Capital G Posted November 16, 2022 Share Posted November 16, 2022 8 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said: If Winker wasn’t a complete butcher in LF, his offensive profile would be a solid fit. But we don’t need more DHs. I think he is as bad, if not worse, than Eloy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted November 16, 2022 Share Posted November 16, 2022 34 minutes ago, Squirmin' for Yermin said: I mean.. I guess if you view a 1.17 WAR player as a guy you don't need to replace, that's on you. Baseball reference has him at 5.1 WAR (.85 WAR annually) over that same period. Winker averages .27 to .5 WAR more than Engel over a season (depending on where you find your WAR number. Is that good? If the White Sox came away with two 1 WAR outfielders and one 1 WAR starter I would not consider that a failed offseason. It wouldn’t be great, but that would be an upgrade over Vaughn, Sheets, and Engel in the OF. With seemingly only $20 million or less to spend, I’m ok with that as long as it doesn’t create a long term commitment. The success of the 2023 White Sox will not be determined by finding ideal free agent fits or some great trade, it will be getting more out of guys already here. If that happens then they are potentially in the race, if it doesn’t then the quality of who you spend your $20 million on barely matters. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted November 16, 2022 Share Posted November 16, 2022 1 minute ago, Capital G said: I think he is as bad, if not worse, than Eloy. I’d say they’re pretty comparable except Eloy has this issue where he keeps nearly ending his career or others’ careers while in LF. Winker was -10 on OAA last year, Eloy was -2 in just about 1/4 of the playing time. UZR tells a similar story. Thats still a ton better than Vaughn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hogan873 Posted November 16, 2022 Share Posted November 16, 2022 7 minutes ago, Balta1701 said: I’d say they’re pretty comparable except Eloy has this issue where he keeps nearly ending his career or others’ careers while in LF. Winker was -10 on OAA last year, Eloy was -2 in just about 1/4 of the playing time. UZR tells a similar story. Thats still a ton better than Vaughn. Yeah, I think the bigger issue with Eloy is his propensity to get hurt and/or endanger others. I would hazard to guess that the Sox are going to add someone for the OF, and Winker wouldn't be a bad fit. Eloy is going to have to get used to being primarily a DH. Now, of course, a lot of who plays the OF will be determined by whether Abreu comes back or not. If not, which seems likely, Vaughn is the 1B. If he does come back, does that mean we see Vaughn stumbling around out of position again? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted November 16, 2022 Share Posted November 16, 2022 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Parkman Posted November 16, 2022 Share Posted November 16, 2022 This is why the Sox are paying Moncada $46M over the next 2 years, in case anyone forgot. It's really a shame that the combination of the juiced ball+long covid derailed him. We'll never know how much. All I know is that he's not that guy anymore and that guy isn't coming back. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSox59 Posted November 16, 2022 Author Share Posted November 16, 2022 10 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said: This is why the Sox are paying Moncada $46M over the next 2 years, in case anyone forgot. It's really a shame that the combination of the juiced ball+long covid derailed him. We'll never know how much. All I know is that he's not that guy anymore and that guy isn't coming back. Yoan is definitely a guy I could see being a very productive major leaguer until he’s in has late with 30s with just a priority shift. He’s got all the talent in the world. He’s probably already locked himself into being a let down in a White Sox jersey, but I wouldn’t be surprised at all to see the light bulb go on once he realizes the well is going to run dry in a couple years. It’s in there. Hope it starts in 23. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Sacamano Posted November 16, 2022 Share Posted November 16, 2022 Surprised this hasn't been shared yet. It's a slow day here (and at work) so I figured I'd share. Take with grain of salt obviously. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tnetennba Posted November 16, 2022 Share Posted November 16, 2022 1 hour ago, ChiSox59 said: If Winker wasn’t a complete butcher in LF, his offensive profile would be a solid fit. But we don’t need more DHs. Is he a threat to himself and others in the OF, or just really inept? Worse than AV or Sheets out there? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Sacamano Posted November 16, 2022 Share Posted November 16, 2022 (edited) 3 minutes ago, Tnetennba said: Is he a threat to himself and others in the OF, or just really inept? Worse than AV or Sheets out there? This is the thing for me. If we have a good defender in CF and RF, I could live with a LF that can hit and stay on the field and not hurt other guys. This isn't my favorite option but depending on the cost I could be ok with him. Edit: The part that sucks though is we are already banking on bounce-back seasons from a handful of guys already. Edited November 16, 2022 by Bob Sacamano Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSox59 Posted November 16, 2022 Author Share Posted November 16, 2022 (edited) 8 minutes ago, Tnetennba said: Is he a threat to himself and others in the OF, or just really inept? Worse than AV or Sheets out there? I literally think he’d fit right in with the crew. Perhaps a slight upgrade on the 1B, but he’s really bad. He looks like a flimsy green bean with a hat on wiggling around out there. It’s bad. Not a fit defensively at all, which we all know should be a focus. The bat would work tho. There’s worse moves that could be made. Edited November 16, 2022 by ChiSox59 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chw42 Posted November 16, 2022 Share Posted November 16, 2022 2 minutes ago, Tnetennba said: Is he a threat to himself and others in the OF, or just really inept? Worse than AV or Sheets out there? Probably not, but Winker's offensive peripherals last year were pretty bad. His exit velo dropped a lot, as did his hard hit % and barrel%. It wasn't just him moving to Seattle that caused a lot of his issues. He straight up wasn't hitting the ball as hard as he did in Cincy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Parkman Posted November 16, 2022 Share Posted November 16, 2022 (edited) 21 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said: Yoan is definitely a guy I could see being a very productive major leaguer until he’s in has late with 30s with just a priority shift. He’s got all the talent in the world. He’s probably already locked himself into being a let down in a White Sox jersey, but I wouldn’t be surprised at all to see the light bulb go on once he realizes the well is going to run dry in a couple years. It’s in there. Hope it starts in 23. I think his ceiling now is his 2021 with around 18-22 HR. He will hit somewhere around .240-.270. Walks and OBP will be erratic from season to season. I would hope that in 2023-24 he realizes he's playing for that 2025 option. Edited November 16, 2022 by Jack Parkman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSox59 Posted November 16, 2022 Author Share Posted November 16, 2022 1 minute ago, Jack Parkman said: I think his ceiling now is his 2021 with around 18-22 HR. .800 OPS switch hitting 3B with a well above average glove aren’t that plentiful. That’s a very valuable player. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Parkman Posted November 16, 2022 Share Posted November 16, 2022 (edited) 2 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said: .800 OPS switch hitting 3B with a well above average glove aren’t that plentiful. That’s a very valuable player. Yep. I just hope he can get back there in a Sox uni. If he can pull that off the next two seasons then he's worth his 2025 option. Most of the board is pretty down on Yoan though. He's still crazy talented and even though the ceiling isn't stratospheric like it once was, it's still pretty good. Edited November 16, 2022 by Jack Parkman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted November 16, 2022 Share Posted November 16, 2022 To me, the white sox depth has arrived. I believe a lot in some of the prospects at the door and continued bat only production from a guy like Burger. That's why it's such a shame this org won't try to get anything closer to big game hunting. On the other hand, we are a top 5 most likely team to land Judge and we can never rule JR out of a big move 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted November 16, 2022 Share Posted November 16, 2022 (edited) 2 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said: .800 OPS switch hitting 3B with a well above average glove aren’t that plentiful. That’s a very valuable player. 4.0 WAR 3B would be kind of nice. I'm with you. I think there is more there. Hopefully a new staff and a new year get him there. Edited November 16, 2022 by Dick Allen 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squirmin' for Yermin Posted November 16, 2022 Share Posted November 16, 2022 20 minutes ago, Tnetennba said: Is he a threat to himself and others in the OF, or just really inept? Worse than AV or Sheets out there? Doesn't he also have a vast injury history? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted November 16, 2022 Share Posted November 16, 2022 48 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said: Yoan is definitely a guy I could see being a very productive major leaguer until he’s in has late with 30s with just a priority shift. He’s got all the talent in the world. He’s probably already locked himself into being a let down in a White Sox jersey, but I wouldn’t be surprised at all to see the light bulb go on once he realizes the well is going to run dry in a couple years. It’s in there. Hope it starts in 23. Yeah, I don't know him or his work ethnic, nor his relationship with the former team leadership. But if he wants to get PAID, and not just paid, the generational wealth is in his next contract, not his current one. This is an opportunity for him to get his stuff together. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harold's Leg Lift Posted November 16, 2022 Share Posted November 16, 2022 Winker certinly fits the dead cat bounce guy you can get for fringe prospects profile. Hahn is so F'ing predictable. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squirmin' for Yermin Posted November 16, 2022 Share Posted November 16, 2022 2 minutes ago, Harold's Leg Lift said: Winker certinly fits the dead cat bounce guy you can get for fringe prospects profile. Hahn is so F'ing predictable. I'm glad i'm not the only one that would dislike it lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NCsoxfan Posted November 16, 2022 Share Posted November 16, 2022 1 hour ago, Jack Parkman said: This is why the Sox are paying Moncada $46M over the next 2 years, in case anyone forgot. It's really a shame that the combination of the juiced ball+long covid derailed him. We'll never know how much. All I know is that he's not that guy anymore and that guy isn't coming back. I don’t buy long COVID. I think he eats like s%*# and doesn’t train like a high level professional athlete. 4 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheFutureIsNear Posted November 16, 2022 Share Posted November 16, 2022 23 minutes ago, Harold's Leg Lift said: Winker certinly fits the dead cat bounce guy you can get for fringe prospects profile. Hahn is so F'ing predictable. If you’re disappointed at just the idea of Winker for fringe prospects, you should really prepare yourself for the actual outcome. What realistic options are you honestly expecting for a LH corner OF’er this off season? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Sacamano Posted November 16, 2022 Share Posted November 16, 2022 4 minutes ago, TheFutureIsNear said: If you’re disappointed at just the idea of Winker for fringe prospects, you should really prepare yourself for the actual outcome. What realistic options are you honestly expecting for a LH corner OF’er this off season? Eloy in LF and Sheets DH because they’re dumb. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tnetennba Posted November 16, 2022 Share Posted November 16, 2022 4 minutes ago, Bob Sacamano said: Eloy in LF and Sheets DH because they’re dumb. Eloy in LF, Sheets in RF, Grandal at 1B. Not that I'm putting this evil out into the universe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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