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Your 2023 Off-Season Plan


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Just now, YouCanPutItOnTheBoardYES! said:

And Romy and Leury aren’t? Sosa might have potential but we have no idea what he is. Acting like he isn’t better than their current options is laughable.

Again,  that is an insanely low bar.  Nick Madrigal was terrible last year. In 200 ABs he was a replacement level hitter.

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11 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

Again,  that is an insanely low bar.  Nick Madrigal was terrible last year. In 200 ABs he was a replacement level hitter.

But you said you’re not sure if he’s better than those guys which almost certainly isn’t true. I would be shocked if any of the trio of Leury/Romy/Sosa outperformed Madrigal statistically this season.

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6 minutes ago, YouCanPutItOnTheBoardYES! said:

But you said you’re not sure if he’s better than those guys which almost certainly isn’t true. I would be shocked if any of the trio of Leury/Romy/Sosa outperformed Madrigal statistically this season.

I am not.  What value is 200 awful ABs?  We still need another 400 PAs from someone else to start with. In 3 seasons, last year was his career high in ABs, and he put up numbers worse than Leurys career numbers.  He's put up 2.4 bWAR and 1.8 fWAR in 3 seasons total.  We'd need like 1 WAR to be better than what Nick has averaged his 1st 3 years.

 

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10 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

I am not.  What value is 200 awful ABs?  We still need another 400 PAs from someone else to start with. In 3 seasons, last year was his career high in ABs, and he put up numbers worse than Leurys career numbers.  He's put up 2.4 bWAR and 1.8 fWAR in 3 seasons total.  We'd need like 1 WAR to be better than what Nick has averaged his 1st 3 years.

 

Leury is terrible. Romy is terrible. Sosa might be good eventually but was terrible in a small sample size last year. Of those 4 options I would choose Madrigal. He wasn’t that good in 2022 but isn’t that far removed from being productive and also has the most past success of that group.

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8 minutes ago, YouCanPutItOnTheBoardYES! said:

Leury is terrible. Romy is terrible. Sosa might be good eventually but was terrible in a small sample size last year. Of those 4 options I would choose Madrigal. He wasn’t that good in 2022 but isn’t that far removed from being productive and also has the most past success of that group.

That isn't "success".  He's hurt for 2/3 of each season, so those guys are still going to get 400 ABs, and when he has played, he’s barely been over replacement. Romy had a higher OPS+ than Madrigal did last year.  

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8 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

That isn't "success".  He's hurt for 2/3 of each season, so those guys are still going to get 400 ABs, and when he has played, he’s barely been over replacement. Romy had a higher OPS+ than Madrigal did last year.  

He was a positive WAR player who was above average offensively both years he was with the Sox (though it was a small sample size). That’s far more “success” than I would expect from their current options.

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Just to add some more fuel...

 

https://www.marqueesportsnetwork.com/how-cubs-envision-nick-madrigal-fitting-into-2023-roster-puzzle/

 

For Madrigal, part of the solution to a healthy regiment in 2023 comes from advanced data the team has on each player’s biometrics through their running and other movements they make. According to some within the Cubs system, for Madrigal, that means the way he runs — Madrigal’s running pattern has him more upright than other players, meaning he’s putting more stress on his hamstrings, which can, in turn lead to hamstring or lower body injuries.

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19 minutes ago, YouCanPutItOnTheBoardYES! said:

He was a positive WAR player who was above average offensively both years he was with the Sox (though it was a small sample size). That’s far more “success” than I would expect from their current options.

Madrigal hasn't done anything to prove he is worth trading for.

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1 hour ago, YouCanPutItOnTheBoardYES! said:

But you said you’re not sure if he’s better than those guys which almost certainly isn’t true. I would be shocked if any of the trio of Leury/Romy/Sosa outperformed Madrigal statistically this season.

Madrigal sucks.  Unless the Cubs are giving him away for free, why give up assets for a marginal improvement if that?   

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42 minutes ago, SoxAce said:

I always thought he looked like a dummy when he was running but I couldn't put my finger on it. Definitely the running upright thing, that makes a lot of sense now.

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The obsession with former players is really weird. Forget a guy with legit potential like Sosa…I’m not even sure there’s any guarantee Madrigal would be more productive than Hansel Alberto next year. 
 

IF (he doesn’t) Hahn wanted to give up assets for a 2B he could do a lot better than Madrigal 

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1 hour ago, YouCanPutItOnTheBoardYES! said:

He sucks less than their current options. That’s the point. Obviously wouldn’t be my first choice but he is an improvement over who they have now.

And my point is that whatever marginal improvement he might be, which is questionable, he isn’t worth giving up assets for.  I saw plenty of Madrigal when he was here and I doubt he’s any better than what the Sox already have.  If they are going to trade for someone, and they should make an acquisition, they should aim way higher than a mediocre defensive 2B with clubhouse issues who hasn’t proven to be able to stay healthy.  Not that we even know if he is available or whether Hahn would ever have any interest in a reunion.  It’s a moot argument. 

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9 hours ago, fathom said:

Fegan has a great article up with Katz quotes.  The biggest thing that jumped out to me is the Sox starting depth is going to be tested, as Kopech still isn’t 100 pct and Clevinger might be on an innings limit.  At least we know Hahn will stay busy to ensure injuries can’t derail the team!!!

But the Sox did enough! What more could you expect!?!?

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34 minutes ago, greg775 said:

I'd like to reacquire Madrigal. It'd remind me of the good ol days when Sox were considered can't miss playoff team/likely WS winner in coming years. Might reverse the bad karma.

This literally has never been a thing in the entire franchise history

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13 hours ago, flavum said:

I’m giving Romy first shot while Sosa is in AAA. Madrigal will get traded to Washington or something. 

They should trade him to Colorado because that's one place where he actually has a chance for some success.  Teams have figured him out.  They play the outfielders shallow and bust him inside.  The shallow outfielders take away his blop hits and they know he can't hit it over their heads but in Colorado the outfield is so big some of those gernades may still find the grass and with the thin air he may occasionally hit one over their heads.  He's such a physically limited player that outside Coors I don't know where he could even sniff being an avg everyday big leaguer. 

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