Chicago White Sox Posted July 16, 2022 Share Posted July 16, 2022 7 minutes ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said: It doesn’t matter if Cueto was part of the original plan or not. Bottom line is he was signed in the offseason and he’s been just as good as Gausman for far less money. I didn’t see people salivating for Schwarber last offseason. That’s simply Monday morning quarterbacking. Cueto has not been as good as Guasman, that’s just a laughable statement. As for Schwarber, there was definitely people salivating for him. My man @fathom was all for signing him amongst others. I’ll admit I didn’t push hard for him, but I held out hope for Conforto until it became public about his injury. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted July 16, 2022 Share Posted July 16, 2022 2 hours ago, Chicago White Sox said: And yet neither are improvements vs what we got last year. Exactly. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Polar Bear Posted July 16, 2022 Share Posted July 16, 2022 Joe Kelly (-0.8 bWAR): C- AJ Pollock (0.0 bWAR) C Vince Velasquez (0.0 bWAR): D Josh Harrison (1.1 bWAR): C Reese McGuire (0.6 bWAR): D Kendall Graveman (1.0 bWAR) A Johnny Cueto (2.3 bWAR): A++ Leury Garcia: F-------- (0, worst signing of this decade) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted July 16, 2022 Share Posted July 16, 2022 Pollock is clearly an F 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JUSTgottaBELIEVE Posted July 16, 2022 Author Share Posted July 16, 2022 4 hours ago, Chicago White Sox said: And yet neither are improvements vs what we got last year. They’re better this year than the guys in those positions last year. Again, if we are going to compare to last year, Lynn, Moncada, Grandal, and Giolito are far bigger problems as they are nowhere near last season’s level. Heck, even if they were just slightly worse than last year this is a 50+ win team today that’s running away with the division. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted July 16, 2022 Share Posted July 16, 2022 18 minutes ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said: They’re better this year than the guys in those positions last year. Again, if we are going to compare to last year, Lynn, Moncada, Grandal, and Giolito are far bigger problems as they are nowhere near last season’s level. Heck, even if they were just slightly worse than last year this is a 50+ win team today that’s running away with the division. You continue to move the goalposts. The question is how do you grade the off-season, not who is most responsible for the shitty results this year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JUSTgottaBELIEVE Posted July 16, 2022 Author Share Posted July 16, 2022 30 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said: You continue to move the goalposts. The question is how do you grade the off-season, not who is most responsible for the shitty results this year. Who were all these obvious upgrades you speak of? You mentioned Gausman and Schwarber. Those two alone cost $40M this season and a heck of a lot more after this season. And that’s if you somehow pick two of the top performing free agents from last offseason, which no one does. Even with those two on the roster this season, the team is only marginally better. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
South Side Hit Men Posted July 16, 2022 Share Posted July 16, 2022 Rich Hahn's Offseason F 11/3 Pass on QO for Rodon F 11/7 Picked up Kimbrel Club Option B 11/30 Signed Kevin Graveman $24M/3 Yrs D 12/1 Signed Leury Garcia $16.5M / 3 Yrs (C for a 1-2 year deal, D because 3 year deal) B 1/25 Signed Oscar Colas for $2.7M C 3/14 Signed Vince Velasquez for $3.0M F 3/14 Signed Joe Kelly $17M / 2 yrs (or $25.5M / 3 Yrs - Sox Option) D 3/15 Signed Josh Harrison $5.5M / 1 yr (or $9.5M / 2 Yrs - Sox Option) D 3/29 Acquired Adam Haseley from Philadelphia for McKinley Moore D 4/1 Acquired AJ Pollock for Craig Kimbrel C 4/3 Acquired Reese McGuire for Zack Collins 4/8 = Opening Day GPA D 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JUSTgottaBELIEVE Posted July 16, 2022 Author Share Posted July 16, 2022 1 minute ago, South Side Hit Men said: Rich Hahn's Offseason F 11/3 Pass on QO for Rodon F 11/7 Picked up Kimbrel Club Option B 11/30 Signed Kevin Graveman $24M/3 Yrs D 12/1 Signed Leury Garcia $16.5M / 3 Yrs (C for a 1-2 year deal, D because 3 year deal) B 1/25 Signed Oscar Colas for $2.7M C 3/14 Signed Vince Velasquez for $3.0M F 3/14 Signed Joe Kelly $17M / 2 yrs (or $25.5M / 3 Yrs - Sox Option) D 3/15 Signed Josh Harrison $5.5M / 1 yr (or $9.5M / 2 Yrs - Sox Option) D 3/29 Acquired Adam Haseley from Philadelphia for McKinley Moore D 4/1 Acquired AJ Pollock for Craig Kimbrel C 4/3 Acquired Reese McGuire for Zack Collins 4/8 = Opening Day GPA D Where’s Cueto? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
South Side Hit Men Posted July 16, 2022 Share Posted July 16, 2022 (edited) 8 minutes ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said: Where’s Cueto? Signed on Opening Day. Grades and discussion for the offseason / Opening Day Roster. Edited July 16, 2022 by South Side Hit Men 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JUSTgottaBELIEVE Posted July 16, 2022 Author Share Posted July 16, 2022 1 minute ago, South Side Hit Men said: Signed on Opening Day. Grades and discussion is for the offseason / Opening Day Roster. https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2022/04/white-sox-sign-johnny-cueto-to-minor-league-deal.html Had a deal in place well before opening day. Disqualifying Cueto from this list is funny. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
South Side Hit Men Posted July 16, 2022 Share Posted July 16, 2022 3 minutes ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said: https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2022/04/white-sox-sign-johnny-cueto-to-minor-league-deal.html Had a deal in place well before opening day. Disqualifying Cueto from this list is funny. He was signed on a minor league deal, wasn't even on the 40 man roster during the offseason. I go by the Chicago White Sox Website, don't give a rats ass about Trade Rumors Dot Com. Feel free to make your own list. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chisoxt Posted July 16, 2022 Share Posted July 16, 2022 (edited) 7 hours ago, TheFutureIsNear said: While I don’t want to make excuses for Hahn as I do think he has done a poor job post rebuild…but can someone point to the available free agents they would have signed that are looking good right now? You can point to a maybe 2/3 I think, but there are also more than a few guys this board (myself included) were clamoring for that would look like awful signings we’d be killing Hahn for. This is a good point- the two acquisitions I was salivating over in the past couple of years (Semien and Springer) haven’t been that great. I think the overarching answer here is better player development on our part so you’re not overpaying for mediocre replacement level talent. It also grinds my ass that the Sox cut loose the outfielder (to SF) that could have helped… I guess being able to scout and develop their own players would be a start Edited July 16, 2022 by chisoxt 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JUSTgottaBELIEVE Posted July 16, 2022 Author Share Posted July 16, 2022 35 minutes ago, South Side Hit Men said: He was signed on a minor league deal, wasn't even on the 40 man roster during the offseason. I go by the Chicago White Sox Website, don't give a rats ass about Trade Rumors Dot Com. Feel free to make your own list. I did. I started this thread. You can take your list to a different thread if you’d like. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarava Posted July 16, 2022 Share Posted July 16, 2022 17 minutes ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said: I did. I started this thread. You can take your list to a different thread if you’d like. Are you Rick Hahn on a burner account? I was a fan of the guy...but look what he's done to this rebuild. It's truly awful, man. You can spin crap however you want. All this talent and this team is sitting here 1 game before the allstar break as an under .500 team. Holes like right field should of been filled years ago. Bryce Harper was there and couldn't find a team to sign him. 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
South Side Hit Men Posted July 16, 2022 Share Posted July 16, 2022 30 minutes ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said: I did. I started this thread. You can take your list to a different thread if you’d like. How is paying Pollock $26M for a literal 0.0 AAAA performance not an F or D? My list is also comprehensive. Where is Hahn's non QO offer to Rodon not on your list? Where is Free Agent signing Leury Garcia on your list? Both decisions impacted the Opening Day Roster, aka, were made in the "offseason". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JUSTgottaBELIEVE Posted July 16, 2022 Author Share Posted July 16, 2022 17 minutes ago, Sarava said: Are you Rick Hahn on a burner account? I was a fan of the guy...but look what he's done to this rebuild. It's truly awful, man. You can spin crap however you want. All this talent and this team is sitting here 1 game before the allstar break as an under .500 team. Holes like right field should of been filled years ago. Bryce Harper was there and couldn't find a team to sign him. I agree they should have signed Harper but that’s not on Hahn. That’s on Jerry. Let’s be honest, Jerry would never sign off on a mega deal like Harper or Machado or Betts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JUSTgottaBELIEVE Posted July 16, 2022 Author Share Posted July 16, 2022 1 minute ago, South Side Hit Men said: How is paying Pollock $26M for a literal 0.0 AAAA performance not an F or D? My list is also comprehensive. Where is Hahn's non QO offer to Rodon not on your list? Where is Free Agent signing Leury Garcia on your list? Both decisions impacted the Opening Day Roster, aka, were made in the "offseason". As I said in the previous post, feel free to start your “comprehensive” list that omits Cueto in another thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chisoxt Posted July 16, 2022 Share Posted July 16, 2022 3 minutes ago, South Side Hit Men said: How is paying Pollock $26M for a literal 0.0 AAAA performance not an F or D? My list is also comprehensive. Where is Hahn's non QO offer to Rodon not on your list? Where is Free Agent signing Leury Garcia on your list? Both decisions impacted the Opening Day Roster, aka, were made in the "offseason". At the time, I thought that getting Pollock for Kimbrel was a slam dunk, awesome deal to get out from under the contract to kimbrell… but it also goes to show you how an awful process (acquiring Kimbrell to begin with and yes, I thought it was an awful move at the time) leads to a slippery slope of other bad deals. The fact that it took so long to deal Kimbrel potentially delayed a lot deals that could have helped the club because they had to shed the salary 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
South Side Hit Men Posted July 17, 2022 Share Posted July 17, 2022 2 minutes ago, chisoxt said: At the time, I thought that getting Pollock for Kimbrel was a slam dunk, awesome deal to get out from under the contract to kimbrell… but it also goes to show you how an awful process (acquiring Kimbrell to begin with and yes, I thought it was an awful move at the time) leads to a slippery slope of other bad deals. The fact that it took so long to deal Kimbrel potentially delayed a lot deals that could have helped the club because they had to shed the salary But the trade didn't not tie Hahn's hands. He had available $18M more to spend, until his offseason decision to pick up Kimbrel's option. It was completely asinine since: They had zero intention of keeping him unless they couldn't find a taker, even for a marginal overpriced old player they don't need. At $18M, the Dodgers were literally the lone team willing and able to take on that salary and in need of a closer. The Mets have Diaz, the Yankees Bullpen is stacked, Atlanta signed Jensen and SD, SF and Boston weren't adding to payroll. The Sox were forced to eat an even more expensive contract for a fourth LF that Hahn tried to con fans and perhaps La Russa into being an option in Right Field. Pollock has played since 2012, and had exactly one start in RF heading into season number 11. Kimbrel's decision impacted the offseason far more than any other signing. It tied up 10% of the entire payroll, even after the major payroll increase authorized by Jerry to 7th highest in MLB. It was made solely to appease Hahn's fragile ego, doubling down on his fiasco "best trade deadline idea" in July, in an attempt to salvage something, anything, for giving up a reliver who pitched great the final two months with the Cubs, and a costly failed 3rd overall draft pick failure. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaliSoxFanViaSWside Posted July 17, 2022 Share Posted July 17, 2022 13 hours ago, MackowiakYakYak said: Only Anderson could've been reasonably predicted to be good this season. Wacha and Perez were signed as lottery ticket 5th starters and we got our version of that by signing VV and Cueto. Cueto worked out of those two lottery tickets and that is great. If you sign Anderson then do you end up getting Cueto to sign with the team for a minor league tryout? The depth SP issue is complicated because who knows where underperforming guys want to sign to revive their careers. More Quad-A SPs should've been acquired, but getting a single gem out of your SP depth is better than expected most years. Cueto was a Hahn desperation move. He signed 2 days after the Lynn injury so he is Lynn's replacement .Sox got lucky he has done so well, Velasquez $3M signed 2 days after Perez was signed by the Rangers. Perhaps Hahn only offered Perez $3M like he did to VV. Perez says no thank you and gets an extra 1M from the Rangers. The non QO to Rodon sucked since we really needed someone to replace him. Hahn made it easier for any team to sign him by not giving him the QO. By giving him a QO it means teams would have offered him less money because we'd have to get reimbursed with a draft pick and thus made it easier for the Sox to resign him which also is turning out to be a big mistake. Cueto didn't replace Rodon, he replaced Lynn. If you don't pick up Kimbrel's option you don't have to pay 34 yr old Pollock this year and possibly next yr. That money could've been used as part of the money to re sign Rodon since his cost now is likely cheaper because of the QO. The QO and picking up the Kimbrel options were the 1st things done in the offseason. 2 moves that changed the entire complexion of the offseason. Even if they decide not to resign Rodon how they spent the money could've been drastically different. Sox knew that signing Cueto for $4.2 was going to cost them only a prorated rate of $3.32 M because of the May15th opt out in Cueto's deal. Throw another $1 at Perez and it's possible you get both Cueto and Perez instead of VV. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted July 17, 2022 Share Posted July 17, 2022 15 hours ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said: Time to take a look at the offseason acquisitions as we approach the All Star Break. Despite popular belief, they haven’t been bad and overall I’d give Hahn a B- on these acquisitions. Joe Kelly (-0.8 bWAR): F No way to sugarcoat it. He’s been either hurt or bad for most of the season. The stuff is there but the control isn’t. Hopefully he finds his control in the second half. AJ Pollock (0.0 bWAR) C- He’s been surprisingly healthy but the power is lacking this season. Hard to grade much lower considering they were able to dump Kimbrel in this deal. Vince Velasquez (0.0 bWAR): C He was a cheap signing and been about what you’d expect. Ate some valuable innings early in the season when it was desperately needed. Josh Harrison (1.1 bWAR): B- Started the season slow at the plate but coming on of late. Has been great defensively all season and provided much needed versatility when everyone was hurt. Has solidified 2b position for this team. Reese McGuire (0.6 bWAR): B Has been the perfect backup catcher. Plays solid defense and calls a good game behind the plate. An ideal postseason catcher due to his plus D. Kendall Graveman (1.0 bWAR) A- Has been exactly what the Sox needed from a setup guy. He’s even closed games in a pinch. Basically, he’s been everything that Kimbrel should have been. Johnny Cueto (2.3 bWAR): A+ Most fans here disliked this signing at the time but he’s been terrific. Perhaps the best signing of ANY team last offseason. He’s filled in for Rodon’s starting slot at a fraction of the cost. The guy is an absolute bulldog and winner. This is sad. Who fucking cares? The Sox are supposed to be in the middle of their World Series window and they’ve struggled to stay at .500 and we are nearing the end of July. Why are we grading Rick Hahn for his offseason? How about we grade him on the team he’s build in 2022? What grade do you give that? 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted July 17, 2022 Share Posted July 17, 2022 23 minutes ago, Tony said: This is sad. Who fucking cares? The Sox are supposed to be in the middle of their World Series window and they’ve struggled to stay at .500 and we are nearing the end of July. Why are we grading Rick Hahn for his offseason? How about we grade him on the team he’s build in 2022? What grade do you give that? F 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chimpton Posted July 17, 2022 Share Posted July 17, 2022 Can't agree with those giving McGuire a B or C grading, he was brought in as back up to Grandal but is now back up to Zavala who was back up to the back up . McGuire is ok but just that ok and you wouldn't want him behind the plate regularly. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JUSTgottaBELIEVE Posted July 17, 2022 Author Share Posted July 17, 2022 6 hours ago, Tony said: This is sad. Who fucking cares? The Sox are supposed to be in the middle of their World Series window and they’ve struggled to stay at .500 and we are nearing the end of July. Why are we grading Rick Hahn for his offseason? How about we grade him on the team he’s build in 2022? What grade do you give that? Because we already have many other threads declaring the season a failure. Didn’t see the need for another. But feel free to start one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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