LaRussa retiring on Monday

[South Side Hit Men]

36 minutes ago, Harry Chappas said:

Yes he has owned the team for 41 years and is 87 years old, nothing is changing...similar to his partner in crime Dollar Bill Wirtz 

Bill Wirtz and Dale Tallon built the Stanley Cup Dynasty core.

[zisk]

47 minutes ago, South Side Hit Men said:

Bill Wirtz and Dale Tallon built the Stanley Cup Dynasty core.

Probably while drunk. My father told me to never trust a man with a tomato in

the middle of his face. P.S. Bill Wirtz didn't do s%*#. P.P.S. Get Bent. 

[The Kids Can Play]

9 hours ago, Balta1701 said:

They were about $23 million under the tax line this year. They are 10 games behind Cleveland. That gap is so huge that Rodon doesn’t fix it.

You're absolutely right even adding Rodon probably wouldn't have mattered in 2022. However that is because the idiot Hahn had the 2022 payroll polluted with several terrible contracts. Over the next few years as we lose these horrific contracts, assuming Hahn and Williams are gone, which is doubtful, and finally assuming an outside GM executive from a winning culture like Tampa Bay or Cleveland is brought in, which again is doubtful, then with top notch and successful front office, we could spend money like a #3 major market team should be spending.

The harsh realty though, is if the Sox ever want to be a championship WS contender, they can't just do it with spending big free agent money. The Sox also need to become great at scouting, drafting and developing the talent to create one of the top ranked farm systems like the Dodgers. Yankees and Mets do, besides the insane money they spend. 

Again, as long as we have this obsolete and demented owner, none of these WS aspirations will ever happen. We already saw the stats how backwards the Sox are in spending money on the number of people for each team for their analytics dept. I believe we were last. Having said that, I would love to see stats on where the Sox rank relative to all support areas to a baseball organization, like scouts, trainers, medical, etc. Even if none of this information is available to the public, I'm quite sure the wise old Reinsdorf is near or at the bottom in all those other key support areas.  

 

 

[The Kids Can Play]

On 10/3/2022 at 4:32 PM, chw42 said:

Hahn's wants for manager:

1. Managed recently, has managed on championship teams
2. Good communicator
3. Someone who understands modern baseball
4. Connection with the Sox not needed
5. Cairo will get an interview

You forgot #6. Hopefully I'm allowed to make my own decision and my boss Jerry doesn't make the manager decision for me.

[Paulie4Pres]

2 hours ago, South Side Hit Men said:

Bill Wirtz and Dale Tallon built the Stanley Cup Dynasty core.

Stick to baseball.

[hankchifan]

21 hours ago, soulfly said:

See ya Tony.  Thank you for ruining Sox baseball for many of us these past two years.  A new manager is great, but if Hahn stays, who fucking cares.  Dude is the worst GM in baseball.  Do we really think he is magically going to figure out how to construct a roster finally next season?  Unreal that he gets to pick the next manager.  This team is basically the Detroit Lions at this point.

TLR should have retired before the season with his drinking and heart issues combined with his advanced age.  It was irresponsible of him and the FO and JR to have allowed this disaster to happen.

[Chisoxfn]

3 hours ago, The Kids Can Play said:

You're absolutely right even adding Rodon probably wouldn't have mattered in 2022. However that is because the idiot Hahn had the 2022 payroll polluted with several terrible contracts. Over the next few years as we lose these horrific contracts, assuming Hahn and Williams are gone, which is doubtful, and finally assuming an outside GM executive from a winning culture like Tampa Bay or Cleveland is brought in, which again is doubtful, then with top notch and successful front office, we could spend money like a #3 major market team should be spending.

The harsh realty though, is if the Sox ever want to be a championship WS contender, they can't just do it with spending big free agent money. The Sox also need to become great at scouting, drafting and developing the talent to create one of the top ranked farm systems like the Dodgers. Yankees and Mets do, besides the insane money they spend. 

Again, as long as we have this obsolete and demented owner, none of these WS aspirations will ever happen. We already saw the stats how backwards the Sox are in spending money on the number of people for each team for their analytics dept. I believe we were last. Having said that, I would love to see stats on where the Sox rank relative to all support areas to a baseball organization, like scouts, trainers, medical, etc. Even if none of this information is available to the public, I'm quite sure the wise old Reinsdorf is near or at the bottom in all those other key support areas.  

 

 

The Sox goal should be to have a top 5 scout, minor league coaching, analytic, and development staff in terms of comp.  I don't care if there payroll is 15th in baseball - I want an org that manages its baseball people and strength and development and pays them and builds a unit with depth, expertise and specialization where appropriate.  

That should be the focus - if that means they cheap out $20M on payroll to fund it - so be it. 

[Harry Chappas]

4 hours ago, South Side Hit Men said:

Bill Wirtz and Dale Tallon built the Stanley Cup Dynasty core.

Bill wasnt going to spend what was needed.  No Hossa no cups.

[Tnetennba]

7 minutes ago, Chisoxfn said:

The Sox goal should be to have a top 5 scout, minor league coaching, analytic, and development staff in terms of comp.  I don't care if there payroll is 15th in baseball - I want an org that manages its baseball people and strength and development and pays them and builds a unit with depth, expertise and specialization where appropriate.  

That should be the focus - if that means they cheap out $20M on payroll to fund it - so be it. 

There’s no reason that this org can’t be tops drafting & developing and carry a payroll in the top 10-15, investing in young talent and adding in FA where needed.  They simply lack the will to prioritise and invest.  

[reiks12]

Wrong thread

Edited October 5, 2022 by reiks12

[Whitewashed in '05]

14 hours ago, Tnetennba said:

There’s no reason that this org can’t be tops drafting & developing and carry a payroll in the top 10-15, investing in young talent and adding in FA where needed.  They simply lack the will to prioritise and invest.  

I’m willing to bet that they do feel like they prioritize and invest. It comes down to having the correct staff no matter if they have ties to the organization or not.
 

Doesn’t seem like they have the right people based on the state of the farm. 

[Dick Allen]

7 minutes ago, Whitewashed in '05 said:

I’m willing to bet that they do feel like they prioritize and invest. It comes down to having the correct staff no matter if they have ties to the organization or not.
 

Doesn’t seem like they have the right people based on the state of the farm. 

The weird part is, investing and succeeding with your farm system, helps keep costs way down. You would think that would be right up the White Sox alley. Yonder Alonso 9 million, Joe Kelly 19 million,. You invest that 28 million corectly into your system instead of just pissing it away, you make it up in spades.

[Chisoxfn]

35 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

The weird part is, investing and succeeding with your farm system, helps keep costs way down. You would think that would be right up the White Sox alley. Yonder Alonso 9 million, Joe Kelly 19 million,. You invest that 28 million corectly into your system instead of just pissing it away, you make it up in spades.

That is my point - my understanding is the Sox rank very low in both depth and financial pay of there scouts, front office, analytics and development people. So they have basically poured every dollar into major league talent vs. allocating more to the minor leagues, development and scouting.  The reality is - putting more money at the lower levels - enables you to run at the higher level with a lower payroll and they have to take a better, long-term view for how they balance.

This is not to say the Sox don't pay a fair wage to there scouts - my understanding is they just have far fewer people and similarly in the higher level front office roles, they basically have an echo chamber of limited minds vs. a deep, integrated, highly open front office that will drive collaborative discussions and challenge.  

[Balta1701]

3 minutes ago, Chisoxfn said:

That is my point - my understanding is the Sox rank very low in both depth and financial pay of there scouts, front office, analytics and development people. So they have basically poured every dollar into major league talent vs. allocating more to the minor leagues, development and scouting.  The reality is - putting more money at the lower levels - enables you to run at the higher level with a lower payroll and they have to take a better, long-term view for how they balance.

This is not to say the Sox don't pay a fair wage to there scouts - my understanding is they just have far fewer people and similarly in the higher level front office roles, they basically have an echo chamber of limited minds vs. a deep, integrated, highly open front office that will drive collaborative discussions and challenge.  

The fewer voices there are in an organization, the easier it is to keep everyone in line and the lower the chances anyone will ask if the boss is actually doing a decent job.

[Harry Chappas]

50 minutes ago, Chisoxfn said:

That is my point - my understanding is the Sox rank very low in both depth and financial pay of there scouts, front office, analytics and development people. So they have basically poured every dollar into major league talent vs. allocating more to the minor leagues, development and scouting.  The reality is - putting more money at the lower levels - enables you to run at the higher level with a lower payroll and they have to take a better, long-term view for how they balance.

This is not to say the Sox don't pay a fair wage to there scouts - my understanding is they just have far fewer people and similarly in the higher level front office roles, they basically have an echo chamber of limited minds vs. a deep, integrated, highly open front office that will drive collaborative discussions and challenge.  

This organization is what Kenny Williams is and what Kenny Williams is all about. Player Development is nonsense in his mind and as such the budget is given to MLB talent.

[South Side Hit Men]

3 minutes ago, Harry Chappas said:

This organization is what Kenny Williams is and what Kenny Williams is all about. Player Development is nonsense in his mind and as such the budget is given to MLB talent.

Would say this starts with Jerry. 

• COVID provided cover for deep cuts to scouting, 
• Only increased analytics to a MLB low 5 (from 3 or 4) as a personal favor to Tony's friend's son.
• Was called out by minor leaguers for the MLB not even bare minimum league mandated housing.
• Jerry's favorite maneuver is to avoid paying international spending by trading player buyouts, a double win in terms of saving crumbs.

[Lip Man 1]

3 hours ago, South Side Hit Men said:

Would say this starts with Jerry. 

• COVID provided cover for deep cuts to scouting, 
• Only increased analytics to a MLB low 5 (from 3 or 4) as a personal favor to Tony's friend's son.
• Was called out by minor leaguers for the MLB not even bare minimum league mandated housing.
• Jerry's favorite maneuver is to avoid paying international spending by trading player buyouts, a double win in terms of saving crumbs.

Agreed, it starts with JR who has gone on the record as saying he doesn't believe in paying for potential, he pays for results.

[kitekrazy]

1 hour ago, Lip Man 1 said:

Agreed, it starts with JR who has gone on the record as saying he doesn't believe in paying for potential, he pays for results.

So now can he fire Himself.

[kitekrazy]

5 hours ago, Balta1701 said:

The fewer voices there are in an organization, the easier it is to keep everyone in line and the lower the chances anyone will ask if the boss is actually doing a decent job.

There are plenty of sports organizations like that.

[Balta1701]

9 minutes ago, kitekrazy said:

There are plenty of sports organizations like that.

And they are the bottom feeders in every league.

[GreenSox]

6 hours ago, Balta1701 said:

The fewer voices there are in an organization, the easier it is to keep everyone in line and the lower the chances anyone will ask if the boss is actually doing a decent job.

That's the bottom line; they care about their own comfort.  If the owner and/or Pres' instincts aren't to invest in analytics and development infrastructure, it's the GM's job to convince them to do so.  if Hahn had  any real skill, he'd have either a) convinced them to invest in necessary infrastructure and likely would have won here long before now or b) moved on to a different organization that was focused on success. 

This is fairly common in the corporate world:  upper management producing mediocre results, and concentrating on making themselves as comfortable as possible.  Doesn't change until the shareholders get pissed.  
Where y'at, minority owners (who actually own a majority)?

 

[Lip Man 1]

1 hour ago, GreenSox said:

That's the bottom line; they care about their own comfort.  If the owner and/or Pres' instincts aren't to invest in analytics and development infrastructure, it's the GM's job to convince them to do so.  if Hahn had  any real skill, he'd have either a) convinced them to invest in necessary infrastructure and likely would have won here long before now or b) moved on to a different organization that was focused on success. 

This is fairly common in the corporate world:  upper management producing mediocre results, and concentrating on making themselves as comfortable as possible.  Doesn't change until the shareholders get pissed.  
Where y'at, minority owners (who actually own a majority)?

 

The minority owners are making money, they are satisfied with the results although there are a few who have been urging JR to sell since 2005.

Hahn's skill is as a contract negotiator, only in JR's world does that make him qualified to be a GM.

Edited October 6, 2022 by Lip Man 1

[Balta1701]

2 minutes ago, Lip Man 1 said:

The minority owners are making money, they are satisfied with the results although there are a few who have been urging JR to sell since 2005.

I am extremely skeptical with the notion that the minority owners have made money the last 3 years.

[wegner]

4 minutes ago, Lip Man 1 said:

The minority owners are making money, they are satisfied with the results although there are a few who have been urging JR to sell since 2005.

Hahn's skill is as a contract negotiator, only in JR's world does that make him qualified to be a GM.

Unless they drastically change inheritance laws, he's not selling imo.

[Lip Man 1]

20 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

I am extremely skeptical with the notion that the minority owners have made money the last 3 years.

Balta: No way to know of course, even if we got to see the books we wouldn't be able to understand them and has been shown in the 1994-95 labor impasse owners have manipulated the books...all I can tell you is I spoke with an individual who knows a few of the minority owners. When I asked that question about if they made money they said, "The Sox haven't lost money in a long time."

Take it for what its worth.