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Your 2023 Off-Season Plan


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15 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

Let's work on a better nickname. 

Gee… I wonder why I don’t posts like that unless they’re responded to. Hhump… must be a bug.

Oh well… Carry on.

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2 hours ago, Chicago White Sox said:

I think I found who will be Hahn’s Ivan Nova this off-season and that will be Marco Gonzales.  Dude put up 183 innings of 0.1 fWAR ball last year, which is an incredibly impressive feat.  Just seems like the type of innings eater that Hahn will covet to protect the staff and he can probably exchange a bad contact (Kelly or Leury) to get him.  It’s got Rick Hahn special written all over it.

I think a package of Gonzalez and Winker from the M’s is very realistic for the Sox. 

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On today’s White Sox Talk Podcast episode, Chuck & Ryan had Jesse Rogers on as their guest and they did their off-season predictions.  Here is a summary:

Jesse:

  • Giolito to Rays for prospects
  • Kyle Gibson or Zach Eflin replaces Cueto
  • Bounce-back guy like Adam Frazier or internal guys for 2B
  • Sheets & Eloy together will get the playing time in LF & DH
  • Michael Brantley signed to play RF (lol)
  • Sox won’t add a FA with an AAV above $10 (agents not acting like the Sox will have money to spend)

Chuck:

  • Eloy to Rays for Brandon Lowe
  • Clevinger replaces Cueto (Chuck points out that we almost acquired him in 2020 and that Mike has actual interest in playing in Chicago)
  • Elvis Andrus brought back to play 2B
  • Kevin Kiermaier or Micheal Brantley for LF
  • Colas is the starting RF

Ryan:

  • Giolito to Blue Jays for Teoscar Hernandez
  • Cueto resigned to fill back-of-rotation spot
  • Cheap FA and/or internal guys for 2B
  • Colas is the starting RF (reluctantly)
  • Sox’s biggest FA signing will be a 2nd tier SP

The tone of the show matched the pessimism of the predations.  May god have mercy on our souls.

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1 hour ago, Chicago White Sox said:

On today’s White Sox Talk Podcast episode, Chuck & Ryan had Jesse Rogers on as their guest and they did their off-season predictions.  Here is a summary:

Jesse:

  • Giolito to Rays for prospects
  • Kyle Gibson or Zach Eflin replaces Cueto
  • Bounce-back guy like Adam Frazier or internal guys for 2B
  • Sheets & Eloy together will get the playing time in LF & DH
  • Michael Brantley signed to play RF (lol)
  • Sox won’t add a FA with an AAV above $10 (agents not acting like the Sox will have money to spend)

Chuck:

  • Eloy to Rays for Brandon Lowe
  • Clevinger replaces Cueto (Chuck points out that we almost acquired him in 2020 and that Mike has actual interest in playing in Chicago)
  • Elvis Andrus brought back to play 2B
  • Kevin Kiermaier or Micheal Brantley for LF
  • Colas is the starting RF

Ryan:

  • Giolito to Blue Jays for Teoscar Hernandez
  • Cueto resigned to fill back-of-rotation spot
  • Cheap FA and/or internal guys for 2B
  • Colas is the starting RF (reluctantly)
  • Sox’s biggest FA signing will be a 2nd tier SP

The tone of the show matched the pessimism of the predations.  May god have mercy on our souls.

I only like Ryan’s ideas.

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6 hours ago, Chicago White Sox said:

On today’s White Sox Talk Podcast episode, Chuck & Ryan had Jesse Rogers on as their guest and they did their off-season predictions.  Here is a summary:

Jesse:

  • Giolito to Rays for prospects
  • Kyle Gibson or Zach Eflin replaces Cueto
  • Bounce-back guy like Adam Frazier or internal guys for 2B
  • Sheets & Eloy together will get the playing time in LF & DH
  • Michael Brantley signed to play RF (lol)
  • Sox won’t add a FA with an AAV above $10 (agents not acting like the Sox will have money to spend)

Chuck:

  • Eloy to Rays for Brandon Lowe
  • Clevinger replaces Cueto (Chuck points out that we almost acquired him in 2020 and that Mike has actual interest in playing in Chicago)
  • Elvis Andrus brought back to play 2B
  • Kevin Kiermaier or Micheal Brantley for LF
  • Colas is the starting RF

Ryan:

  • Giolito to Blue Jays for Teoscar Hernandez
  • Cueto resigned to fill back-of-rotation spot
  • Cheap FA and/or internal guys for 2B
  • Colas is the starting RF (reluctantly)
  • Sox’s biggest FA signing will be a 2nd tier SP

The tone of the show matched the pessimism of the predations.  May god have mercy on our souls.

I got excited to make that spreadsheet finally...probably because I just like making them. I've only had the heart to make one. I've never been less enthused.

However, I keep thinking that it's very likely that the worst thing that could happen is rick actually tries. I'm fairly confident in Colas and our infield depth turning out as positives. And on dark moments I think about how sheets is a big boy who could have this tin man moment where someone is like "you are no longer a groundball hitter you are a big strong boy".

I also realized that I am extremely bummed about Jose in a way that I did not expect.

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9 hours ago, Chicago White Sox said:

On today’s White Sox Talk Podcast episode, Chuck & Ryan had Jesse Rogers on as their guest and they did their off-season predictions.  Here is a summary:

Jesse:

  • Giolito to Rays for prospects
  • Kyle Gibson or Zach Eflin replaces Cueto
  • Bounce-back guy like Adam Frazier or internal guys for 2B
  • Sheets & Eloy together will get the playing time in LF & DH
  • Michael Brantley signed to play RF (lol)
  • Sox won’t add a FA with an AAV above $10 (agents not acting like the Sox will have money to spend)

Chuck:

  • Eloy to Rays for Brandon Lowe
  • Clevinger replaces Cueto (Chuck points out that we almost acquired him in 2020 and that Mike has actual interest in playing in Chicago)
  • Elvis Andrus brought back to play 2B
  • Kevin Kiermaier or Micheal Brantley for LF
  • Colas is the starting RF

Ryan:

  • Giolito to Blue Jays for Teoscar Hernandez
  • Cueto resigned to fill back-of-rotation spot
  • Cheap FA and/or internal guys for 2B
  • Colas is the starting RF (reluctantly)
  • Sox’s biggest FA signing will be a 2nd tier SP

The tone of the show matched the pessimism of the predations.  May god have mercy on our souls.

Would love the internet to put together one of those clips montages of 

1) Hahn saying we will spend the money, the championship window phrase

2) sox losing

3) all the backers like Garfein, etc. who said to remain calm, remained optimistic (they're paid to, so i give them a bit of a break)

4) a bunch of negative clips from the TLR season

5) us spending nothing this offseason/goodbye video to Abreu who signs w Astros/competitor.

6) ending in more losing moments over the next two years

7) finishing scene of hahn saying "we had a seat at the table"

 

In terms of a rebuild and going through a tear down? I give the white sox brass a D+ 

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2 minutes ago, he gone. said:

Would love the internet to put together one of those clips montages of 

1) Hahn saying we will spend the money, the championship window phrase

2) sox losing

3) all the backers like Garfein, etc. who said to remain calm, remained optimistic (they're paid to, so i give them a bit of a break)

4) a bunch of negative clips from the TLR season

5) us spending nothing this offseason/goodbye video to Abreu who signs w Astros/competitor.

6) ending in more losing moments over the next two years

7) finishing scene of hahn saying "we had a seat at the table"

 

In terms of a rebuild and going through a tear down? I give the white sox brass a D+ 

Add in clips of all the players getting hurt simply running the bases 

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9 hours ago, Chicago White Sox said:

 

Jesse:

  • Giolito to Rays for prospects

Ryan:

  • Giolito to Blue Jays for Teoscar Hernandez

Surprising that two guys have the Sox dealing Giolitio and adding starting pitching.

How bearish do you have to be on Lucas to want to swap him for a 1 year vet that you have no control over and don't get a comp pick if you lose them? 

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13 minutes ago, he gone. said:

In terms of a rebuild and going through a tear down? I give the white sox brass a D+ 

You’re a more generous grader than I am. 

I liked the extensions of Moncada, Eloy, TA and Robert at the time, and think they were generally well received, again, at the time. I’d say the same about the Grandal signing and the Lynn trade.

And after that they just sort of…stopped?

Combine that “we’re good enough” arrogance with some of the above moves not aging well and yiiiiikes, here we are.
 

 

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9 hours ago, Chicago White Sox said:

On today’s White Sox Talk Podcast episode, Chuck & Ryan had Jesse Rogers on as their guest and they did their off-season predictions.  Here is a summary:

Jesse:

  • Giolito to Rays for prospects
  • Kyle Gibson or Zach Eflin replaces Cueto
  • Bounce-back guy like Adam Frazier or internal guys for 2B
  • Sheets & Eloy together will get the playing time in LF & DH
  • Michael Brantley signed to play RF (lol)
  • Sox won’t add a FA with an AAV above $10 (agents not acting like the Sox will have money to spend)

Chuck:

  • Eloy to Rays for Brandon Lowe
  • Clevinger replaces Cueto (Chuck points out that we almost acquired him in 2020 and that Mike has actual interest in playing in Chicago)
  • Elvis Andrus brought back to play 2B
  • Kevin Kiermaier or Micheal Brantley for LF
  • Colas is the starting RF

Ryan:

  • Giolito to Blue Jays for Teoscar Hernandez
  • Cueto resigned to fill back-of-rotation spot
  • Cheap FA and/or internal guys for 2B
  • Colas is the starting RF (reluctantly)
  • Sox’s biggest FA signing will be a 2nd tier SP

The tone of the show matched the pessimism of the predations.  May god have mercy on our souls.

They had one with Jon Morosi earlier too. Basically if you're talking about guys like Adam Frazier and Kiermaier  those are just fill in players who you're better off not spending the money on and just going with internal options. Hahn's made those mistakes before. Give Sosa, Davis Martin, Colas and Romy lots of time. Those are their current best options.

Neither podcast mentioned Benintendi who seems as if he could be the most logical option if the Sox even want to spend as much as that which is debatable when starting pitching is the need that might cost the most. It's going to be a long long post season of meh. It's like its 2016 again chasing bounce backs that'll never happen and giving away guys like Bassitt, Semien and Tatis.  Hold onto those guys now and don't dick around with garbage vets.

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8 minutes ago, Squirmin' for Yermin said:

You would get a comp if acquired proior to the season beginning

The team acquiring Giolito would get QO control.

The Sox would repalce him with a 1 year stop gap with zero control. 

Gotta really, really, really prefer the replacement to make that swap.  

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14 minutes ago, GREEDY said:

 

The team acquiring Giolito would get QO control.

The Sox would repalce him with a 1 year stop gap with zero control. 

Gotta really, really, really prefer the replacement to make that swap.  

Sox get QO control of Hernandez. Giolito is also a 1-year stop gap.

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27 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

They had one with Jon Morosi earlier too. Basically if you're talking about guys like Adam Frazier and Kiermaier  those are just fill in players who you're better off not spending the money on and just going with internal options. Hahn's made those mistakes before. Give Sosa, Davis Martin, Colas and Romy lots of time. Those are their current best options.

Neither podcast mentioned Benintendi who seems as if he could be the most logical option if the Sox even want to spend as much as that which is debatable when starting pitching is the need that might cost the most. It's going to be a long long post season of meh. It's like its 2016 again chasing bounce backs that'll never happen and giving away guys like Bassitt, Semien and Tatis.  Hold onto those guys now and don't dick around with garbage vets.

The biggest flaw in 2015/2016 wasn't going with vets and chasing bounce-back guys.

It was sacrificing the talent the org had in trades because they thought that a 72 team could compete by adding a bunch of those bounce back guys, overpaying for 2 or 3 mid level free agents, and trading for 1 or 2 moderately big names. They did long term damage because they didn't understand the weakness in their roster. That was the biggest problem, they consciously said they were good enough in 2016 to sacrifice 2019. 

Like it or not, the White Sox have to add some depth. They have big league 2 outfielders right now, Robert and Colas. They have 5 starters total, with Martin being the 5th. This is not a survivable situation, help needs to be added there however it is done. 

I continue to believe the best overall strategy is to add in guys like Kiermaier, Gallo, and a starter who are 1 year, bounce back guys. If they struggle, we can't be surprised, but we haven't done long term damage this time. If some of them have success, then either that supports the team if more important guys have improved years, or alternatively that gives them more to trade away at the deadline. 

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19 minutes ago, Snopek said:

You’re a more generous grader than I am. 

I liked the extensions of Moncada, Eloy, TA and Robert at the time, and think they were generally well received, again, at the time. I’d say the same about the Grandal signing and the Lynn trade.

And after that they just sort of…stopped?

Combine that “we’re good enough” arrogance with some of the above moves not aging well and yiiiiikes, here we are.
 

 

it's been a hallmark of this sox organization to do just not enough. whether it is signing over-the-hill vets instead of more established players, being just short of acquiring top free agents or willing to skip filling a known gap and hoping a cheap in-house option can work, they've done it again and again. all part of jerry's second-place strategy.

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12 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

The biggest flaw in 2015/2016 wasn't going with vets and chasing bounce-back guys.

It was sacrificing the talent the org had in trades because they thought that a 72 team could compete by adding a bunch of those bounce back guys, overpaying for 2 or 3 mid level free agents, and trading for 1 or 2 moderately big names. They did long term damage because they didn't understand the weakness in their roster. That was the biggest problem, they consciously said they were good enough in 2016 to sacrifice 2019. 

Like it or not, the White Sox have to add some depth. They have big league 2 outfielders right now, Robert and Colas. They have 5 starters total, with Martin being the 5th. This is not a survivable situation, help needs to be added there however it is done. 

I continue to believe the best overall strategy is to add in guys like Kiermaier, Gallo, and a starter who are 1 year, bounce back guys. If they struggle, we can't be surprised, but we haven't done long term damage this time. If some of them have success, then either that supports the team if more important guys have improved years, or alternatively that gives them more to trade away at the deadline. 

As much as you despise Hahn I am shocked that you would recommend wasting money on guys like Gallo and Kiermaier. That's just throwing good money after bad to try to salvage this .500 team. It won't work. Scour the guys being DFA'd now with the roster crunches. Stone Garrett seems like someone who would be good to replace Engel with some upside to his game, and the Diamondbacks let him walk. Invest in youth now.

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9 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

As much as you despise Hahn I am shocked that you would recommend wasting money on guys like Gallo and Kiermaier. That's just throwing good money after bad to try to salvage this .500 team. It won't work. Scour the guys being DFA'd now with the roster crunches. Stone Garrett seems like someone who would be good to replace Engel with some upside to his game, and the Diamondbacks let him walk. Invest in youth now.

That works for me, but I don't consider that "investing" in youth.

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