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Menechino is immovable force


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3 hours ago, southsider2k5 said:

Instead he is controlled for the next two years at $12.5 and 14 million.

So yes, you can pick out the deals that didn't work, 

I picked the deal he was talking about... not some random deal.

And they got one extra year of control of Eloy at like 19 million.  Not the discount Tim took or multiple years.  

 

 

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10 minutes ago, fathom said:

The crappy feeling is that I think all of us know deep down that firing him won’t do shit to turn this around 

You're probably right . It's like cutting branches off a dying tree. It's just cosmetic.

I don't know what it is . The Sox approach of letting the ball get deep and going the opposite way only works for a guy like Tim, Abreu and Robert to some extent.

But all this approach does is encourage guys to go oppo and swing at stuff outside and forego pulling the ball.

No one gets ahead on counts and looks to get out in front and pull it. Even when they are ahead in the count you have to look for a pitch in your zone. If the pitcher aces you on the black somewhere that's ok.

Just too many guys not taking big league hacks like power hitters should be doing. Keep the weight way back on that back leg and transfer it . Even drop that back shoulder some and let it rip as long as you keep your front shoulder in and your head down on the ball.

That's why I enjoyed watching Adolfo in Spring training. That guy has massive power and could hit some out oppo but he takes big league hacks. Guy like Lindor and Albies became HR hitters because they know how to pull the ball.

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32 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

You're probably right . It's like cutting branches off a dying tree. It's just cosmetic.

I don't know what it is . The Sox approach of letting the ball get deep and going the opposite way only works for a guy like Tim, Abreu and Robert to some extent.

But all this approach does is encourage guys to go oppo and swing at stuff outside and forego pulling the ball.

No one gets ahead on counts and looks to get out in front and pull it. Even when they are ahead in the count you have to look for a pitch in your zone. If the pitcher aces you on the black somewhere that's ok.

Just too many guys not taking big league hacks like power hitters should be doing. Keep the weight way back on that back leg and transfer it . Even drop that back shoulder some and let it rip as long as you keep your front shoulder in and your head down on the ball.

That's why I enjoyed watching Adolfo in Spring training. That guy has massive power and could hit some out oppo but he takes big league hacks. Guy like Lindor and Albies became HR hitters because they know how to pull the ball.

Sheets should definitely be in this category...

Not sure what can be done with Pollock and Grandal other than letting them try to play through it.

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7 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

Sheets should definitely be in this category...

Not sure what can be done with Pollock and Grandal other than letting them try to play through it.

Sheets is really the only one that consistently tries to pull the ball. At least he knows his strengths. Grandal tries to pull it too but he's slowing down. The whole team just isn't seeing a lot of fastballs they can crush because pitchers are wise to their free swinging ways.

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Posted (edited)

 

The reality is far worse than this. You need to go to the Original Comiskey Park, a pitchers park, and a season before most of us (I was conceived during this season) were even born, to reach this level of run scoring futility.

1968 was the last season the White Sox did not score 5 or more runs in 10 or more games after 37 games.

There was no designated hitter at the time, and this was the final season before MLB lowered the pitchers mound and shrunk the strike zone to the current dimensions.

https://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/CHW/1968-schedule-scores.shtml

The White Sox were so bad this season,

  • A. The White Sox split home games between Comiskey Park and Milwaukee County Stadium, in an attempt to draw more fans. They drew 803,775 (9th out of 10 AL teams) over 81 home games, or less than 10,000 per game.
  • B. GM Edwin Short went through three different managers this season, if only we could be so lucky.
    • Eddie Stanky (34-45)
    • Les Moss (12-24)
    • Al Lopez (21-26)
  • C. The team finished with a 67-95 record.
  • D. It took until the 53rd game of the season for the Sox to score 5 + runs for the eighth time, a 5-2 win over the Yankees at OG Yankees Stadium, with Wilbur Wood getting his 4th win of the season in front of 5,340 fans (yikes).

The 2022 White Sox will need to go another 16 games to tie, or 17 games with less than 5 runs each game to pass the offensive futility of the 1968 Chicago White Sox, a team handicapped by both the pitcher hitting and a higher pitchers mound.

Edited by South Side Hit Men
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1 hour ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

Sheets is really the only one that consistently tries to pull the ball. At least he knows his strengths. Grandal tries to pull it too but he's slowing down. The whole team just isn't seeing a lot of fastballs they can crush because pitchers are wise to their free swinging ways.

Hence the low 180's team average against off speed stuff needless to say one of the lowest in the majors.

Jamie Moyer and Bruce Chen are licking their chops.

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Let me ask about one specific aspect of many Sox batters' approaches - they don't seem to work counts and often chase balls out of the strike zone.   Say that the manager and coaches (or their were new people in those roles that) noticed this and wanted to focus on it.  Would they be able to get the batters to actually make changes mid-season?  These are mostly veteran players. 

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Posted (edited)
6 hours ago, chw42 said:

At least the coaching staff is starting to acknowledge the problem.

TLR: Hey guys we’re going to go ahead and make some changes soon if things don’t turn around.

Howie Clark: No don’t do that, I’m Howie Clark.

TLR: We’ll, this organization loves their utility players so I guess we’ll keep you around. You deserve it. Here’s a 3 year contract extension. Good job!

Edited by maloney.adam
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7 hours ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

You're probably right . It's like cutting branches off a dying tree. It's just cosmetic.

I don't know what it is . The Sox approach of letting the ball get deep and going the opposite way only works for a guy like Tim, Abreu and Robert to some extent.

But all this approach does is encourage guys to go oppo and swing at stuff outside and forego pulling the ball.

No one gets ahead on counts and looks to get out in front and pull it. Even when they are ahead in the count you have to look for a pitch in your zone. If the pitcher aces you on the black somewhere that's ok.

Just too many guys not taking big league hacks like power hitters should be doing. Keep the weight way back on that back leg and transfer it . Even drop that back shoulder some and let it rip as long as you keep your front shoulder in and your head down on the ball.

That's why I enjoyed watching Adolfo in Spring training. That guy has massive power and could hit some out oppo but he takes big league hacks. Guy like Lindor and Albies became HR hitters because they know how to pull the ball.

Just depends on the year.  Last everyone complained that all the team was pull the ball and hit into the shift. They want them to hit oppo because of the shift.

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11 minutes ago, ptatc said:

Just depends on the year.  Last everyone complained that all the team was pull the ball and hit into the shift. They want them to hit oppo because of the shift.

I recall far more complaints about ground balls than about the shift in general. More ground balls does not seem to be an ideal solution to that.

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I just don't see Menechino being the problem.  These are Major League hitters....they don't need to be told to be more selective, they should know it.  I refuse to believe he hasn't already highlighted the need to take more pitches to most of this roster.

Not only is the whole team struggling to hit, they look lackadaisical and are making bad mistakes on the defensive side of the ball, too.

Our performance on both O and D is a LaRussa problem, not a Menechino problem.  They look like a team with zero sense of direction and lacking motivation.  What's interesting is we don't see any indication that the clubhouse chemistry is bad between players.  They seem to get along fine.  I think they've just collectively decided to half-ass it as a performative protest of their owner sticking them with an 80yo manager.  They tried giving it a chance last season and quickly realized that it's just not going to work....I think they absolutely know that their manager is costing them games.  When you bust your ass only to know that the old fuck with the transition lenses will eventually make a decision to render your effort moot, what's the point?

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8 hours ago, chw42 said:

At least the coaching staff is starting to acknowledge the problem.

This was obviously made public to send a warning shot to the locker room that changes may be coming if this doesn’t get turned around soon. You don’t tell the press about a closed door meeting unless you want it public for a reason. 

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Posted (edited)
6 minutes ago, Tony said:

This was obviously made public to send a warning shot to the locker room that changes may be coming if this doesn’t get turned around soon. You don’t tell the press about a closed door meeting unless you want it public for a reason. 

I want to see some actual changes that will make a difference. We have been through a painful and long rebuild to watch this crap now. Enough is enough already! 

Edited by maloney.adam
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2 minutes ago, Tony said:

This was obviously made public to send a warning shot to the locker room that changes may be coming if this doesn’t get turned around soon. You don’t tell the press about a closed door meeting unless you want it public for a reason. 

What changes coming from the manager/coaches aimed at the locker room are a fix though?  I don’t disagree about the making it public part, just curious where TLR points the finger when he himself is responsible for the shitty incoherent lineups, and the overplaying of utility guys, and the likely cause of the lackadaisical uninspired play.  Who does he hold accountable when he himself is the problem?

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I just don't see how the org can let this continue to happen.  I don't think firing Menechino does jack squat, personally.  But its a start.  Tony is the one that really needs to go.  It starts at the top and going back to last season, we now have a full season sample of this team being around .500 in the worst division in baseball.  NOT GOOD. 

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I understand that firing Menechino won't solve all the problems this team has but at least it might send a message to the players that hey your crappy performance just caused a guy to lose his job. Like so many here have mentioned the team looks incredibly lackadaisical and something has to be done to shake things up. 

 

 

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