Old Sock Drawer, ex Sox player discussion

[Tony]

2 hours ago, Jerksticks said:

Right but it would have destroyed his FA market.  Just because you can, doesn’t always mean you should.  I think that applies here, as has been discussed plenty. 

If I’m reading this correctly, you not only think the Sox didn’t offer the QO to Rodon because they were doing him a favor in the FA market, AND you’re OK with that as a Sox fan?

[Quin]

2 hours ago, Jerksticks said:

Right but it would have destroyed his FA market.  Just because you can, doesn’t always mean you should.  I think that applies here, as has been discussed plenty. 

Ok, and?

Unless Carlos was going to go unsigned into the season, I fail to see the downside for the Sox. Even then, there's still no downside for them, it just would have really sucked for Carlos.

[Tony]

2 hours ago, vilehoopster said:

I am really surprised people bemoaning the Sox not outbidding SF for Rodin. Are our memories this short? He was outstanding last year then he wore down. A total non-factor after August 1st. A total non-factor after August and that was his best/ healthiest year in five years, since 2016. 

Do you really think the Sox should have gone over $44 million for two years for a guy who was, only part way healthy, once in the last five years? Again are our memories this short? Sure he was great that last start. We’ve seen that before too.

I could be completely wrong, but I would be shocked if Rodon wins 22 games for SF over the length of that contract, shocked. 

Or maybe, just maybe, Carlos Rodon had pitched 34 Innings in 2019 and 7.2 innings in 2020…meaning Rodon reaching 150 IP in 2021 was always going to be a stretch. 

Carlos is on a short term contract and is 29. He still has another large contract in his career if he is successful with the Giants. 
 

Furthermore, if the Sox offered the QO, his value is hurt in the FA market, and I’d be surprised if that 2/44 offer is even out there. He could have accepted the offer or the Sox could have signed him to a 2/40 type deal?

Given that it’s just money at that point, and the Sox decided to spend it on guys like Vince Velazquez, Josh Harrison and Joe Kelly, while having fairly massive holes in their current rotation….seems like a miss. 

Lastly, I’m going to judge the success of Rodon off a little more than just W’s, but that’s just me. 

[Jerksticks]

33 minutes ago, Tony said:

If I’m reading this correctly, you not only think the Sox didn’t offer the QO to Rodon because they were doing him a favor in the FA market, AND you’re OK with that as a Sox fan?

Am I okay with integrity?

[Tony]

39 minutes ago, Jerksticks said:

Am I okay with integrity?

You can feel any way you want. 

I can disagree with it, but it doesn’t mean you can’t do it. 

You call it “integrity”

I call it awful business. But given the track record of this franchise, it checks out. Like when the Sox couldn’t agree with Lucas Giolito, you know, the Opening Day starter that’s actually on the team, over 50k. 50,000 thousand dollars. 

But please, tell me more about the “integrity” of this franchise. Go on..

[Stinky Stanky]

On 4/9/2022 at 9:31 PM, tray said:

Hahn doubling down on  Kimbrel for 16 Mil  is even more maddening when considering what Rodon could have meant to our rotation.

 

But, but, but, if Hahn didn't double down, it would mean that he mucked up in the first place and GM's don't ever do that, well hardly ever.

[CentralChamps21]

9 hours ago, Tony said:

Or maybe, just maybe, Carlos Rodon had pitched 34 Innings in 2019 and 7.2 innings in 2020…meaning Rodon reaching 150 IP in 2021 was always going to be a stretch. 

Carlos is on a short term contract and is 29. He still has another large contract in his career if he is successful with the Giants. 
 

Furthermore, if the Sox offered the QO, his value is hurt in the FA market, and I’d be surprised if that 2/44 offer is even out there. He could have accepted the offer or the Sox could have signed him to a 2/40 type deal?

Given that it’s just money at that point, and the Sox decided to spend it on guys like Vince Velazquez, Josh Harrison and Joe Kelly, while having fairly massive holes in their current rotation….seems like a miss. 

Lastly, I’m going to judge the success of Rodon off a little more than just W’s, but that’s just me. 

He 100% should have received the QO. Wouldn't have guaranteed him 2 years if he refused it though. Best I would have done is a vesting option for the 2nd year. If someone else still offers him 2 years guaranteed after the QO, then I don't put that on the Sox for not matching it.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

12 hours ago, Jerksticks said:

Right but it would have destroyed his FA market.  Just because you can, doesn’t always mean you should.  I think that applies here, as has been discussed plenty. 

It's a sweet idea but just totally made up by you. It's a theory. I have no idea why they would do that. Somebody in the front office is just a nice guy and really doesn't care that many would think it makes him look stupid. After all he's an MLB GM with a barren farm system who can easily afford to give up draft picks and make it easier for any team who could be your competition in the World Series or playoffs to sign one of the best pitchers in baseball .

There is no world where this kind of business practice would be condoned. He's our GM yet with one decision he's making our farm worse and giving our competition a financial break .Sounds like he's working for the competition not the White Sox.

[caulfield12]

7 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

It's a sweet idea but just totally made up by you. It's a theory. I have no idea why they would do that. Somebody in the front office is just a nice guy and really doesn't care that many would think it makes him look stupid. After all he's an MLB GM with a barren farm system who can easily afford to give up draft picks and make it easier for any team who could be your competition in the World Series or playoffs to sign one of the best pitchers in baseball .

There is no world where this kind of business practice would be condoned. He's our GM yet with one decision he's making our farm worse and giving our competition a financial break .Sounds like he's working for the competition not the White Sox.

Not to mention all four divisional rivals give up lesser picks if they sign guys with QO’s attached compared to the White Sox.

If they said they wanted to spend the comparative pick value they just pretty much gave away on more scouts or an improved analytics system, that would be one thing.

One would assume if the stuff was still there that a better way for them to handle his workload could have been developed for 2022-23 to keep him fresh/er for the postseason.

 

Maybe the Indians should apologize to the rest of the division for doing the best job extending young players while still maintaining a bottom 5 MLB payroll.  If they really had integrity, they would be honest with their fans and not give false hope.  Just trade Ramirez and Bieber!

Edited April 11, 2022 by caulfield12

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

2 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

Not to mention all four divisional rivals give up lesser picks if they sign guys with QO’s attached compared to the White Sox.

If they said they wanted to spend the comparative pick value they just pretty much gave away on more scouts or an improved analytics system, that would be one thing.

One would assume if the stuff was still there that a better way for them to handle his workload could have been developed for 2022-23 to keep him fresh/er for the postseason.

It's not exactly a novel idea for baseball minds to have come up with a better way to have handled him in 2021 if winning and the player's health meant anything.

[ptatc]

1 hour ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

It's not exactly a novel idea for baseball minds to have come up with a better way to have handled him in 2021 if winning and the player's health meant anything.

I would qualify this with winning in the playoffs.  He did more than any one could have dreamed of in the regular season. However all of their starters should have been given more rest early due to the previous abbreviated season. It was obvious that none were really ready for the post season.

[southsider2k5]

This is going to be worth tracking.

 

[Jack Parkman]

If Rodon really just hit a wall due to innings last year and his injury issues are truly behind him, Sox done fucked up by not bringing him back. 

If he throws 165+ innings this year, someone is going to give him a huge deal. 

Edited April 11, 2022 by Jack Parkman

[Grindersrule]

20 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said:

If he throws 165+ innings this year, someone is going to give him a huge deal

Does he have an opt out after this year?

[Jack Parkman]

13 minutes ago, Grindersrule said:

Does he have an opt out after this year?

Yes. 

[caulfield12]

54 minutes ago, Grindersrule said:

Does he have an opt out after this year?

SF opened up a lot of salary flexibility this year…he might bolt regardless, but they’re as likely to end up with his as the rest of the field combined, unless someone like Cohen or the Rangers get involved.  Cubs, depending on how this season goes for them.  Red Sox, too.

[Chick Mercedes]

3 hours ago, Jack Parkman said:

If Rodon really just hit a wall due to innings last year and his injury issues are truly behind him, Sox done fucked up by not bringing him back. 

If he throws 165+ innings this year, someone is going to give him a huge deal. 

I just think not signing him was a luxury the White Sox could not afford. Signing him was not the  luxury. Not signing him was the luxury. The Sox were delusional about their situation.

[Chick Mercedes]

7 hours ago, southsider2k5 said:

This is going to be worth tracking.

 

It is. For Now I will take it as a confident indicator of how they project his season to go by virtue of how his current strength has impressed them.

[caulfield12]

16 hours ago, Chick Mercedes said:

It is. For Now I will take it as a confident indicator of how they project his season to go by virtue of how his current strength has impressed them.

Alex Wood also went 86, DeSclafini 74, fwiw…

[Superstar Lamar]

looks like he packed on some pounds in the off season

[Squirmin' for Yermin]

23 hours ago, Jack Parkman said:

If Rodon really just hit a wall due to innings last year and his injury issues are truly behind him, Sox done fucked up by not bringing him back. 

If he throws 165+ innings this year, someone is going to give him a huge deal. 

If he throws 165 innings, he is winning the Cy Young.

 

Luckily he will win the award with us since he will be our trade deadline acquisition. MARK IT DOWN

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

On 4/11/2022 at 11:38 AM, Jack Parkman said:

If Rodon really just hit a wall due to innings last year and his injury issues are truly behind him, Sox done fucked up by not bringing him back. 

If he throws 165+ innings this year, someone is going to give him a huge deal. 

In fairness to Ptatc I will say that no one ever puts injury issues behind them when you have a long history of such things. But conversely guys who are never injured can also start getting injured frequently.

DO I think Rodon has a better chance of injury than Keuchel and any other pitcher . Yes. Does that automatically happen to Rodon before it happens to other pitchers . NO since any player can be injured at any time as we have seen with Moncada , Gio, Pollock, Kelly, Lynn ,Crochet so far.

Do I think Rodon is a better pitcher than 90 % of starting pitchers in baseball right now ? Yes but the question remains how long will his arm hold up and if he is injured in any way how significant will it be and will he be able to pitch in the playoffs? Those are things I think about any elite pitcher who is much older and without arm troubles.

Did you see Gerrit Cole have a meltdown because the opening day ceremonies took too long and delayed his start by 4 minutes. Some pitchers are very meticulous when it comes to routine because they think any deviation from that routine could hurt their performance and their health.

[Chick Mercedes]

I don't actually think his health  concern was a letimate concern for the Sox specifically. For other teams, sure. But  for the Sox, he was a must signing, they HAD to roll the dice considering their starters situation, and that they are going for the ship. There was no choice,  unless they had a backup plan. As we have seen, they did not. I don't know what the problem was. Money?  Dollar bills spent  for guys like Vasquez and Cueto instead seems like way  more of a risky purchase than Carlos Rodon could ever be. Inconceivable.

Edited April 12, 2022 by Chick Mercedes

[wrathofhahn]

On 4/11/2022 at 2:38 PM, Jack Parkman said:

If Rodon really just hit a wall due to innings last year and his injury issues are truly behind him, Sox done fucked up by not bringing him back. 

If he throws 165+ innings this year, someone is going to give him a huge deal. 

That is the issue though isn't it. If he blows out his arm you are on the hook for another year if he performs spectacularly then he opts out.

The issue with Rodon isn't brining him back is that contract is a boras special that is all risk and very little reward. I also have zero faith in rodon ability to stay healthy. He reminds me of Brandon Morrow his arm can't just take the wear and tear as a starter but doesn't want to get paid for relief work. So it's injury rehab injury rehab just hoping to put together one big year so he can sucker someone into signing him to a longterm deal

[SouthSideGeorgia]

Rodon on the mound tonight against the Guardians. Therefore. GO GIANTS!!!