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Is the best outcome the playoffs?


Chick Mercedes
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Make the playoffs or not, your preference?  

43 members have voted

  1. 1. Make the playoffs or not, your preference?

    • Slip into the playoffs under the wire. Roll the dice, anything can happen
      25
    • Let's miss the playoffs to light a fire of comprehensive changes for the entire organization
      18


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I voted miss the playoffs. I want this season over as soon as possible and hopefully everyone fired. 
 

These guys can barely hang with the Royals and Tigers, I’d rather not see them get embarrassed if they snuck in

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99% + probability the lone path toward fundamental change is Jerry is no longer running the show.

Doesn't matter whether Hahn or Tony goes, because Jerry will sign another Hahn and or Tony (cheap, unqualified, bottom perhaps even bizarre candidates) and not make the overall teardown of the organization which has been solely needed for at least a decade.

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I didn't vote because I don't think they will make the playoffs but option 2 is against my White Sox core beliefs, I want them to win every game they play despite their record or circumstances.

That being said, there has to big changes on and off the field, this organization is broken and a mess.

Edited by The Mighty Mite
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There is just no guarantee that substantive organizational change happens if they fail to reach the postseason.  It’s an interesting hypothetical but this is the White Sox org we are talking about.  Slashing payroll and or shifting deck chairs is most likely what we can expect.  As much as I want change, playoff berths are still a rarity around here, and with no real expectation of changes coming, I’ll take playoffs.  

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To me I feel like it doesn’t matter to me.  Which is weird that I don’t 100% care if my team makes the playoffs.

If they do, they likely don’t advance far but it would be fun to see what happens.

If they don’t then they just would get what they deserve and hopefully that means major changes considering the rebuild time and large payroll.

I did vote no playoffs though, because I hated this season and absolutely can’t have any of this nonsense again in 2023

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There is no way to ascertain whether, or not, missing the playoffs would lead to the changes that most of us believe need to be made. However, it seems logical that winning the division would likely diminish the prospect of those changes occurring. Therefore, based upon the probabilities, I'd vote for missing the playoffs.

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4 hours ago, Leonard Zelig said:

Will there really be comprehensive change if they miss the playoffs?  I have doubts. 

SSHM is right. until Reinsdorf is gone, it doesn't really change anything 

edit: I will say this, if they miss the playoffs being such a moderately heavy favorite to win the division, there will be some amount of shame directed their way among their peers, and public shaming is a hell of a motivator 

 

Edited by joejoesox
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15 hours ago, South Side Hit Men said:

99% + probability the lone path toward fundamental change is Jerry is no longer running the show.

Doesn't matter whether Hahn or Tony goes, because Jerry will sign another Hahn and or Tony (cheap, unqualified, bottom perhaps even bizarre candidates) and not make the overall teardown of the organization which has been solely needed for at least a decade.

This.   I don't get the missing the playoffs mentality.   I guess that's the adopted Sox fan mentality.

I'm not in the boat of anything can happen in the playoffs but I think you have to have a habit of winning to make the post season.

Not making the playoffs with hope for changes is like an NFL fan of an 8-8 team that makes the post season getting pissed off because 6-10 would be a better pick in the draft.

Winning needs to be a habit even if it's not the way you wanted it to pan out.

There should have been a major change during the season that so far has worked out for 2 teams.

If you look at the wild card standings I wonder how many of their fans have the attitude well lets miss the playoffs in hopes of major changes?  I wonder how many Padre fans are thinking that?

It's the pissed off fan mentality and nothing more.   There's plenty of knee jerk reactions to go around in this forum.

What you see now isn't really much different in this organization going back to the turn of the century. 

 

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4 hours ago, joejoesox said:

SSHM is right. until Reinsdorf is gone, it doesn't really change anything 

edit: I will say this, if they miss the playoffs being such a moderately heavy favorite to win the division, there will be some amount of shame directed their way among their peers, and public shaming is a hell of a motivator 

 

I'll just say that I had zero faith that George McCaskey would have done what he has done. If ther Bears look like their trajectory is very optimistic, that's also the kind of peer pressure we need. A local example.

 

I do like what Lillian said:

 

Quote

There is no way to ascertain whether, or not, missing the playoffs would lead to the changes that most of us believe need to be made. However, it seems logical that winning the division would likely diminish the prospect of those changes occurring. Therefore, based upon the probabilities, I'd vote for missing the playoffs.

Tempting

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Until JR is no longer in charge, until new individuals with no connection to the "family" are in charge of the baseball side of the operations things will always be done in a manner that seems to literally contradict what the name of the game is...to win. 

JR wants to win, badly, I've met him twice in passing and he seems like a nice person who has done a lot of good from a charitable standpoint.

BUT...

He wants to win HIS WAY, with his ideas of a salary structure, his ideas of what agents he wants the franchise to deal with, his way when it comes to dealing with the media (which like it or not is the bridge between the team and the fan base) and his way when it come to loyalty and accountability.

His "philosophy" has filtered down through the organization because the people in key positions are all loyal to him and have shown an unwillingness to rock the boat. I understand that position certainly but it just reinforces the idea that nothing will really change until he is gone...until then you are simply rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic. 

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11 hours ago, Lip Man 1 said:

Until JR is no longer in charge, until new individuals with no connection to the "family" are in charge of the baseball side of the operations things will always be done in a manner that seems to literally contradict what the name of the game is...to win. 

JR wants to win, badly, I've met him twice in passing and he seems like a nice person who has done a lot of good from a charitable standpoint.

BUT...

He wants to win HIS WAY, with his ideas of a salary structure, his ideas of what agents he wants the franchise to deal with, his way when it comes to dealing with the media (which like it or not is the bridge between the team and the fan base) and his way when it come to loyalty and accountability.

His "philosophy" has filtered down through the organization because the people in key positions are all loyal to him and have shown an unwillingness to rock the boat. I understand that position certainly but it just reinforces the idea that nothing will really change until he is gone...until then you are simply rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic. 

I think that’s true. Absolutely true. However, going back to the Bears example, Tony LaRussa is this year’s Matt Nagy. They have had different careers, but like the Bears had seen, everything outside of the Sox bubble is focused in on TLR as a clown, and like it got through to George McCaskey somehow, it might also get to Jerry. And like Ryan Pace (another oddball operative), Rick Hahn can get caught in the net as well. At least, I hope. Although Hahn is not in Pace’s league as a dysfunctional weirdo. So anyway, you know, George somehow got it right with his new hires (imo).  Maybe Jerry like George both can learn in old age to get out of the way and stop trying to outsmart everyone else.

Edited by Chick Mercedes
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3 hours ago, Chick Mercedes said:

I think that’s true. Absolutely true. However, going back to the Bears example, Tony LaRussa is this year’s Matt Nagy. They have had different careers, but like the Bears had seen, everything outside of the Sox bubble is focused in on TLR as a clown, and like it got through to George McCaskey somehow, it might also get to Jerry. And like Ryan Pace (another oddball operative), Rick Hahn can get caught in the net as well. At least, I hope. Although Hahn is not in Pace’s league as a dysfunctional weirdo. So anyway, you know, George somehow got it right with his new hires (imo).  Maybe Jerry like George both can learn in old age to get out of the way and stop trying to outsmart everyone else.

There just is no reason or evidence to think this will happen. While I agree with the thought, there is no reason aside from pure “hope” that anything significant changes with JR still running the organization. 

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1 hour ago, 35thstreetswarm said:

Wow, only 47% of you root against the White Sox?  Would have thought higher.

Perhaps you are overlooking: "to light a fire of comprehensive changes for the entire organization"

Most believe the scratch off lottery chances of Jerry making the correct hires to replace Hahn and Tony have higher odds than the lotto odds of the Sox winning four postseason series this season against far better teams than they have faced since Tony left.

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First, the whole idea is to make the playoffs and hopefully win a WS.  There is satisfaction and fun in making the playoffs.
Also, if JR is going to replace the FO, he's just as likely to do it with a playoff or winning team, as not.  See his history of his GMs.
And the sure way to make things worse is for Hahn to feel (or perceive) some hard pressure and start making inane, short-term moves; that's much more likely if the Sox miss the playoffs.
Make the playoffs.

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On 9/18/2022 at 7:23 PM, CentralChamps21 said:

I'm not optimistic that missing the playoffs will cause needed changes, so make the playoffs and take your chances.

If Kopech comes back, Cease-Lynn-Kopech-Giolito/Cueto is a rotation that gives you a chance to beat anybody, except maybe the Dodgers.

I’m not optimistic, but I do belive some needed changes would be pushed over the edge, like Cairo possibly in for Tony.  Hahn needs a boost in order to slay s  other sacred cows too, if he is so inclined. It’s the only hope, so I embrace the silver lining.

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1 hour ago, Chick Mercedes said:

I’m not optimistic, but I do belive some needed changes would be pushed over the edge, like Cairo possibly in for Tony.  Hahn needs a boost in order to slay s  other sacred cows too, if he is so inclined. It’s the only hope, so I embrace the silver lining.

Rick Hahn is one of the sacred cows that needs slaying.

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