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Offseason Part 3 - Because Part 2 Was a Dud


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36 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said:

So when Conforto and Manaea go elsewhere can we officially ride Jerry and Hahn out of town on a rail? 

I hate to say it but it's not your decision. You can yell and scream at the top of your lungs but at the end if the day nothing will happen.

They will have a top 5 payroll and will have made the playoffs 3 years in a row.

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3 minutes ago, CWSpalehoseCWS said:

You cannot possibly be serious about this.

It's literally how pretty much every off-season has gone since I joined Soxtalk. You can pretend it doesn't happen, but I could go back and bump all the corresponding points to support each point. 

Sox won't sign Conforto. If there offer was good, the team themselves will leak it to someone to show that they tried (most embarrassing thing about the SOx by far is that they're the only team that constantly leaks their offers post-acceptance to claim they offered more or similar). If their offer wasn't competitive, which it won't be if there is one at all, there will be some leak from Sox "connected" people claiming Conforto was way overpaid and the Sox were smart for not upping their competitive offer.

Edited by Look at Ray Ray Run
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23 minutes ago, The Beast said:

There was nothing flukish about what went on during the season against winning teams and how much they got their asses kicked against Houston in the playoffs.

Nope. The Sox had trouble with other playoff teams in the RS and that was proven true when they got curb stomped by Houston in the ALDS. 

Edited by Jack Parkman
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53 minutes ago, Lillian said:

It seems hard to believe that TLR is not insisting upon creating better balance in the lineup, and if that is the case, J.R. would probably try to accommodate. If not Conforto, perhaps there is someone, in the last year, or two, before they reach free agency, whom Hahn could acquire, via a trade. Joey Gallo is the only one that comes to mind, and he is too flawed of a hitter to provide what the Sox need. Who else could be a candidate?

 

There was speculation about Bellinger or Lux from the Dodgers but the Dodgers aren't going to give Bellinger away when his upside is so high. Dodgers may need more bullpen help and are already significantly over the CBT limit .Kimbrel and Bellinger contracts cancel for 22. Bellinger has 2 years left and is in his last year of arbitration for 2023.Can't see the Dodgers giving up on Bellinger or caring that much about the CBT.

Were basically left to grasping at straws at this point.

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1 hour ago, ptatc said:

I hate to say it but it's not your decision. You can yell and scream at the top of your lungs but at the end if the day nothing will happen.

They will have a top 5 payroll and will have made the playoffs 3 years in a row.

I really think the Sox leadership group finds the fanbase contemptible. 

Just making the playoffs and getting destroyed in the ALDS isn't enough. 

Edited by Jack Parkman
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Just now, Jack Parkman said:

I really think the Sox leadership group finds the fanbase contemptible. 

I think they run the team by what they think is best not by fan reaction. 

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3 minutes ago, ptatc said:

I think they run the team by what they think is best not by fan reaction. 

I agree with you 100% here, and I think that's actually the scariest part of it all. They geniunely think that the way they spend money is effective, efficient and intelligent.

Edited by Look at Ray Ray Run
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8 minutes ago, 35thstreetswarm said:

Also, take away all their wins and they were winless in those other games 

The point was that we weren't gauging how good the Sox are now based on the series against Houston. They weren't exactly a juggernaut in the 2nd half, on the road or against teams over .500 and their best pitcher laboring.

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54 minutes ago, Lillian said:

It seems hard to believe that TLR is not insisting upon creating better balance in the lineup, and if that is the case, J.R. would probably try to accommodate. If not Conforto, perhaps there is someone, in the last year, or two, before they reach free agency, whom Hahn could acquire, via a trade. Joey Gallo is the only one that comes to mind, and he is too flawed of a hitter to provide what the Sox need. Who else could be a candidate?

 

He’s cool with Leury getting 500+ AB’s. 

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6 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

It's literally how pretty much every off-season has gone since I joined Soxtalk. You can pretend it doesn't happen, but I could go back and bump all the corresponding points to support each point. 

Sox won't sign Conforto. If there offer was good, the team themselves will leak it to someone to show that they tried (most embarrassing thing about the SOx by far is that they're the only team that constantly leaks their offers post-acceptance to claim they offered more or similar). If their offer wasn't competitive, which it won't be if there is one at all, there will be some leak from Sox "connected" people claiming Conforto was way overpaid and the Sox were smart for not upping their competitive offer.

You actually are saying that the Sox are passing along fake information to appease 6,881 members of Sox Talk?

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4 minutes ago, CWSpalehoseCWS said:

You actually are saying that the Sox are passing along fake information to appease 6,881 members of Sox Talk?

Fake information? Soxtalk? The Sox give information to their insiders who pass information around amongst each other and it reaches the Sox fanbase.

Do you think that anyone with the Sox leaking the 4/75 offer to Conforto is doing it out of the kindness of their heart to keep the insiders "in the loop?" What do you think would be the purpose of leaking a years and dollar value to anyone is? Especially when the offer is likely short of what would be needed?

lol, how many off-seasons do you need to watch this dog and pony show before you realize it's a process we have gone through pretty much every off-season since the rebuild began? Sox been sitting at the table so long without ordering anything that they're close to being charged with loitering. 

Edited by Look at Ray Ray Run
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3 minutes ago, CWSpalehoseCWS said:

You actually are saying that the Sox are passing along fake information to appease 6,881 members of Sox Talk?

He's saying that the Sox are passing along fake information to appease Sox fans everywhere

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22 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

No offense to James, but at this point he's likely being used as a mouth piece by the organization to claim they made a competitive offer and Conforto is asking for too much money. It's called the cycle of the White Sox offseasons on Soxtalk and the internet in general. It always goes this way.

Off-season starts and Sox appear to be aware of their needs
Sox fans tie them to marquee free agents at said positions of need
Speculation grows without any hard evidence
James or some other insider claims the Sox made a competitive offer, they then applaud the offer, and blame the player for asking for too much money
Player signs elsehwere for said "too much money."
Insiders and etc spread message that no one could expect the Sox to spend at that level, it's "too much money"
Off-season over

Dude go fuck yourself. Seriously. Keep my name out of your mouth. 

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2 minutes ago, soxfan49 said:

He's saying that the Sox are passing along fake information to appease Sox fans everywhere

And no one said the information is fake, the point is the Sox made an offer early in the off-season, according to our great source, that had zero chance of being accepted and then moved on to other assets. They can claim they gave it the ole college try and the insiders will eat it up, they'll even say it's Conforto's fault for asking for too much money. Conforto will go on to sign for some amount of money the insiders deemed to be too much and the world will go on.

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19 minutes ago, Soxfest said:

JR needs to act like a major market team owner or sell. He will got give out anything over 100 mil to anyone under his watch. Getting to the point 2nd place every year is best for JR pocketbook.

Even though I have my gripes and content with the front office/ownership. They will have a top 5- 7 payroll this year. My issue is how they allocate that money and poor use of  money management. 

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4 minutes ago, Y2Jimmy0 said:

Dude go fuck yourself. Seriously. Keep my name out of your mouth. 

Woh... Sorry that you can't see through the process. Really no need to start swearing at people and get angry pal. Hilarious how offended you get for pointing out that a supposed non-competitive offer made months ago didn't signify a serious push by the Sox, and that it was not in fact Conforto's fault that he was asking for "too much money" as you have been pushing for the past week.

Release your thoughts and your position and expect people to give there thoughts. Difference is I won't stoop so low as to start swearing and getting angry at you for your opinions or thoughts.

Edited by Look at Ray Ray Run
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7 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

Woh... Sorry that you can't see through the process. Really no need to start swearing at people and get angry pal. Hilarious how offended you get for pointing out that a supposed non-competitive offer made months ago didn't signify a serious push by the Sox, and that it was not in fact Conforto's fault that he was asking for "too much money" as you have been pushing for the past week.

Release your thoughts and your position and expect people to give there thoughts. Difference is I won't stoop so low as to start swearing and getting angry at you for your opinions or thoughts.

I’m very careful and cautious with the information that I share. I have a vetting process that doesn’t need to be explained to strangers on here though. If I shared everything I hear, I’d look like a complete moron. I’ll stand by my track record with what I share. The assumption that my information came from the White Sox and then I ran to share it to appease the fan base is absurd and wrong. I’m a nobody. The White Sox aren’t sharing info with me. I don’t think Conforto is asking for too much money. The league apparently does however. I’m not trying to make anyone feel better either. If this is the off-season, it’s a failure to allocate available resources properly. I’ve said that. I need to see what else happens though. 

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9 minutes ago, Y2Jimmy0 said:

I’m very careful and cautious with the information that I share. I have a vetting process that doesn’t need to be explained to strangers on here though. If I shared everything I hear, I’d look like a complete moron. I’ll stand by my track record with what I share. The assumption that my information came from the White Sox and then I ran to share it to appease the fan base is absurd and wrong. I’m a nobody. The White Sox aren’t sharing info with me. I don’t think Conforto is asking for too much money. The league apparently does however. I’m not trying to make anyone feel better either. If this is the off-season, it’s a failure to allocate available resources properly. I’ve said that. I need to see what else happens though. 

I still have trouble wrapping my head around how we’re all clamoring for a guy just because he plays RF and bats lefty but is still coming off a 0.8 WAR season to be the answer. Maybe it was both him and Boras who messed this up but his market has been so quiet that it has me thinking that most teams feel he’s just not going to be as productive as his 2017-2019 stats. 
 

I just have a bad feeling that when/if he does sign here for however much $$ we’re going to end up being disappointed in what he brings to the team, I hope I’m wrong of course 

Edited by Rey21
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4 minutes ago, Y2Jimmy0 said:

I’m very careful and cautious with the information that I share. I have a vetting process that doesn’t need to be explained to strangers on here though. If I shared everything I hear, I’d look like a complete moron. I’ll stand by my track record with what I share. The assumption that my information came from the White Sox and then I ran to share it to appease the fan base is absurd and wrong. I’m a nobody. The White Sox aren’t sharing info with me. I don’t think Conforto is asking for too much money. The league apparently does however. I’m not trying to make anyone feel better either. If this is the off-season, it’s a failure to allocate available resources properly. I’ve said that. I need to see what else happens though. 

1. Who/when did I say that was your intent? 
2. How could you possibly be certain about a White Sox offer if the information didn't initially leak from within the White Sox somehow? Even if it came down to you through another source, that would actually justify what I laid out even more.
3. Everyone who signs late in an off-season isn't "asking for too much money." 

Either way, no idea why you got so offended in the first place. 

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Other than naming James specifically - I think Look at Ray Run is 100% right. We do see this same pattern every flipping year. Whether leaks come from insiders on this board, Bob Nightengale, Steve Stone, Not Steve Cishek...who really cares. But we do see the same pattern every year. We get teased and raise our expectations for players that will be signed, and it usually doesn't happen.

Maybe it's a case of us Sox fans being at fault for believing things that weren't ever going to happen. But one thing Rich Hahn and Jerry Reinsdorf should understand is this. Just about all of us don't give a flying fuck about having a seat at the table. That gets us nowhere. We still have a giant hole in right field and a subpar starting second basemen. We don't care what failed offers went out to Machado, Harper, Wheeler, Conforto, Semien, whoever. You either sign the guy or you failed.

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46 minutes ago, 35thstreetswarm said:

We beat them in a series at the Rate IIRC.  There were more than two regular season series

We got swept in a 4 game series in Houston then won the homes series 2-1. Including the playoffs we were 3-8 against them and we’re outscored 66-43. A fluke is when they won a bunch of games by 1 or 2 runs, but that wasn’t the case here.

But yes, thinking the playoffs was a fluke is an incredibly lazy take and could help some feel better about a complacent offseason. 

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If you are going to sign the big name guys, you are going to have to prepare for the last year or two of the contract being ugly, or you come in 2nd or 3rd place with the signing.

if you ever read Roland Hemonds story of the White Sox signing Carlton Fisk, which gave JR and EE instant credibility, he signed him for 3 or 4 years, I can’t remember, but told JR, the last year might be charity. Turns out he lasted 13 or 14 seasons. So JR understood the concept 40 years ago.

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1 minute ago, thxfrthmmrs said:

We got swept in a 4 game series in Houston then won the homes series 2-1. Including the playoffs we were 3-8 against them and we’re outscored 66-43. A fluke is when they won a bunch of games by 1 or 2 runs, but that wasn’t the case here.

But yes, thinking the playoffs was a fluke is an incredibly lazy take and could help some feel better about a complacent offseason. 

It wasn't just Houston either. They had trouble with teams over .500 last year. 

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56 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

Players who hit in Colorado have a large disadvantage on the road. It's far more than a home field advantage. 

Yes, that was my point, in alluding to the Colorado thin air. I would think that the more difficult adjustment would be for players who are used to normal air, when they have to breath in the thinner air. I doubt that it's much of an issue, in a sport like baseball, which really doesn't tax the respiratory system. I always thought that the only real significant issue was that the ball carries further in Colorado and pitchers can't be as effective throwing breaking pitches. Both being advantages to the hitters. Am I missing something? 

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