The MLB lockout is lifted!

[Texsox]

6 hours ago, Balta1701 said:

Basic economics.

In a competitive market, if I overcharge, a competitor will appear who begins to eat up market share.

But if there’s a barrier to entry, whether it’s Facebook owning every social media app so people don’t need a new one or baseball where it doesn’t matter how much money I have I can’t just found a competitive league, prices are not set by competition with any competition. Prices are instead set by what someone will pay.

That sets up a limited monopoly. In this setup, my costs only matter if I am going bankrupt paying them. It doesn’t matter if my labor cost is 40% or 60%, that doesn’t change the way I price my product because if I raise my prices, no competition undercuts me. In this case, the price is always determined by what maximizes revenue, and the only way labor costs factor in is if they are so high that my business folds.

Note that no baseball teams closed when players received a 33% larger share of profits on average.

Basic business success. Either charge more or lower your costs. Yes, they can’t charge more. Now players are getting a higher percentage of the revenues, whose pocket will that come out of? Owners? Front office? Other employees? Fans? 
 

[Texsox]

6 hours ago, Balta1701 said:

The owners have raised prices on fans by a billion dollars a year over the last ten years in money that isn’t going to the players. Why are you ok with price increases for their pocketbooks?

Which Sox current players do you believe should have received larger contracts? Garcia? Toss a few million more to him? How about getting Grandal over $20 mil? Luis? Let’s make him a free agent next season so he can grab a quick$100 mil. Vaughn? $4 mil next season. 
 

Will higher salaries and a greater emphasis on free agents help or hurt the Sox? 
 

 

[NWINFan]

To me, this work stoppage represents what is happening in the country right now. Opposing sides are not seeking a common ground. Instead, divisions are created and bitterness will last a long time.

At this point, I don't care who is right or wrong. Each side has their viewpoint. I am only one fan, but if one game of the regular season gets cancelled due to a work stoppage, I won't attend one game this year, and I won't care what the White Sox are doing. And I think this is the message fans should be sending the baseball establishment right now. Each side wants to win, but there won't be any winners if they look out in the stands and see 5,000 people out there.

I don't know what influence JR has now, but he should have learned a huge lesson. The 1994 strike and its aftermath nearly destroyed the White Sox as a franchise. Any stoppage will only hurt his team, and he should do what he can to stop it. If he cares at all which I don't know if he does.

[Kyyle23]

@hi8is is right this sucks 

[ron883]

South side hit men is taking a break from here and left a message on his profile. I was wondering where everybody's favorite white knight was at. See below. 

 

"Will be taking a break until the lockout is over.

In the event owners destroy the sport further with an expansion of playoffs, my remaining interest will die off, and you won’t be seeing me here anymore.

Expect the Sox and Owner and Front Office sycophants to tout playoff births, regardless of Hahn and Jerry’s pathetic record of playoff success.

Until ownership is replaced, and a complete Front Office, Manager and Coaching Staff overhaul occurs, the Sox will continue to suck both on and off the field.

Boycott this crap, and oppose any attempt to steal more money from Working Class Chicagoans by corrupt selfish scumbags like Jerry Reinsdorf."

[pcq]

No the fans should not bear the brunt of the owners having to share more revenue. The players have a PR problem with fans worried about the owners going hungry. 

[Kyyle23]

7 minutes ago, ron883 said:

South side hit men is taking a break from here and left a message on his profile. I was wondering where everybody's favorite white knight was at. See below. 

 

"Will be taking a break until the lockout is over.

In the event owners destroy the sport further with an expansion of playoffs, my remaining interest will die off, and you won’t be seeing me here anymore.

Expect the Sox and Owner and Front Office sycophants to tout playoff births, regardless of Hahn and Jerry’s pathetic record of playoff success.

Until ownership is replaced, and a complete Front Office, Manager and Coaching Staff overhaul occurs, the Sox will continue to suck both on and off the field.

Boycott this crap, and oppose any attempt to steal more money from Working Class Chicagoans by corrupt selfish scumbags like Jerry Reinsdorf."

Oh

[poppysox]

58 minutes ago, NWINFan said:

To me, this work stoppage represents what is happening in the country right now. Opposing sides are not seeking a common ground. Instead, divisions are created and bitterness will last a long time.

At this point, I don't care who is right or wrong. Each side has their viewpoint. I am only one fan, but if one game of the regular season gets cancelled due to a work stoppage, I won't attend one game this year, and I won't care what the White Sox are doing. And I think this is the message fans should be sending the baseball establishment right now. Each side wants to win, but there won't be any winners if they look out in the stands and see 5,000 people out there.

I don't know what influence JR has now, but he should have learned a huge lesson. The 1994 strike and its aftermath nearly destroyed the White Sox as a franchise. Any stoppage will only hurt his team, and he should do what he can to stop it. If he cares at all which I don't know if he does.

I agree with everything you said here.  Although I side with the owners...I believe work stoppages are bad for baseball.  Both sides need to get this solved asap.

[Balta1701]

2 hours ago, Texsox said:

Which Sox current players do you believe should have received larger contracts? Garcia? Toss a few million more to him? How about getting Grandal over $20 mil? Luis? Let’s make him a free agent next season so he can grab a quick$100 mil. Vaughn? $4 mil next season. 
 

Will higher salaries and a greater emphasis on free agents help or hurt the Sox? 
 

 

Yes. Leury Garcia is no liner underpaid but he was in the first 5 years of his career. Lucas Giolito is SEVERELY underpaid. Yoan Moncada is so underpaid that I’m on record repeatedly saying he should have fired his agent. Tim Anderson is underpaid. Do you believe Luis Robert is only going to generate $6 million in value for the White Sox next year? He might generate that in jersey sales alone. All of these guys have their value suppressed because of a rule that says 6.8 years is a magic number and after you play that long it becomes a free market, but beforehand you have to deal on their terms.

Why is 6.8 a magic number? Couldn’t it be 5.37476 years? Or 2.14375 years? In the  NFL and NBA it’s 4-5 years, do you believe those teams can’t compete? The Bulls are bankrupted by that?

[hi8is]

Did I mention this sucks? Oh… @Kyyle23 already did. Nevermind, continue on doing whatever it is that you’re doing.

[Texsox]

9 hours ago, Balta1701 said:

Yes. Leury Garcia is no liner underpaid but he was in the first 5 years of his career. Lucas Giolito is SEVERELY underpaid. Yoan Moncada is so underpaid that I’m on record repeatedly saying he should have fired his agent. Tim Anderson is underpaid. Do you believe Luis Robert is only going to generate $6 million in value for the White Sox next year? He might generate that in jersey sales alone. All of these guys have their value suppressed because of a rule that says 6.8 years is a magic number and after you play that long it becomes a free market, but beforehand you have to deal on their terms.

Why is 6.8 a magic number? Couldn’t it be 5.37476 years? Or 2.14375 years? In the  NFL and NBA it’s 4-5 years, do you believe those teams can’t compete? The Bulls are bankrupted by that?

Why have a draft at all? Free agent from the start. 

Fortunately money has never stopped this team from competing.

[Sambuca]

What is anyone even saying?

[hi8is]

11 minutes ago, Sambuca said:

What is anyone even saying?

They’re all saying the same thing: This sucks.

[Sambuca]

3 minutes ago, hi8is said:

They’re all saying the same thing: This sucks.

This sucks.  

[caulfield12]

15 hours ago, poppysox said:

Because the owners take 100% of the risk of making those decisions.

What is the risk when your initial investment increases 20-30% per year in value regardless of what happens?

[poppysox]

9 hours ago, caulfield12 said:

What is the risk when your initial investment increases 20-30% per year in value regardless of what happens?

Perhaps a disease could sweep across the World and wipe out 2/3rds of a season.  I know...unlikely but it could happen.

[caulfield12]

48 minutes ago, poppysox said:

Perhaps a disease could sweep across the World and wipe out 2/3rds of a season.  I know...unlikely but it could happen.

And which MLB franchise is worth less now than it was on at mid-summer, 2020?  Even the A's and Rays will get massive premiums on current cl valuations when they sell for relocation purposes...

 

Also, guess we will see similar testing changes soon for MLB...an outdoor sport with even less physical contact.

"The NFL will stop mandating weekly COVID-19 tests for asymptomatic vaccinated players, according to memos distributed Saturday that described a major shift in the league's approach to the pandemic.

The new protocols, which take effect next week, could allow the virus to spread undetected through locker rooms, and could increase opportunities for infected but otherwise healthy players to participate in games.

The NFL and NFLPA announced the "more targeted testing plan" in a statement, along with "more flexibility" for players "to attend meetings virtually" and opportunities for "high-risk players" to opt out of the remainder of the season."

 

 

 

 

[poppysox]

35 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

And which MLB franchise is worth less now than it was on at mid-summer, 2020?  Even the A's and Rays will get massive premiums on current cl valuations when they sell for relocation purposes...

 

Also, guess we will see similar testing changes soon for MLB...an outdoor sport with even less physical contact.

"The NFL will stop mandating weekly COVID-19 tests for asymptomatic vaccinated players, according to memos distributed Saturday that described a major shift in the league's approach to the pandemic.

The new protocols, which take effect next week, could allow the virus to spread undetected through locker rooms, and could increase opportunities for infected but otherwise healthy players to participate in games.

The NFL and NFLPA announced the "more targeted testing plan" in a statement, along with "more flexibility" for players "to attend meetings virtually" and opportunities for "high-risk players" to opt out of the remainder of the season."

 

 

 

 

 

You should buy a team with a group of friends.  You make it sound like anyone can make a small fortune doing it.

[pcq]

I don't think this forum should continue without ssh*tmen. 🤔 

[Balta1701]

1 hour ago, poppysox said:

You should buy a team with a group of friends.  You make it sound like anyone can make a small fortune doing it.

Pretty much yeah, you just have to be allowed into the club.

[caulfield12]

14 hours ago, poppysox said:

You should buy a team with a group of friends.  You make it sound like anyone can make a small fortune doing it.

Somewhere around 44% of the billionaires and owners' class inherited their money.    (I can't separate the data for China, but they have even more billionaires than the US and 90%+ of those are self-made, so the numbers in the US would be closer to 60-65% inherited.)

They were just born luckier.

So why would you side with them over players...the majority of Latin Americans coming from close to abject poverty in the Dominican or Venezuela....when they haven't even had to lift a finger to earn their positions, like Reinsdorf's kids?

 

There are 2,604 billionaires in the world, and 55.8% of them are self-made. 

That’s according to the Billionaire Census published Thursday by market research firm Wealth-X.

Taken together, self-made billionaires have a total of nearly $5 trillion.

 

Another 30.9% of billionaires made at least some of their wealth themselves, according to the report, while 13.3% inherited their wealth entirely.

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/05/10/wealthx-billionaire-census-majority-of-worlds-billionaires-self-made.html

Edited December 20, 2021 by caulfield12

[Kyyle23]

21 hours ago, poppysox said:

You should buy a team with a group of friends.  You make it sound like anyone can make a small fortune doing it.

Someone get this guy some water, bootlicking is a a tough job.   I'm sure later he is gonna need some Tylenol for offering his back for them to stand on, those poor, poor, rich billionaires 

[Texsox]

I've worked at two startups where the owners had literally everything they owned used as collateral. I didn't begrudge then their success. 

Sports teams are a bit different. They have a monopoly and a built in system that keeps teams from putting other teams out of business. The competition isn't for revenues for the most part. I believe for the majority of teams their profits are high enough that they could increase salaries for all of their employees. 

Being an athlete is also a bit different than other jobs. We could solve hunger in the world if we capped entertainer's salaries and used the excess to feed people. We spend a lot of money for people to entertain us. I compare their salaries to the average American and I don't have any energy to claim they should be earning more. 

Already rich people are fighting over making one group slight less rich and another group slightly more rich. It's not quite the French Revolution. If there was a proposal on the table that teams had to set aside 25% of their revenues for charitable work, I'd passionately take a side. 

But it's literally the only MLB topic to really discuss. I can't wait for my high school team to get started.

[buckweaver]

On 12/20/2021 at 6:31 AM, Texsox said:

I've worked at two startups where the owners had literally everything they owned used as collateral. I didn't begrudge then their success. 

Sports teams are a bit different. They have a monopoly and a built in system that keeps teams from putting other teams out of business. The competition isn't for revenues for the most part. I believe for the majority of teams their profits are high enough that they could increase salaries for all of their employees. 

Being an athlete is also a bit different than other jobs. We could solve hunger in the world if we capped entertainer's salaries and used the excess to feed people. We spend a lot of money for people to entertain us. I compare their salaries to the average American and I don't have any energy to claim they should be earning more. 

Already rich people are fighting over making one group slight less rich and another group slightly more rich. It's not quite the French Revolution. If there was a proposal on the table that teams had to set aside 25% of their revenues for charitable work, I'd passionately take a side. 

But it's literally the only MLB topic to really discuss. I can't wait for my high school team to get started.

I like this post, Tex. A couple points on this whole issue that I haven't seen yet. 1. Where are all the former star players lining up to be part of MLB ownership groups? Derek Jeter is the only one I can think of. But if being an owner was such a wonderful financial boon, I'd guess some of these other very rich men would want part of that action. 2. I believe the players would have a lot more people on their side if they advocated for their minor league brethren (I understand  they are not currently part of the union, but that could be changed...no one is taking up that mantel) and/or made a push for a significantly higher MLB player minimum salary (last year's was $570,500; make it $2 million to guarantee those guys who make it to the show actually have significant earnings). Overall, I agree more with the players this time around. Like all of us, I hope it settles without disruption to the season.

Edited December 21, 2021 by buckweaver
typo

[CentralChamps21]

On 12/18/2021 at 5:50 AM, Texsox said:

Which Sox current players do you believe should have received larger contracts? Garcia? Toss a few million more to him? How about getting Grandal over $20 mil? Luis? Let’s make him a free agent next season so he can grab a quick$100 mil. Vaughn? $4 mil next season. 
 

Will higher salaries and a greater emphasis on free agents help or hurt the Sox? 
 

 

How to determine a "fair" player salary: start with the entire 30-team salary pool, determined as a percentage of league revenue (let's just say 50% for example) and then an individual's salary is determined by his WAR compared to the collective WAR of the league. There would have to be some adjustment, because 0 WAR players can't have zero salaries and negative WAR players can't have negative salaries, but that's the basic concept.