Rick Hahn - Mastermind of Failure

[Balta1701]

10 minutes ago, mmmmmbeeer said:

I don't think we can really evaluate Hahn's performance without knowing how much pull he/TLR actually have.  

Do I think Rick wanted to resign Leury?  No.

Do I think Rick wanted to spend his budget on the bullpen?  No.

Do I think Rick wants Sosa in the minors right now so we can watch Leury?  No.

There are just too many moves being made this season that clearly show that there's a COMPLETE disconnect between the FO and TLR, Sosa's short stint being example 1A.  Tony loves a bullpen, thus the bullpen pieces.  Tony loves Leury, thus the Leury signing.  Tony pus handedness above all else, thus Gavin, Leury, and Reese taking starts away from guys like Pollock, Vaughn, and Harrison.

All that said, if Hahn has truly been relegated to nothing more than a puppet GM, he should quit.  The fact he remains implies he either has a direct hand in this decisions or he thinks he'll outlast TLR's reign.

I don't know how things break down on these guys other than the Kelly signing where they clearly said "this was TLR", but I will note that "dumping money into relievers" has been a Rick Hahn thing his entire career (Robertson, Colome, Herrera), and signing utility guys and starting them has been a Rick Hahn thing his whole career (Keppinger, Beckham, Bonifacio, Lawrie). So unless he were to have resigned previously to take his hands off this mess - he can't get a pass even if he's being partially overruled. The moves this offseason perfectly fit with his MO.

[caulfield12]

37 minutes ago, JoeC said:

I'm going outside the box and going with Darin Erstad.

Better paid by Nebraska…

[Harold's Leg Lift]

16 minutes ago, mmmmmbeeer said:

I don't think we can really evaluate Hahn's performance without knowing how much pull he/TLR actually have.  

Do I think Rick wanted to resign Leury?  No.

Do I think Rick wanted to spend his budget on the bullpen?  No.

Do I think Rick wants Sosa in the minors right now so we can watch Leury?  No.

There are just too many moves being made this season that clearly show that there's a COMPLETE disconnect between the FO and TLR, Sosa's short stint being example 1A.  Tony loves a bullpen, thus the bullpen pieces.  Tony loves Leury, thus the Leury signing.  Tony pus handedness above all else, thus Gavin, Leury, and Reese taking starts away from guys like Pollock, Vaughn, and Harrison.

All that said, if Hahn has truly been relegated to nothing more than a puppet GM, he should quit.  The fact he remains implies he either has a direct hand in this decisions or he thinks he'll outlast TLR's reign.

Not long ago Kenny Williams was blamed for all the bad moves.  Teflon Hahn 

[Donny Lucy's Avocado Farm]

this thread would be a massive buzzkill, if there even was a buzz left to kill.

Also - why do we assume JR gives a shit and wants to change literally anything? I honestly don't think he cares what fans think. In his eyes, TLR is finishing up his "Hall of Fame baseball person" career in the dugout. Wins and loses probably don't matter to JR's "KPIs" assessing the team. 

 

 

[Harry Chappas]

11 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

oh puleeze dude. What part of Hahn's history says he didn't want to waste big money on the bullpen? What part of Hahn's history as a GM signing free agents tells you that he was held hostage by La Russa?

Hahn admitted that he and Williams agreed that Kimbrel was the best option last year ......that tells me everything I need to know.  He also signed Jeff Keppinger to an overpriced deal again wasted money on utility players.

 

 

[The Kids Can Play]

32 minutes ago, T R U said:

What realistically needs to happen to get change with the Manager and Front Office in this organization?

Missing the playoffs? A Losing season?

I really don't know, and that's sad.

Definitely missing the playoffs and a losing season as you suggested would definitely help. However the biggest factor that would wake up JR for him to make a FO and manager change is to experience a lack of fan support and attendance! A strong and loud message from the fans where the in-park attendance drops off dramatically! It would be poetic justice for the fans to let JR see under 10K or even better 5K in the park! Can you imagine the embarrassment of only 5K fans on a Saturday and Sunday weekend? Let him feel it on his bottom line, when the sales in the park for food, drink, alcohol and merchandise are all affected drastically, not to mention the horrible empty park look! I realize this probably won't happen, based on the fierce loyal fans...but it should happen! This is the only guaranteed way to affect major change. The fans must make this arrogant and clueless owner lose money and feel it on his bottom line profit. It's either this, JR passes away, or one of the sons takes over the team and has full control. 

[mmmmmbeeer]

3 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

I don't know how things break down on these guys 

That's all I'm saying....we don't know.  Y'all can hammer away on what a failure Rick Hahn is and I've got absolutely no issue with the choice to do so.  I'm just saying, in my opinion, this org is anything BUT transparent and I find it wholly believable that Hahn has been relegated to puppet status.

[southsider2k5]

1 minute ago, Harry Chappas said:

Hahn admitted that he and Williams agreed that Kimbrel was the best option last year ......that tells me everything I need to know.  He also signed Jeff Keppinger to an overpriced deal again wasted money on utility players.

 

 

It would have been interesting to have a manager who was willing to use both Hendriks and Kimbrel in various situations to see if he could actually maximize having two closers at the back of the been.  Instead Tony just kept doing the same thing day after day, and watching it fail day after day.

[mmmmmbeeer]

2 minutes ago, Harry Chappas said:

Hahn admitted that he and Williams agreed that Kimbrel was the best option last year ......that tells me everything I need to know.  He also signed Jeff Keppinger to an overpriced deal again wasted money on utility players.

 

 

I mean, most fans, even on this board, were pretty damn ecstatic when that Kimbrel deal went down.  

[Kyyle23]

19 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said:

I don't want a rebuild every two years. That's a gross mischaracterization. 

It's been obvious since last season that this one was fucked. 

Because I think that players should not be allowed to walk for nothing that means I want a constant rebuild? 

I'd rather players get paid, but if ownership puts handcuffs on the FO with regard to FA contracts, it makes windows very short.

Most of the pessimism comes from not trusting ownership to hire the right person. 

It's not a gross mischaracterization, it is something you said on this website, something that you would prefer 

[bmags]

13 minutes ago, chitownsportsfan said:

hahn is the type of executive that by being "risk averse" actually exposes himself and the club to more risk. there was ALWAYS risk of a big regression from some of the core position players. That's why you GO GET MORE GOOD PLAYERS rather than just hoping and wishing the guys you got are good enough to get you a one run lead, which as we've seen over and over this year, isn't good enough, no matter how many bullpen arms you bring in.

Totally this.

[caulfield12]

19 minutes ago, bmags said:

Chicago Bears resume lol

Are they even Chicago or Milwaukee’s team?

There’s not even one state in the US that has more Sox fans…like the Cubs and Braves used to have due to the wide-reaching nature of WGN and TBS/TNT.

[bmags]

9 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

I don't know how things break down on these guys other than the Kelly signing where they clearly said "this was TLR", but I will note that "dumping money into relievers" has been a Rick Hahn thing his entire career (Robertson, Colome, Herrera), and signing utility guys and starting them has been a Rick Hahn thing his whole career (Keppinger, Beckham, Bonifacio, Lawrie). So unless he were to have resigned previously to take his hands off this mess - he can't get a pass even if he's being partially overruled. The moves this offseason perfectly fit with his MO.

Soria too.

[Jack Parkman]

4 minutes ago, Kyyle23 said:

It's not a gross mischaracterization, it is something you said on this website, something that you would prefer 

I'm willing to close windows a bit early to make sure that nobody walks for nothing.  This is due to ownership's constraints on FA contracts. They don't get to pretend they're a large market team and go cheap on player contracts. I'm just working with Jerry's contract restrictions. 

Edited July 6, 2022 by Jack Parkman

[The Kids Can Play]

3 minutes ago, Donny Lucy's Avocado Farm said:

this thread would be a massive buzzkill, if there even was a buzz left to kill.

Also - why do we assume JR gives a shit and wants to change literally anything? I honestly don't think he cares what fans think. In his eyes, TLR is finishing up his "Hall of Fame baseball person" career in the dugout. Wins and loses probably don't matter to JR's "KPIs" assessing the team. 

 

 

You are right, JR doesn't give a shit about the fans. All he cares about his his bottom line profit. Yet if the attendance dropped drastically and a huge loss in ballpark food, drinks, alcohol and merchandise happened, then maybe that might get this arrogant and loser owner to care.

[bmags]

1 minute ago, caulfield12 said:

Are they even Chicago or Milwaukee’s team?

There’s not even one state in the US that has more Sox fans…like the Cubs and Braves used to have due to the wide-reaching nature of WGN and TBS/TNT.

Not related. At all. Don't respond to this, you will not make it related by sheer posting will.

[hankchifan]

2 hours ago, Snopek said:

Hahn seems like the Renteria of GMs. Fine with handling the rebuilding teams, but absolutely not who you want handling the contending teams.

Looking forward to Jerry brining in the TLR equivalent to replace Hahn in the offseason. 

Hopefully, JR does not bring in one of his octogenerians from his board of directors,

[Jack Parkman]

20 minutes ago, chitownsportsfan said:

hahn is the type of executive that by being "risk averse" actually exposes himself and the club to more risk. there was ALWAYS risk of a big regression from some of the core position players. That's why you GO GET MORE GOOD PLAYERS rather than just hoping and wishing the guys you got are good enough to get you a one run lead, which as we've seen over and over this year, isn't good enough, no matter how many bullpen arms you bring in.

That's Jerry, not Hahn. Hahn is working with what Jerry gives him. Hahn still sucks at his job and needs to be better at finding those diamonds in the coal mine. 

Hahn doesn't deserve the benefit of the doubt on a lot of shit, but Jerry puts the handcuffs on and Hahn pretty much acknowledged that in his interview last week. I'm not trying to absolve Hahn of any accountability, but let's put the blame for that where it belongs. 

That being said, Hahn still deserves to be fired. 

Edited July 6, 2022 by Jack Parkman

[hankchifan]

12 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

I don't know how things break down on these guys other than the Kelly signing where they clearly said "this was TLR", but I will note that "dumping money into relievers" has been a Rick Hahn thing his entire career (Robertson, Colome, Herrera), and signing utility guys and starting them has been a Rick Hahn thing his whole career (Keppinger, Beckham, Bonifacio, Lawrie). So unless he were to have resigned previously to take his hands off this mess - he can't get a pass even if he's being partially overruled. The moves this offseason perfectly fit with his MO.

You know you have a problem when Hahn recent signings have been Big Energy, Leury Legend, Pollock, Kelly, VV. With no quality lefty outfielder in sight, which is our biggest need.  Only good signing lately has been Cueto.

[Harry Chappas]

6 minutes ago, mmmmmbeeer said:

I mean, most fans, even on this board, were pretty damn ecstatic when that Kimbrel deal went down.  

I was a huge fan of the trade.  

My point was that Hahn and Williams like spending on bullpens as much or more so than LaRussa.

Kimbrel has shown this year that the second half of last year was probably not a fluke but the no pressure first half with the cubs was.

I'm a big Pollock fan so it kind of worked out in my mind although I had hope for Madrigal.

[hankchifan]

9 minutes ago, bmags said:

Soria too.

Add Kimbrel to the list..

[Balta1701]

4 minutes ago, hankchifan said:

You know you have a problem when Hahn recent signings have been Big Energy, Leury Legend, Pollock, Kelly, VV. With no quality lefty outfielder in sight, which is our biggest need.  Only good signing lately has been Cueto.

Graveman has turned out pretty well also and he will probably be a top name on the trade market this month.

[southsider2k5]

30 minutes ago, chitownsportsfan said:

he's the GM. If he doesn't like not having full power he can resign today. this line of "oh it's not hahn it's _____" is a dead end. And hahn is the guy that decided it was better to sign a million bullpen arms then improve 2B and RF enough for leads to hold up. 

hahn can fuck off. he did a good job with the rebuild, he's utterly failed to build on that foundation and now the entire building is on the verge of collapse.

I know people say that, but it might not be as easy as you want it to be.  Remember when Kenny Williams wanted to interview for a promotion with Toronto, Jerry wouldn't let him.  He required him to serve out his contract before he could interview, and by that time the opportunity was gone.  No idea what Hahn's deal looks like, but his opportunities are probably serve out his contract, or make a scene quitting midseason, and make himself look poisonous for quitting on his team during a season like Ozzie did.  Even if he did quit, I am pretty sure he wouldn't be able to take another similar job in MLB until his original deal expired.  Is it worth all of that reputation and professional risk? 

[hankchifan]

1 minute ago, Balta1701 said:

Graveman has turned out pretty well also and he will probably be a top name on the trade market this month.

Yes you are right, forgot about Graveman.

[chitownsportsfan]

2 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

I know people say that, but it might not be as easy as you want it to be.  Remember when Kenny Williams wanted to interview for a promotion with Toronto, Jerry wouldn't let him.  He required him to serve out his contract before he could interview, and by that time the opportunity was gone.  No idea what Hahn's deal looks like, but his opportunities are probably serve out his contract, or make a scene quitting midseason, and make himself look poisonous for quitting on his team during a season like Ozzie did.  Even if he did quit, I am pretty sure he wouldn't be able to take another similar job in MLB until his original deal expired.  Is it worth all of that reputation and professional risk? 

That's a lot of words to say (if true) Hahn is a coward who would rather cash a check than enjoy his vision of a winning baseball team. It's never been a position I find defensible from a fan's POV, although perhaps Hahn's kids appreciate it.

Edited July 6, 2022 by chitownsportsfan