'd be available.

It's the kind of move that the players and fans never want to see but realistically what are the Mariners chances of winning the World Series or even making it to the ALCS with Graveman ? DiPoto saw the market for good relievers and he got a good young 3rd baseman with 4 years left before he reaches free agency.

They did also get Tyler Anderson from the Pirates after the Phillies trade for him fell through.

Guess we have to wait a few days to see what else the Mariners do.

Edited by CaliSoxFanViaSWside
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1 hour ago, maloney.adam said:

 

They have been arguably the worst Big 4 North American sports franchise since their inception in the 70s.  You just can't make this trade.  It's similar to the White Sox' White Flag trade optically.

Sounds like the clubhouse is shell shocked and the Mariners are getting ass whooped by the Stros tonight.  They aren't a good team, they have a -49 differential and one of the worst offenses in MLB -- but you just can't make this trade.

The long time critique of Dipoto is that he's basically just a tinkerer with no real vision.  You can say what you want about how Hahn operates but you have to agree that when given the chance he was able to execute his vision for a contending WS roster over a 4-6 year time frame.  What vision does Dipoto have other than sorta making these incremental moves season after season where the Mariners remain locked in a very White Sox esque 75-84 win pattern with no real chance via the farm to get over the hump to being an actual good team that can win 95 games and a WS?

There's just no there there for the Ms.

Edited by chitownsportsfan
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5 hours ago, chitownsportsfan said:

They have been arguably the worst Big 4 North American sports franchise since their inception in the 70s.  You just can't make this trade.  It's similar to the White Sox' White Flag trade optically.

Sounds like the clubhouse is shell shocked and the Mariners are getting ass whooped by the Stros tonight.  They aren't a good team, they have a -49 differential and one of the worst offenses in MLB -- but you just can't make this trade.

The long time critique of Dipoto is that he's basically just a tinkerer with no real vision.  You can say what you want about how Hahn operates but you have to agree that when given the chance he was able to execute his vision for a contending WS roster over a 4-6 year time frame.  What vision does Dipoto have other than sorta making these incremental moves season after season where the Mariners remain locked in a very White Sox esque 75-84 win pattern with no real chance via the farm to get over the hump to being an actual good team that can win 95 games and a WS?

There's just no there there for the Ms.

I think this is overly harsh. I'm not going to hold it against dipoto that they were way more competitive than expected this year. He has made some great trades and them developing Crawford was really impressive. I don't know if they have enough, but this trade definitely helps. 

It's not like the bulk of their rebuild is up yet, it's still coming with Kelenic and Rodriguez.

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37 minutes ago, bmags said:

I think this is overly harsh. I'm not going to hold it against dipoto that they were way more competitive than expected this year. He has made some great trades and them developing Crawford was really impressive. I don't know if they have enough, but this trade definitely helps. 

It's not like the bulk of their rebuild is up yet, it's still coming with Kelenic and Rodriguez.

Do they have enough pitching in the pipeline?  Arguably, they'd be right there with Paxson this year, but the prospects mostly seem to be on the position player side. 

Such a surreal trade...players just going to opposite clubhouses, especially with the M's just having made a comeback from 7 runs down. 

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I'm on Dipoto's side. You took on Graveman, he was hot, and you flipped him for a serviceable, young, controlled bat that never has really been given consistent at bats. They weren't, and still aren't winning that division. Sewald can step in and close right away. Seager has had some power this year, but very low BA. Toro can step in at 3rd base for years beyond this one and all they lost was what, 15-20 innings of Graveman?

Also I wouldn't be shocked to see the Mariners go out and trade for a nice IF piece ala Turner or the likes. If not? I expect them to be very active in the offseason filling in via FA. That market is ready to spend and I think you'll see it ...

1b - Evan White, France

2b - moore/shed long

SS - crawford

3b - Toro

Cf - Kelenic

Rf - kyle lewis

Lf - julio rodriguez

C - raleigh/torrens

clearly they need some IF help. White is great defensively, so maybe you can live w him and hope his bat comes around. But moore/long/crawford probably don't get it done. seeing as there are a ton of SS as FA this offseason? I can see them nabbing one of them and then moving crawford to 2b. Then you have moore as a super sub. it's really not a bad team. it's a few veteran bats from being very, very good. 

pitching wise?

They need help. gonzalez is #3. flexen is a serviceable #5. dunn is a #4 on a good team. he's got some nasty stuff. kinda a cease type guy in my mind. if he can harness it can be a front of rotation guy. kikuchi... gilbert ....

nothing blows you away, but it's a solid team that is only a few guys away. trading graveman is a smart, calculated baseball move. 

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