southsider2k5 Posted February 28, 2022 Author Share Posted February 28, 2022 Just now, poppysox said: Apparently, those people have reading comprehension issues. Although I have no problem with the owners as a group...I don't feel any need to bash the players. You keep siding with the players on all issues. I've pointed out frequently that both sides claimed that parity was the prime issue. Yet neither side is talking about a minimum team cap. Why are you so easy on the players with that issue? Yet, your posts routinely bash players and make excuses for owners and present them in the best possible light. Most others can see it, which should tell you something. 1 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted February 28, 2022 Share Posted February 28, 2022 57 minutes ago, poppysox said: No one has tried to demean the skills of the players. The vast majority of workers don't make as much as they are worth. However, I could make a list of overplayed players easier than a list meant to reflect those who are underpaid. 1. What's your point here? The owners deserve a break because there have been times when they've decided to give a player what turns out to be a bad contract? 2. Actually, no you couldn't. It's MUCH easier to put together a list of highly-performing players on a minimum salary contract than it is to put together a list of under-performing veterans on FA deals. 3. It's overpaid, not overplayed. For someone that likes to call out mistakes of others, I'd make sure my own bed is made first. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chitownsportsfan Posted February 28, 2022 Share Posted February 28, 2022 The owners and Vlad sure are intent on uniting the world against them. Bold strategy. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poppysox Posted February 28, 2022 Share Posted February 28, 2022 2 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said: Yet, your posts routinely bash players and make excuses for owners and present them in the best possible light. Most others can see it, which should tell you something. What players have I bashed? This is just not true. 3 minutes ago, Tony said: 1. What's your point here? The owners deserve a break because there have been times when they've decided to give a player what turns out to be a bad contract? 2. Actually, no you couldn't. It's MUCH easier to put together a list of highly-performing players on a minimum salary contract than it is to put together a list of under-performing veterans on FA deals. 3. It's overpaid, not overplayed. For someone that likes to call out mistakes of others, I'd make sure my own bed is made first. 3 minutes ago, Tony said: 1. What's your point here? The owners deserve a break because there have been times when they've decided to give a player what turns out to be a bad contract? 2. Actually, no you couldn't. It's MUCH easier to put together a list of highly-performing players on a minimum salary contract than it is to put together a list of under-performing veterans on FA deals. 3. It's overpaid, not overplayed. For someone that likes to call out mistakes of others, I'd make sure my own bed is made first. What mistakes are you referring to? Just love to hear yourself talk don't you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSox59 Posted February 28, 2022 Share Posted February 28, 2022 Just now, poppysox said: What players have I bashed? This is just not true. What mistakes are you referring to? Just love to hear yourself talk don't you. Might be time to step away from Soxtalk man. 2 2 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Sacamano Posted February 28, 2022 Share Posted February 28, 2022 (edited) 28 minutes ago, Tony said: 1. What's your point here? The owners deserve a break because there have been times when they've decided to give a player what turns out to be a bad contract? 2. Actually, no you couldn't. It's MUCH easier to put together a list of highly-performing players on a minimum salary contract than it is to put together a list of under-performing veterans on FA deals. 3. It's overpaid, not overplayed. For someone that likes to call out mistakes of others, I'd make sure my own bed is made first. Right? So many guys get paid near league minimum for their best years. I honestly think a bonus pool of the like $115 mill they want for pre-arb players is fair considering that’s under $4 mill a team. Actually seems like it should be an easy concession from owners. Edited February 28, 2022 by Bob Sacamano 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tnetennba Posted February 28, 2022 Share Posted February 28, 2022 24 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said: This post is exactly why people accuse you of being pro-owner. I asked him way back in December why he didn't hold the owners in the same contempt and he basically admitted to being pro-owner. I could dig for receipts if I really cared to argue with him any more, but its futile to expend the energy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyyle23 Posted February 28, 2022 Share Posted February 28, 2022 2 minutes ago, poppysox said: What players have I bashed? This is just not true. What mistakes are you referring to? Just love to hear yourself talk don't you. He is talking about you, calling out me, for mistakenly typing "pay" instead of "play" a few hours ago. Long time ago, I know 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tnetennba Posted February 28, 2022 Share Posted February 28, 2022 3 hours ago, poppysox said: My statement said how they got their wealth was not relevant to labor relations. Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhhahahahahahahah. You're entertaining I'll give you that. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted February 28, 2022 Share Posted February 28, 2022 7 minutes ago, poppysox said: What mistakes are you referring to? Just love to hear yourself talk don't you. And yet you never respond to questions posed to you, because you know you can't. It's the same shtick with you all the time. Maybe people would take you more seriously if you actually tried to engage with people, instead of making a comment, getting called out for it, then running away instead of backing it up with any kind of substance. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tnetennba Posted February 28, 2022 Share Posted February 28, 2022 18 minutes ago, poppysox said: Apparently, those people have reading comprehension issues. Although I have no problem with the owners as a group...I don't feel any need to bash the players. You keep siding with the players on all issues. I've pointed out frequently that both sides claimed that parity was the prime issue. Yet neither side is talking about a minimum team cap. Why are you so easy on the players with that issue? Right, all of us have reading comprehension issues. All of us reading your very pro owner / anti player posts. Gaslight as you may try, but we've spend all winter arguing this shit and you might not think your statements are pro owner, but they very much are. Beyond mere bias towards either side. But here you are again fighting with multiple people who see your statements for what they are. But again, all of us are wrong. Sure, whatever you say. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quin Posted February 28, 2022 Share Posted February 28, 2022 Y'all are right, we had reading comprehension issues due to the thread title. It said work stoppage and it should have said lockout all along. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted February 28, 2022 Author Share Posted February 28, 2022 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyyle23 Posted February 28, 2022 Share Posted February 28, 2022 2 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said: This just seems bad for both sides 😂 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BFirebird Posted February 28, 2022 Share Posted February 28, 2022 56 minutes ago, chitownsportsfan said: The owners and Vlad sure are intent on uniting the world against them. Bold strategy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Sacamano Posted February 28, 2022 Share Posted February 28, 2022 (edited) 2 hours ago, poppysox said: The owners haven't done a thing that surprises me or is wrong IMO. They run businesses and try to hold down costs just like any company in America. The owner's wealth however they achieved it is not relevant to the discussion any more than if I said Giolito comes from a wealthy family. I do believe the players will need to consider how long they can fight the good fight. It is very hard to keep 1000+ people on board compared to 30. Also, these bottom-of-the-tier players are the ones who need spring training to attempt to earn a spot. Yes, I frequently say I don't care who wins because all I want to do is watch baseball. I won't get a bonus if the owners "win." Why is that so hard to understand? I do believe the vast majority of players are very satisfied with their situation and would never hold out because of any injustice they personally feel. These union rants about the poor working man against the tyrannical oppressor owners are just plain dishonest and are used in every union/employee negotiation. Some forum members want to pretend they are Robin Hood taking from the rich and giving to the poor. The only money that is going to change hands is fans paying higher prices. There should be a different standard when you are in the sports/entertainment business. When you're buying a team, you should want to invest resources into it and put the best team on the field. No fans are going to cheer for being the most profitable. Edited February 28, 2022 by Bob Sacamano 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScootsMcGoots Posted February 28, 2022 Share Posted February 28, 2022 18 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said: I bet he started it with something along the lines of "Listen fuckers" 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tnetennba Posted February 28, 2022 Share Posted February 28, 2022 Lets take a trip down memory lane shall we... On 12/3/2021 at 9:03 AM, poppysox said: Just like you and I... the houses and stocks and bonds, etc. all become part of their net worth. As you know, many people are millionaires who never had a 100 thousand per year job. By my count, the WS club has 22 multi-millionaires who are on the major league roster. If those 22 players are not millionaires they really should cut down on the fast food and high-priced women. Quite an odd revealing statement, said unprovoked. Seems pretty anti player to me. On 12/17/2021 at 6:46 PM, poppysox said: Never misses a paycheck. Reason why he thinks the players should have caved in mid December. On 12/17/2021 at 7:12 PM, poppysox said: When is enough...enough? I don't want to pay more than I am already paying for a ticket or a hot dog. Is there some player you feel sorry for? I can't think of a single example of some player who would be doing better in some other line of work. Said in discussion of the players earning more. Quite the contemptuous tone. Seems pretty anti player to me. On 12/18/2021 at 5:42 AM, poppysox said: Because the owners take 100% of the risk of making those decisions. In discussing why he sides with ownership. A statement not based in fact and debunked by posters later down the page. On 12/18/2021 at 9:41 AM, poppysox said: I agree with everything you said here. Although I side with the owners...I believe work stoppages are bad for baseball. Both sides need to get this solved asap. His own words. On 12/24/2021 at 8:36 PM, poppysox said: There are employees in every profession that feel underpaid. However, not many professions have the salaries of professional baseball players. I don't think many players feel underpaid in reality. I haven't seen any explanation of how any ask from the union would improve the average player's compensation at all. I have used Leury as an example since we all know he signed a three-year contract at 5.5 million per year. He is a nice but average player IMO. My belief is that Leury feels well compensated and is just happy as a clam with his pay envelope. He will not be happy to miss out for let's say 3 months of the largest paychecks of his life for a new deal that will gain him absolutely nothing. Lastly, it seems to me that players being allowed free agency sooner would play into the hands of a few teams who already have a money advantage over the competition. There is no reason why I want to give the Yankees another advantage over my team. Total speculation based on no real info, but with a serious anti-player bend. The union has proposed raising the minimum and it is still a major sticking point for owners. On 12/29/2021 at 2:48 PM, poppysox said: Watch! It's far more than remotely true. The Kris Brandt thing is their most legitimate complaint and that affects relatively few people. Literally, no one from the White Sox has been jerked around over the qualifying time issue. As a matter of fact...many posters blame the WS for not playing the qualifying time game with Kopech. A false statement. The Sox definitely watched those service time days before calling up a few prized prospects. On 12/29/2021 at 4:39 PM, poppysox said: I didn't say anything about legitimate reasons to fight for more gains. I have said repeatedly that "the average player" feels well paid IMO and doesn't want to miss very many paychecks. This sitting out the year crap is just not going to happen. No one is dying on any bridge that I know of. I have stated my view until I have no other way to state it. Come back when the lock-out ends. In my view, it will be sooner than you think. A statement based purely on opinion that has been disproven as the lockout has dragged into almost March. On 12/29/2021 at 6:10 PM, poppysox said: Neither of us can prove his position to be correct. Time will tell. A statement of deflection while refusing to answer an ask for the proof behind his statements. A pattern that continues throughout the thread. On 12/29/2021 at 7:57 PM, poppysox said: Yeah...I saw a similar quote from owners saying they had made a number of offers to include universal DH and improvements in the minor league conditions but received no response. I notice your example of players stating opinions is from two high-priced players who are not the average players that I have referred to many times. Just for the record ...I hope this lockout ends tomorrow and I don't really care if the owners give in or hold firm. I enjoyed baseball better when my players stayed on the WS and were associated with the WS team. This new era of players playing for the highest bidder will ultimately ruin the game. On 12/29/2021 at 10:01 PM, Tnetennba said: "This new era of players playing for the highest bidder will ultimately ruin the game. " Based on what exactly? Last I checked Baseball revenues have continually risen, and the players share hasn't, and the owners locked said players out because they don't want to share those higher revenues with the very players the create those revenues. So how exactly has "players playing for the highest bidder" aka trying to maximize their earnings during a limited playing career ruined the game? Baseball seems pretty popular to me. Lucas Giolito made $4,1500,00 last season and is still on his rookie deal. Not exactly a high priced player in today's game. I know you are stating your own opinions here, something you are completely free to do, but a little fact checking goes a long way. My rebuttal, debunking yet another false statement. Just in the first 25 or so pages of this thread. But we have reading comprehension issues. 4 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCalChiSox Posted February 28, 2022 Share Posted February 28, 2022 5 minutes ago, ScooterMcGee said: I bet he started it with something along the lines of "Listen fuckers" That's probably how poppysox would have addressed the players. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poppysox Posted February 28, 2022 Share Posted February 28, 2022 1 hour ago, ChiSox59 said: Might be time to step away from Soxtalk man. How so? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyyle23 Posted February 28, 2022 Share Posted February 28, 2022 Been a while since I have seen a full @Quin happen on this site. Well done @Tnetennba 3 1 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poppysox Posted February 28, 2022 Share Posted February 28, 2022 2 hours ago, ChiSox59 said: I feel like if this were true, we wouldn't be in this position. I do somewhat feel like this whole thing is overblown. I do see where both sides are coming from. I don't think raising the min salary to (say) $800k is unreasonable. I am sure there are a share of players who would happily continue on with the current set up. A cancelled season could certainly be devastating to some fringe players. But if the "vast majority" of players were on board with what the owners propose, we would not be in the position. The nights not over. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tnetennba Posted February 28, 2022 Share Posted February 28, 2022 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tnetennba Posted February 28, 2022 Share Posted February 28, 2022 I wonder where we get the idea that the owners are still refusing to budge off major issues... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Sacamano Posted February 28, 2022 Share Posted February 28, 2022 (edited) 8 minutes ago, Tnetennba said: I want a live stream of this for 8 hours a day on MLBN if this happens. Would definitely help my work day. Edited February 28, 2022 by Bob Sacamano 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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