The Kids Can Play Posted August 10, 2022 Share Posted August 10, 2022 (edited) 38 minutes ago, Paulie4Pres said: Moncada is good enough defensively and has shown excellent offensive potential. You have to just hope he can be fixed at the plate. I personally think he can. He's struggling the same way most of these hitters are struggling. It's all approach. And for him, I think he's lacking confidence, too. Adding 3B to the list of holes is just silly. He's so far down the line when it comes to flaws with this team. You sure you have been watching Moncada's at bats closely this year? He is lost at the plate, strikes out constantly swinging at pitches a foot outside the zone, has zero power and hitting under 200. He also has made his share of errors at third and isn't Brooks Robinson at 3rd. Edited August 10, 2022 by The Kids Can Play 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Kids Can Play Posted August 10, 2022 Share Posted August 10, 2022 3 minutes ago, South Side Fireworks Man said: Even if Moncada performs at his career average of .254 .337 .763 he'll still be a disappointment considering what he will be getting paid. But if he continues to under-perform as he has been so far this season he will most definitely be killing the Sox. 100 percent correct! Not only based on being overpaid for his current production, but the expectations of being a former #1 prospect in MLB and the key part of the Chris Sale rebuild trade. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paulie4Pres Posted August 10, 2022 Share Posted August 10, 2022 4 minutes ago, The Kids Can Play said: You sure you have been watching Moncada's at bats closely this year? He is lost at the plate, strikes out constantly swinging at pitches a foot outside the zone, has zero power and hitting under 200. He also has made his share of errors at third and isn't Brooks Robison at 3rd. He has no confidence, and, like most of the hitters on this team, has absolutely no plate approach. The approach is a team-wide problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Kids Can Play Posted August 10, 2022 Share Posted August 10, 2022 Just now, Paulie4Pres said: He has no confidence, and, like most of the hitters on this team, has absolutely no plate approach. The approach is a team-wide problem. We agree 100 percent on that that because it is a team wide problem with plate discipline. However as long as Menechino and LaRussa are here, it will never change. It's been 3 seasons since his 2019 year and he hasn't adjusted or improved. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
South Side Fireworks Man Posted August 10, 2022 Share Posted August 10, 2022 8 minutes ago, Paulie4Pres said: Do you really think the Moncada we have seen at the plate this season is what he truly is? That would also be silly. It doesn't matter what anyone thinks. He has been what he has been. If he's hurt he should be on the IL. If not, he should lose a big chunk of his playing time to others until he straightens himself out at the plate. Is that so unreasonable? He can still be used as a defensive replacement in the meantime. But how many games has he hurt them so far with his under-performance at the plate? If he hits three home runs tonight that would be great. But it wouldn't negate his lack of production in the 65 games he played previously this year. All I'm saying is that from this point on he should have to earn his playing time like anyone else. If he produces, great! If not, try someone else. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
South Side Fireworks Man Posted August 10, 2022 Share Posted August 10, 2022 11 minutes ago, The Kids Can Play said: You sure you have been watching Moncada's at bats closely this year? He is lost at the plate, strikes out constantly swinging at pitches a foot outside the zone, has zero power and hitting under 200. He also has made his share of errors at third and isn't Brooks Robinson at 3rd. One thing I'll admit about Moncada is he may not be Brooks Robinson but he has still been an excellent defensive third baseman even during this current dismal season he's been having. But still, he needs to produce or lose his starting position. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Kids Can Play Posted August 10, 2022 Share Posted August 10, 2022 12 minutes ago, South Side Fireworks Man said: It doesn't matter what anyone thinks. He has been what he has been. If he's hurt he should be on the IL. If not, he should lose a big chunk of his playing time to others until he straightens himself out at the plate. Is that so unreasonable? He can still be used as a defensive replacement in the meantime. But how many games has he hurt them so far with his under-performance at the plate? If he hits three home runs tonight that would be great. But it wouldn't negate his lack of production in the 65 games he played previously this year. All I'm saying is that from this point on he should have to earn his playing time like anyone else. If he produces, great! If not, try someone else. Well said and I totally agree! He should not be entitled to being the regular starter unless he turns it around! If he does turn it around, then great. I don't think anyone on this board doesn't wish Moncada was hitting like he was in 2019. However the fact is, he isn't! The harsh facts of baseball are, it isn't what you did in the past...it's what are you doing for us now! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted August 10, 2022 Share Posted August 10, 2022 46 minutes ago, The Kids Can Play said: There are not the same OPS numbers. Burger is far better. Burger hasn't played enough 3rd base to call him a defensive liability. Give him the numbers of games Moncada got and I'm sure he will improve. You just showed all of us that his career numbers show this season as an aberration. Or were all of the other seasons outside of this season the aberration? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
South Side Fireworks Man Posted August 10, 2022 Share Posted August 10, 2022 44 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said: You just showed all of us that his career numbers show this season as an aberration. Or were all of the other seasons outside of this season the aberration? Looking back at his career numbers, Moncada's 2022 season appears to be an aberration, as does his 2019 season. The problem is we are currently in the midst of his 2022 season. The Sox are supposedly trying to win their division this season and Moncada has been performing like this. They need more production at 3B than what they've been getting from Moncada. If he doesn't produce try someone else at least a few times a week unless they just want to punt away this season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted August 10, 2022 Share Posted August 10, 2022 Just now, South Side Fireworks Man said: Looking back at his career numbers, Moncada's 2022 season appears to be an aberration, as does his 2019 season. The problem is we are currently in the midst of his 2022 season. The Sox are supposedly trying to win their division this season and Moncada has been performing like this. They need more production at 3B than what they've been getting from Moncada. If he doesn't produce try someone else at least a few times a week unless they just want to punt away this season. As of today there is literally no one else unless you want Romy Gonzalez, Leury Garcia or Josh Harrison starting over there on a daily basis. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
South Side Fireworks Man Posted August 10, 2022 Share Posted August 10, 2022 Just now, southsider2k5 said: As of today there is literally no one else unless you want Romy Gonzalez, Leury Garcia or Josh Harrison starting over there on a daily basis. They could have let Burger start there more and pulled him for defense in the late innings. That's what I've been advocating for quite a while. When he's eligible to come back that's an option. Now TA is on the DL but before that they could've tried Sosa there. They could have put Harrison there with Sosa or Romy at 2B. They could've tried to pick up someone before the deadline. They could've tried a lot of things instead of treating Yoan as a sacred cow that can't be replaced or moved no matter what. The real reason of course is they committed too much money to him and now apparently don't want to remove him as the starting third baseman even if only temporarily. If Yoan would just start hitting like his career averages that would solve everything. But they've wasted most of the season waiting for him to produce and so far it has been in vain. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted August 10, 2022 Share Posted August 10, 2022 20 minutes ago, South Side Fireworks Man said: They could have let Burger start there more and pulled him for defense in the late innings. That's what I've been advocating for quite a while. When he's eligible to come back that's an option. Now TA is on the DL but before that they could've tried Sosa there. They could have put Harrison there with Sosa or Romy at 2B. They could've tried to pick up someone before the deadline. They could've tried a lot of things instead of treating Yoan as a sacred cow that can't be replaced or moved no matter what. The real reason of course is they committed too much money to him and now apparently don't want to remove him as the starting third baseman even if only temporarily. If Yoan would just start hitting like his career averages that would solve everything. But they've wasted most of the season waiting for him to produce and so far it has been in vain. It is more like with the rest of the team not really having good options, the defensive drop off was huge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Kids Can Play Posted August 10, 2022 Share Posted August 10, 2022 1 hour ago, southsider2k5 said: You just showed all of us that his career numbers show this season as an aberration. Or were all of the other seasons outside of this season the aberration? No I didn't. What I showed you was Moncada's only great season was 2019. The other three seasons were similar but not even close to 2019. This year is by far his worst, but not an indication it's an aberration, as its just another declining year. However 2019 will never happen again...hence the aberration. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted August 10, 2022 Share Posted August 10, 2022 15 minutes ago, The Kids Can Play said: No I didn't. What I showed you was Moncada's only great season was 2019. The other three seasons were similar but not even close to 2019. This year is by far his worst, but not an indication it's an aberration, as its just another declining year. However 2019 will never happen again...hence the aberration. That is trying to invent a narrative. He has one really good year, one really bad year, and everything else in the middle. Even if you want to believe the Monstars stole all his talent, the assumption that his one bad year is now his normal instead of everything else doesn't even make sense. I mean there is more to indicate a bad season with injuries IS more of an aberration versus it isn't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chetlemonhead Posted August 11, 2022 Share Posted August 11, 2022 On 8/7/2022 at 7:29 PM, CentralChamps21 said: There's 8 guys on this team underperforming. How did you determine that he is the cancer and not any of the other 7? Yea, but there’s not 8 guy’s on this team with his talent/lack of drive or urgency. He’s the one that needs to be made an example of, and I determined that by numerous reports and insider info of his lack of professionalism and work ethic by not making any adjustments. Plus, there’s nothing wrong with trying to get the man’s focus and drive back, by making him prove it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unknown Posted August 11, 2022 Author Share Posted August 11, 2022 This dude K's at least twice a game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted August 11, 2022 Share Posted August 11, 2022 3 minutes ago, Unknown said: This dude K's at least twice a game. I don’t give a shit if he strikes out twice a game, as long as he’s doing damage when he does make contact. Clearly he’s not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Superstar Lamar Posted August 11, 2022 Share Posted August 11, 2022 It's painful watching him play these days. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Kids Can Play Posted August 11, 2022 Share Posted August 11, 2022 14 hours ago, southsider2k5 said: That is trying to invent a narrative. He has one really good year, one really bad year, and everything else in the middle. Even if you want to believe the Monstars stole all his talent, the assumption that his one bad year is now his normal instead of everything else doesn't even make sense. I mean there is more to indicate a bad season with injuries IS more of an aberration versus it isn't. Ok let's go down your way in which you are desperately trying to justify Moncada as a good hitter with power and he will turn it around. Let's throw out his top year (2019) as you suggested and let's also throw out his worst year (2022) and see where the other 4 years average out. This will include 2017, 2018, 2020 and 2021. This way we will be going with your idea of throwing out the high and low, as you determined are the aberrations and taking the other similar 4 years as his real average. Those 4 years, '17, '18, '20 '21 BA .243 HR's 45 SLG % .403 If you call that productive numbers for third base for a former #1 prospect in MLB and the key part of the Chris Sale trade, then I guess you are fine with mediocrity for your Sox team. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snopek Posted August 11, 2022 Share Posted August 11, 2022 3 minutes ago, The Kids Can Play said: Ok let's go down your way in which you are desperately trying to justify Moncada as a good hitter with power and he will turn it around. Let's throw out his top year (2019) as you suggested and let's also throw out his worst year (2022) and see where the other 4 years average out. This will include 2017, 2018, 2020 and 2021. This way we will be going with your idea of throwing out the high and low, as you determined are the aberrations and taking the other similar 4 years as his real average. Those 4 years, '17, '18, '20 '21 BA .243 HR's 45 SLG % .403 If you call that productive numbers for third base for a former #1 prospect in MLB and the key part of the Chris Sale trade, then I guess you are fine with mediocrity for your Sox team. The problem with this is now you’re looking at two years where he’s basically still developing, the year he had covid and then 21. I get that we’re all sick of excuses, but that’s just not a fair assessment of him. Realistically, I think the 21 version of Yoan is probably who he is. And that’s still good! Not #1 prospect good, but those lofty expectations need to be removed from the equation at this point. He’s not that guy. Most aren’t. It is what it is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Kids Can Play Posted August 11, 2022 Share Posted August 11, 2022 1 minute ago, Snopek said: The problem with this is now you’re looking at two years where he’s basically still developing, the year he had covid and then 21. I get that we’re all sick of excuses, but that’s just not a fair assessment of him. Realistically, I think the 21 version of Yoan is probably who he is. And that’s still good! Not #1 prospect good, but those lofty expectations need to be removed from the equation at this point. He’s not that guy. Most aren’t. It is what it is. I agree he isn't that guy. He probably never will be. However we should not remove those #1 prospect expectations from him or that 2019 year expectations. He is one of many reasons this rebuild has failed miserably. I understand he isn't the only one, but he is one of many bad trades and signings. We traded away one of the best pitchers in baseball at the time, long before Sale had all those injuries and as a result, Moncada has been a bust. Btw, if 2021 is the real version of Moncada as you suggest, that is sad. He had a 263 BA, 14 HR's and .412 SLG%. Unless he miraculously turns it around the reminder of the season, he should be traded in the off season. Finally, I disagree with you that assessment of Moncada was unfair. As you said, we are sick of excuses, but you and some others here are still making excuses for him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bad Hombre Posted August 11, 2022 Share Posted August 11, 2022 6 minutes ago, The Kids Can Play said: Unless he miraculously turns it around the reminder of the season, he should be traded in the off season. Who’s trading for him after a disastrous season with that contract to go with it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Kids Can Play Posted August 11, 2022 Share Posted August 11, 2022 2 minutes ago, Bad Hombre said: Who’s trading for him after a disastrous season with that contract to go with it? Oh I don't know, maybe the posters in here who are justify Moncada as this great player who will turn it around. Go ask them! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted August 11, 2022 Share Posted August 11, 2022 51 minutes ago, The Kids Can Play said: Ok let's go down your way in which you are desperately trying to justify Moncada as a good hitter with power and he will turn it around. Let's throw out his top year (2019) as you suggested and let's also throw out his worst year (2022) and see where the other 4 years average out. This will include 2017, 2018, 2020 and 2021. This way we will be going with your idea of throwing out the high and low, as you determined are the aberrations and taking the other similar 4 years as his real average. Those 4 years, '17, '18, '20 '21 BA .243 HR's 45 SLG % .403 If you call that productive numbers for third base for a former #1 prospect in MLB and the key part of the Chris Sale trade, then I guess you are fine with mediocrity for your Sox team. You are really good at putting things into my mouth that were never said. Funny how you threw out both OPS and defense, even though two posts ago OPS was the basis for why Jake Burger should be starting. Why Yoan Moncada is here and how he got here are irrelevant, just as it is for Jake Burger. It is all about who gives us the best chance to win. Looking at TLR era stats like BA and HR doesn't really help that. If you look at a comprehensive stat from this year, Yoan Moncada because he does things other than hit still grades out as a better overall player than Jake Burger (0.6 to -0.1 fWAR) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spumoni Posted August 11, 2022 Share Posted August 11, 2022 (edited) 14 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said: If you look at a comprehensive stat from this year, Yoan Moncada because he does things other than hit still grades out as a better overall player than Jake Burger (0.6 to -0.1 fWAR) To be fair, this is bWAR. If we look at fWAR, Burger actually grades out slightly higher this year (0.2 for Moncada vs 0.3 for Burger). I still agree that his defense is bad enough that putting Burger out there on a regular basis could only be a detriment to the team overall. Edited August 11, 2022 by Spumoni 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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