Davis Martin 2023 Starter?

[CWSpalehoseCWS]

14 hours ago, TheFutureIsNear said:

I’m curious about Jimmy Lambert…any chance he can be stretched back into a starter? His stuff looks legit this year out of the pen. Of course it’s easier to look good in small doses than starting, 

If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it. The 2023 pen is going to have to fight Father Time, and Lambert (along with Lopez) might be the two most reliable arms with any resemblance of upside for this team.

[SouthSideGeorgia]

Even after losing Abreu’s contract, along with I assume Harrison’s team option, the Sox are staring at a heavy payroll in 2023 comparable to this season. You have to consider some cheap alternatives at the position players and maybe even the starters to make it similar. 
 

Anderson, Robert, Jimenez and Moncada have significant pay increases coming up in 2023 ($12.75 million combined), not to mention Cease and Kopech getting a big well-deserved pay bump in their first arbitrations (I’m assuming an increase of about $8 to $10 million between the two). The Sox could save some money (easy to think like Reinsdorf) by not resigning Abreu, and rolling the dice on Vaughn/Sheets at first base, Romy/Sosa/ J. Rodriguez at 2b and possibly Colas in RF. Obviously, Davis Martin may have to be considered the 5th or 6th starter. 
 

I have us right around $170 million next year, losing and not resgining Abreu, Andrus and Cueto. And getting rid of Harrison. That’s losing a lot of talent off a not so good regular season team, and still not being able to do much in free agency. 
 

Davis Martin may be a necessity. We also have potential starters in Reynaldo Lopez or Jimmy Lambert, but not sure we entertain that. 

[GREEDY]

17 hours ago, KrankinSox said:

Tender Gio and trade him.

 

If Giolito is traded in January, can the acquiring team offer him a QO?

 

[ChiSox59]

13 minutes ago, SouthSideGeorgia said:

Even after losing Abreu’s contract, along with I assume Harrison’s team option, the Sox are staring at a heavy payroll in 2023 comparable to this season. You have to consider some cheap alternatives at the position players and maybe even the starters to make it similar. 
 

Anderson, Robert, Jimenez and Moncada have significant pay increases coming up in 2023 ($12.75 million combined), not to mention Cease and Kopech getting a big well-deserved pay bump in their first arbitrations (I’m assuming an increase of about $8 to $10 million between the two). The Sox could save some money (easy to think like Reinsdorf) by not resigning Abreu, and rolling the dice on Vaughn/Sheets at first base, Romy/Sosa/ J. Rodriguez at 2b and possibly Colas in RF. Obviously, Davis Martin may have to be considered the 5th or 6th starter. 
 

I have us right around $170 million next year, losing and not resgining Abreu, Andrus and Cueto. And getting rid of Harrison. That’s losing a lot of talent off a not so good regular season team, and still not being able to do much in free agency. 

Davis Martin may be a necessity. We also have potential starters in Reynaldo Lopez or Jimmy Lambert, but not sure we entertain that. 

Sox should have $25-30M to spend.  Can maybe create another $5-$10M with a few non tenders of guys like Engel, Mendick and Ruiz. 

They should have enough $ to sign a legit LH OF and a 5th SP and stay within $5M or so of their 2022 payroll.  I fully expect them to go internal at 2B.  

Edited September 19, 2022 by ChiSox59

[ChiSox59]

13 minutes ago, GREEDY said:

If Giolito is traded in January, can the acquiring team offer him a QO?

 

Yes. 

I don't understand trading Gio. Gio is a guy that has proven he is both very interested in maximizing earnings and is also a student of the game that cares deeply about his performance.  That is not a guy I am betting against in his final season before reaching free agency.  Trading him at legitimately his lowest value he's been at any point in his White Sox tenure doesn't make any sense.   

[Balta1701]

19 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said:

Sox should have $25-30M to spend.  Can maybe create another $5-$10M with a few non tenders of guys like Engel, Mendick and Ruiz. 

They should have enough $ to sign a legit LH OF and a 5th SP and stay within $5M or so of their 2022 payroll.  I fully expect them to go internal at 2B.  

That's assuming no salary cut this year.

[ChiSox59]

8 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

That's assuming no salary cut this year.

Yes, I am assuming there is no salary cut until there is a salary cut.  This team is still very much in its window of contention, and hopefully the anchor that is TLR is officially out of the way.  Cutting payroll would be a massive disappointment.  I suspect they'll be right around $200M.  They cannot fix the problems on this roster if its not.  

[GREEDY]

10 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said:

Yes. 

I don't understand trading Gio. Gio is a guy that has proven he is both very interested in maximizing earnings and is also a student of the game that cares deeply about his performance.  That is not a guy I am betting against in his final season before reaching free agency.  Trading him at legitimately his lowest value he's been at any point in his White Sox tenure doesn't make any sense.   

Can't move him.

Even if the unthinkable happened and we received a front office overhaul, I think they still essentially run it back one more year. 

So, if you trade Gio, you are likely right back in the market for a vet starter.  

You won't find anyone priced similarly that you feel better gambling on for one year nor would that player offer you any control like you'd have with the QO/Comp on Gio.  

[chw42]

39 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said:

Sox should have $25-30M to spend.  Can maybe create another $5-$10M with a few non tenders of guys like Engel, Mendick and Ruiz. 

They should have enough $ to sign a legit LH OF and a 5th SP and stay within $5M or so of their 2022 payroll.  I fully expect them to go internal at 2B.  

You're assuming Jerry will keep the payroll where it's at. I doubt that'll happen. 

[ChiSox59]

24 minutes ago, chw42 said:

You're assuming Jerry will keep the payroll where it's at. I doubt that'll happen. 

I get the opinion, but as I just said to Balta, I am going to assume the payroll stays around $200M until it doesn't.  We have a core that is getting more expensive and closer to FA (this should be some surprise to ownership_, and we're still in the midst of whatever is left of this window.  Cutting payroll right now would be crazy, and just further support that JR isn't a serious owner.  The Sox already have $170M or so committed to 2023 roster - they cannot both cut payroll and solve the roster issues.  Let's hope extending the window takes precedent over slashing payroll like $10M.

[GreenSox]

Martin has similar numbers as Cueto and Quintana this year. Take the opportunity to fill a position with a minimum salary player, even if he's unheralded as a prospect.  The FO has got move on from its obsolete  "it's all about strikeouts" analytics (not that Cueto and Q are strikeout guys)  and "proven veteran" nonsense.

Trouble with moving Giolito is that they won't get much. Maybe trade Hendricks and Lopez; they seem to be at top value.  Decent chance Giolito rebounds in his free-agency showcase year.

No way should they trade Vaughn for 2 years of a starter.
 

Edited September 19, 2022 by GreenSox

[Balta1701]

3 minutes ago, GreenSox said:

Martin has similar numbers as Cueto and Quintana this year. Take the opportunity to fill a position with a minimum salary player, even if he's unheralded as a prospect.  The FO has got move on from its obsolete  "it's all about strikeouts" analytics (not that Cueto and Q are strikeout guys)  and "proven veteran" nonsense.

Trouble with moving Giolito is that they won't get much. Maybe trade Hendricks and Lopez; they seem to be at top value.  Decent chance Giolito rebounds in his free-agency showcase year.

No way should they trade Vaughn for 2 years of a starter.
 

Huh? Those 2 guys have ERA's in the low 3's, Martin has an ERA in the high 3s. They have K/BB rates around 2.8, Martin is at 2.2. 

As I said on the previous page, I have no issues with Martin being part of the top 6/7 pitchers next year, but the bolded makes no sense to me.

[Squirmin' for Yermin]

20 hours ago, South Side Hit Men said:

Went to MLB Trade Values to see their valuation of Pablo Lopez, one of the pitchers I wanted the Sox to target for Eloy, and came across this trade that 99% of Soxtalk would Go Apeshit if Hahn did this. I don't think Hahn would make it out of Comiskey alive, and no jury would convicted the mob.

Mets Trade: 2B J McNeil ($21.1), SP Tylor Megill ($11.1), SP David Peterson ($6.1), SP Jose Butto ($2.2) and C James McCann (minus $17.2M)

White Sox Trade: SP Michael Kopech ($17.8) SP Lucas Giolito ($12.6), RP Tanner Banks ($2.2M), C Yasmani Grandal (minus $10.2M).

omg lolllllll

[Chisoxfn]

On the topic of Martin - he has been admirably in his role with the squad this year - but look at his numbers in Charlotte and before - someone has to tell me what is happening at the MLB level is truly sustainable vs. a more historic track record of being a relatively meh minor league pitcher and meh minor leaguers don't typically translate into okay or even good major leaguers (unless of course there is some sort of mechanical adjustment where plus stuff and meh command gets corrected). 

I don't see Martin as having electric stuff so I got to think this is a small sample size in the Sox favor more than anything else (and touche to Martin for doing it) but assuming he is anything other than fools gold would be a mistake in my mind.  

[ChiSox59]

2 hours ago, GreenSox said:

Martin has similar numbers as Cueto and Quintana this year. Take the opportunity to fill a position with a minimum salary player, even if he's unheralded as a prospect.  The FO has got move on from its obsolete  "it's all about strikeouts" analytics (not that Cueto and Q are strikeout guys)  and "proven veteran" nonsense.

Trouble with moving Giolito is that they won't get much. Maybe trade Hendricks and Lopez; they seem to be at top value.  Decent chance Giolito rebounds in his free-agency showcase year.

No way should they trade Vaughn for 2 years of a starter.
 

Sox have no SP depth in upper minors. If Davis is your 5th SP, who fills in for injuries like Davis has this year? I’ll sit back and wait for the answer. 

Edited September 19, 2022 by ChiSox59

[Squirmin' for Yermin]

I really like Martin, specifically as a 6th starter for next year and let him grow into more (if he can).  For some reason he just feels like a guy who is gunna succeed despite never being ranked highly in the org.  Other organizations get these guys ofter, we seemingly never do lol.  COME ONNNNN MARTIN

[Balta1701]

53 minutes ago, Squirmin' for Yermin said:

I really like Martin, specifically as a 6th starter for next year and let him grow into more (if he can).  For some reason he just feels like a guy who is gunna succeed despite never being ranked highly in the org.  Other organizations get these guys ofter, we seemingly never do lol.  COME ONNNNN MARTIN

Martin could also be a guy who starts off as a 6th starter, picks up a couple mph when moved to the bullpen, and then is a decent reliever for a couple years. 

[Squirmin' for Yermin]

14 hours ago, Balta1701 said:

Martin could also be a guy who starts off as a 6th starter, picks up a couple mph when moved to the bullpen, and then is a decent reliever for a couple years. 

I'll take it