So is Gavin Sheets for real?

[Timmy U]

9 hours ago, elrockinMT said:

Please stop 

So what's your solution?  Keep them all and have the worst OF defense known to man?  Trade Sheets, the only lefty in their line up?  Trade Eloy?  Move Vaughn to 2b? Currently, the rules don't allow 5 DHs.  I like Abreu, Vaughn, Eloy, and Sheets.  They just don't make sense together on this roster.

[T R U]

Gavin Sheets is not for real and has no place on this team outside of the bench. Hopefully we have someone with a brain hired in the offseason who goes "That guys not an OFer" and we never see him there again. He isn't a better DH or 1B option than what we currently have or will have moving forward.

He is either traded for something more useful to this roster or he is a bench piece.

 

[The Kids Can Play]

10 hours ago, Paulie4Pres said:

Vaughn the full time 1B. Abreu gone. Sheets and Eloy switch off at DH/LF. Then find a real, legit fucking RF and 2B.

You know guys aren't staying healthy, so you can absolutely carry all three of those guys. It would be stupid to trade any of them, because they have more value to the Sox than they do in a trade. But you have to move on from Abreu. He's gonna fall off a cliff any day now. The Cardinals said goodbye to Pujols, the Sox can do it with Abreu. I mean, they let Frank Thomas go, FFS.

This is exactly what we need to do! 

I would also add one more thing  that the Sox should do...and hopefully with the new manager and coaches. They need to tell Eloy if he wants to play more outfield and be less injury prone running the bases, then he needs to spend the off season losing some serious weight and getting his legs more flexible. If he wants to be an outfielder then he needs to prove he is willing to get more in shape and get quicker. He can lose weight and get more flexible without losing power, if he does the proper strength training along with a better diet and more cardio! My god, he is paid millions and that is the least he could do if indeed he is serious about playing in better shape and not being injured so often. Hopefully the new hitting coach next year will also teach him to get that home run swing back and not hit so many grounders.

[Capn12]

Admittedly I didn't read the last few pages, but the fact remains: If Jose Abreu wants to continue to play baseball, he'll be wearing a White Sox uniform. PERIOD.

[flavum]

1 minute ago, Capn12 said:

Admittedly I didn't read the last few pages, but the fact remains: If Jose Abreu wants to continue to play baseball, he'll be wearing a White Sox uniform. PERIOD.

Yes, because it’s on brand with Reinsdorf being a terrible owner. Enjoy the losses. 

[pcq]

Sox have too many DH's to reassign them all somewhere else. Sheets has shown he is worthy of some starts against RHPs. More sensible to leave Grandal behind and trade Burger. Sox need a deep bench ala Dodgers and Yanks because their core is injured half the time. I expect Sheets will stick around under that setup. Moncada will stick at 3B with his good D because he is not very marketable. They need to stop with the infield retreads.

[soxfaninfl]

I often wonder if the Sox haven’t already told Jose they weren’t signing him to another contract. It would help explain his preseason comments and possibly some of the clubhouse problems.

[VAfan]

Gavin Sheets still has less than a full year's worth of ABs.  For the season, he's the ONLY lefty on the Sox who has hit.   Grandal and Moncada are at 68 and 66 wRC+, respectively.  Sheets is at 111.  In the last month, Sheets' OPS is above 1.000.  His wRC+ in August is 187.   

He's still not a full time player, as his splits against lefties is very bad.  

And he's not a right fielder.  

But what are the Sox going to do?  Sheets is a cheap, under control, power hitting lefty who is starting to figure it out after a slow start to the year.  His upside is still pretty strong.  

Ideally, he'd be part of a DH or 1B platoon.  But the Sox also have Abreu, Vaughn, and Eloy, who are best as DH/1B players, and none of them are good platoon candidates.  

So, good luck figuring it out.  Just know that Sheets should be part of the solution because the Sox have NO other lefties hitting even league average.  

*********

Another thread should be -- what do to with Moncada and Grandal?  If I were the Sox, I'd seek salary dump trades for both, getting as much salary relief as possible to get them off the team.  Both might be able to bounce back, so there might be takers.  

Edited August 31, 2022 by VAfan

[zisk]

11 hours ago, flavum said:

You can sell me on a corner outfield platoon or a second base platoon. First base? I want a guy that posts up 150 games. I know…dare to dream.

If they do platoon, you'll have a big bat off the bench every game. I also believe Burger would be a better corner OF than Sheets. He's faster and actually has a good arm.

He would also back up moncada on rest days. 

[Greg Hibbard]

2 hours ago, Timmy U said:

So what's your solution?  Keep them all and have the worst OF defense known to man?  Trade Sheets, the only lefty in their line up?  Trade Eloy?  Move Vaughn to 2b? Currently, the rules don't allow 5 DHs.  I like Abreu, Vaughn, Eloy, and Sheets.  They just don't make sense together on this roster.

I think the solution is that Eloy and Vaughn CAN play left field. No, it's not a great solution, but it allows for you to spread the 650 PAs that three positions will receive (LF, 1B, DH)  among 4 people. 

If Abreu is resigned, three things need to happen:

1) The White Sox need to increase their payroll expectations by the amount they are giving Abreu every year - because that is a choice. It's all monopoly money. I know, I know - JR is a "cheapskate," etc. But we all know that even a luxury tax hit would have literally no impact on the financial health of the organization or JR or anyone. 

2) The White Sox need to swallow Yaz' worthless contract and have him catch in a platoon with nothing else.

3) Abreu needs to sit 30 games every year. Like everyone else does. There were a few stretches where he was struggling where he could have used the time off. 

 

They sign a major league RF and Everyone else has to "fit in" to this:

Abreu: 300 PAs at 1B, 200 PAs at DH = 500 PAs

Vaughn: 1/2 1B when Abreu is DH (175 PAs), 75 PAs at DH, 250 PAs in LF, 50 PAs in RF = 550 PAs

Sheets: 1/2 1B when Abreu is DH (175 PAs), 275 PAs at DH = 450 PAS

Eloy: 400 PAs in LF, 100 PAs at DH = 500 PAs 

Edited August 31, 2022 by Greg Hibbard

[ChiSox59]

1 hour ago, Eminor3rd said:

Keep Abreu, keep Vaughn, and go sign a player that relegates Sheets to “depth in Charlotte.” That shouldn’t be very difficult, honestly.

Eloy needs time to recover so that he doesn’t reinjure himself. Hopefully that happens over the offseason. If he can’t play the OF without getting hurt, he hasn’t shown enough to be rosterable as a pure DH. He needs to keep getting opportunities in LF until he plays himself out of those or he gets replaced by a better player. The latter scenario might need to happen sooner than we want it. But if it does, that’s fine. Eloy can go back to Charlotte and try to climb the ladder again. If he’s as good as we hoped, then we won’t have any problem getting another shot if he can stay on the field. 

There is really no sceneries where retaining AV, Abreu and Eloy is a smart. We’ve seen enough dogshit defense havent we? Let’s get three actual OFs in the OF next season. Definitely agree on doing what we can to relegate Sheets to AAA depth tho! He’s got an option left next season; he’ll get plenty of mlb opportunities regardless. 

Anderson SS, Nimmo RF, Robert CF,  Eloy DH, Vaughn 1B, Moncada 3B, Colas LF, Grandal/Seby C, one of the internal 2B 

BN: Seby/Grandal, Pollock, Engel, Leury 

That should be the goal for the May offensive roster. Sheets can be on the roster until Colas arrives late April. That team is so so so much better defneisfelt in the OF, has more speed, has more lineup balance, has more athleticism. And it really doesn’t require much additions other than to stop playing guys out of position. This entire plan doesn’t work with Pito around, unless you trade AV. 

[South Side Hit Men]

4 hours ago, CentralChamps21 said:

Can we sign him to a contract where he doesn't start playing until May 15?

Why not, it’s in Joe Kelly’s 2023 deal.

[fathom]

Find a way to trade Vaughn and more for Jazz or Lux.  Time for Sox to get more athletic.

[kitekrazy]

3 hours ago, MiddleCoastBias said:

The Dodgers have success because of players like Muncy, Taylor, and Bellinger that they can move all over the diamond, and we're saying we should take up two roster spots to cover 1B. That's great.

They just have superior development.  They can take a released player and make them useful.  With injuries in baseball I do think the full time DH will no longer exist.  

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

Sheets has actually disappointed me this season. It's great he's been so hot lately but he's been a terrible hitter on the road. I was hoping he's be a more consistent power threat like a Schwarber type.

It's great that at home he's been the Sox best hitter and only LHH who has a useful wRC+ but at this point in time the Sox need useful baseball players.

At this point in time there are no easy answers. The Sox have a bunch of semi useful players that are practically worthless in trade

Abreu: Old , expensive ,Free Agent

Grandal: Old ,injured, unproductive, expensive

Pollock: old , unproductive, expensive

Moncada: expensive, offensively unproductive, hurt often

Eloy: Most often injured player on the team, potentially best hitter.

Hendriks : Old, expensive

Kelly: Old, expensive, unproductive

The real question is now when do the Sox stop pretending there is still an open window and begin the purge and will that purge be guided by the hands that have created the most unsuccessful rebuild ever?

What needs to happen: Slash payroll by slashing old unproductive players. Trade, eat salary, do whatever to rid yourself of the old and expensive  . If anyone shows an interest in Pollock, Hendriks, Grandal, Kelly, Diekman you trade them, eat as much money as you can ,get as many young pitchers and hitters as you can for them with speed and defense even low minors guys. Priority is not the return. It's cutting the dead weight. The real question is how bad are the Sox going to become before they realize the window is closed and start the purge.

Abreu is not dead weight but unfortunately under Hahn's hand the Sox now are expensive and suck and Abreu becomes a victim of that. It's really hard for me to say let him walk or retire. Can't afford him unless you can somehow move the immovable objects mentioned above and he accepts a ridiculously low offer around $10M. We will never see a more loyal player to the White Sox organization. That should mean a lot to fans. If I was there, I'd be at the last game of the season just because it could be his last as a Sox player.

AHHH fuck it it's too big of a mess to even attempt to figure out. Best baby steps going forward would be firing Hahn, TLR  and coaches, and KW but we know all that isn't going to happen.

The question of what to do with Sheets is pretty far down the list of shit that has to be addressed.

 

[kitekrazy]

2 hours ago, ScooterMcGuire said:

While I agree, with Vaughn's age and development he is likely to surpass Abreu next year. And Vaughn isn't injury prone. They need to accept the fact that they cannot play a first baseman in the outfield if they want to be competent. As much as I LOVE Abreu and what he brings to the team, I think they need to let him walk. Put Vaughn at first, DH Sheets, go out and find an actual competent outfielder, and I'd even go as far to say try to trade Jimenez. I just don't think the team can trust him to be productive based on his health history. Actually I think it's foolish to. They got Cease out of the Quintana trade. That's a win. So, go and find 2 competent outfielders.

But sits on the bench with sore legs.  I hate that this team is strong in the wrong positions.

Pretty odd that the iron men on this team are the 2 oldest guys.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

17 minutes ago, fathom said:

Find a way to trade Vaughn and more for Jazz or Lux.  Time for Sox to get more athletic.

Yea I could live with that . I'd even accept Sheets at 1st base if you could pull that off and add Nimmo too.

[Eminor3rd]

38 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said:

There is really no sceneries where retaining AV, Abreu and Eloy is a smart. We’ve seen enough dogshit defense havent we? Let’s get three actual OFs in the OF next season. Definitely agree on doing what we can to relegate Sheets to AAA depth tho! He’s got an option left next season; he’ll get plenty of mlb opportunities regardless. 

Anderson SS, Nimmo RF, Robert CF,  Eloy DH, Vaughn 1B, Moncada 3B, Colas LF, Grandal/Seby C, one of the internal 2B 

BN: Seby/Grandal, Pollock, Engel, Leury 

That should be the goal for the May offensive roster. Sheets can be on the roster until Colas arrives late April. That team is so so so much better defneisfelt in the OF, has more speed, has more lineup balance, has more athleticism. And it really doesn’t require much additions other than to stop playing guys out of position. This entire plan doesn’t work with Pito around, unless you trade AV. 

I should caveat this with, Abreu needs to transition to a 50/50 share of DH and 1B with Vaughn in my scenario. Eloy has no trade value, and thus needs to hit enough to keep his glove out there or needs to go, IMO. 

[JoeCredeYes]

13 hours ago, Chicago White Sox said:

I don’t see the point of letting Jose go when he’s our best player and will likely take a hometown discount.  I also think it’s very clear that Eloy needs to be kept and used as DH primarily.  If Sheets can’t return something via trade, then he can be a depth / insurance option, which is nice to have given Eloy’s health record.

Because you can get identical production from Vaughn for nothing, and start slotting players into positions they actually belong in. 

[JoeCredeYes]

13 hours ago, Buehrle>Wood said:

Daily reminder that Abreu is the best position player on the team and its not particularly close.

The tallest midget award, yipee. 

[Buehrle>Wood]

2 minutes ago, JoeCredeYes said:

Because you can get identical production from Vaughn 

But you cant

[JoeCredeYes]

1 minute ago, Buehrle>Wood said:

But you cant

You might want to take a look at their current numbers...

[South Side Hit Men]

Abreu is 30th in fWAR, and he's penalized in that statistic for being a 1B. He is not the problem with the Sox, and he should be back at a reasonable contract if he wants to continue playing.

This wouldn't be a "Konerko deal". Paul was already a non productive player (.669 OPS, -1.5 fWAR) when they gave him his final 2014 contract. There is no comparison between the two situations.

[JoeCredeYes]

7 minutes ago, South Side Hit Men said:

Abreu is 30th in fWAR, and he's penalized in that statistic for being a 1B. He is not the problem with the Sox, and he should be back at a reasonable contract if he wants to continue playing.

This wouldn't be a "Konerko deal". Paul was already a non productive player (.669 OPS, -1.5 fWAR) when they gave him his final 2014 contract. There is no comparison between the two situations.

Andrew Vaughn has 1 less hit than Jose this year with RISP in 49 fewer attempts.  Jose is a huge part of the problem. 

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

This should be the Hahn's conversation with Abreu.

" I suck, you are too good for us. I'm sorry I fucked up the team around you. We now have to get younger and less expensive and hopefully better. We are going to let you explore your options on the Free Agent market. You deserve better and we will truly miss you.