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Will "core" players be traded before Spring Training?


joejoesox
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Will the Sox trade any "Core" players before next season?   

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  1. 1. Will the Sox trade/release any of their core before 2023?

    • Yes (Names in comments)
      23
    • No, they'll try again with the same roster
      18


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I could see TA being traded.  Andrus is signed as a one year bridge to Montgomery.

I think they might shop Moncada, but his value is pretty low right now with the contract he has attached.  So, any return would be light or have a bad contract included.

Giolito could, and possibly should, be traded.  His value is low but as low as Moncada's.  Still wouldn't see a big return.

I don't think Vaughn gets traded.  If he's not traded and Abreu is re-signed, it does nothing to break up the log jam of 1B/DH.  Eloy needs to be in the lineup everyday and out of the field, so he's the primary DH.  That would mean Abreu is the primary 1B.  And Vaughn is the odd man out again.  Which means he plays an outfield position...again.

Other guys that could possibly be traded: Lynn, Graveman, Hendriks, Bummer, Leury (insert laughing emoji here)

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16 hours ago, Balta1701 said:

Yes, someone will take a flyer on taking Lynn's contract on. If they're willing to pay Syndergaard $20 million then someone would take Lynn on for $19 million. But you won't get anything back for him more than money, and I ask you this what is the point? The White Sox have no one to replace him! Signing Quintana for $14 million after dumping Lynn's $19 million - does that make the White Sox better? 

Eloy would probably bring back a small return. He has hit well this year, but you are talking about a guy due minimum $27 million on his deal over the next 2 years, while having played 134 games over 2 seasons. Would you pay $27 million for less than 1 year's worth of plate appearances for a DH? One who has an OPS in the mid-800s this year in the best stretch we've seen from him? And oh by the way he's only hitting .214 since the team quit. Oh and yes, he has option years on his contract - for $16.5 and $18.5 million. Depending on what happens with some other guys, picking up any of those options would make him one of the highest paid DHs in the league. I would take that deal on if I was the Mets or Dodgers, and you can have a reliever or something like that back for him, but something of real value? Not with that contract. If I were a low salary team like the Brewers or Marlins? Not a chance. 

Moncada is not movable unless you take back comparably bad money. My examples are still guys like Corbin (too much money remaining), Hosmer, etc. Moncada for Hosmer is a deal the Red Sox do. 

This is why I say blow it up again and trade everybody. There’s no quick and easy way to fix this. Rip it down to the studs, strengthen the organization and start from scratch. I don’t want to go through another season like 2022. 

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 I don't think they move any of their "core".    After a disappointing season their value is low.  Trades don't seem to work for this organization.  They need to avoid making trades from the big money organizations.  The Sox are the dumping ground.

 They need to ditch the coaching staff and go with outsiders before they give up on players. 

 

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12 hours ago, Jack Parkman said:

I have no idea why the rest of the board doesn't understand this. 

Hahn is married to this core. Let him sink or swim with them. 

I have zero expectations for the remainder of the decade. 

Ride it out with these guys. Either they'll get their s%*# together/stay healthy or they won't. 

I wouldn't mind selling Anderson now though. 

One more year with these guys then start the teardown process. 

I agree that if Hahn is in the same position after this season, he will not  move  the core people. He will tinker with any of the secondary pieces and gather a few FA and blame last year's injuries as the problem. 

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1 hour ago, Balta1701 said:

I really have to be prepared for a couple months of “Elvis Andrus is an awesome player and moving Anderson to sign him is my cheat code for this season, I get him for like $5 million and he’s an all star” don’t I?

I would hope the way Elvis has cratered lately might dissuade some of those stupid fantasies, but probably not. 

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1 hour ago, chetkincaid said:

This is why I say blow it up again and trade everybody. There’s no quick and easy way to fix this. Rip it down to the studs, strengthen the organization and start from scratch. I don’t want to go through another season like 2022. 

But you'd rather go through a protracted rebuild lasting at least 3-4 seasons when there is still a nucleus of a talented team intact, in a poor division?  

Also, the only guys on the Sox worth a damn at the moment are Cease, TA, Robert, AV and Kopech.  All are controlled beyond 2023.  Trading the rest (Lynn, Giolito, Moncada, Eloy,  Hendriks, Bummer, Graveman, Lopez) are going to make the 2023 team much worse, while not measurably impacting the future.  

It doesn't make any sense.  

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56 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said:

But you'd rather go through a protracted rebuild lasting at least 3-4 seasons when there is still a nucleus of a talented team intact, in a poor division?  

Yes, because even at their best, this group is nowhere close to a WS contender. Their ceiling is winning the ALC and getting destroyed in the playoffs. 

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18 hours ago, ChiSox59 said:

You also cannot continue to play two 1B in the OF.  So something has to give...

You are absolutely right and I agree with you. Abreu is not and should not be the odd man out in this situation.

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2 hours ago, caulfield12 said:

If Quintana is now a $14 million pitcher we’re doomed anyway…or Cueto at $9-10 million, for that matter.

The problem is that finding decent starters from $4-8 million is slim pickings.

Hard to expect Hahn to pull off that trick for three consecutive years.

That will get you some guys in the 5 era range.   Look at the guys in the pen making that.

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7 minutes ago, T R U said:

You are absolutely right and I agree with you. Abreu is not and should not be the odd man out in this situation.

Unfortunately there is the danger of the team getting too old.

The iron men on the team are the oldest.

I do question the toughness with Vaughn. 

 

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TA, Robert, and Eloy - keep. This has to be the core to build around come hell or high water. What choice does this team really have?

Abreu is tough. I understand the argument on both sides but also think we are overvaluing AV right now and I think other teams will look at him the same way. He’s a 6’ tall 1B that is a liability elsewhere except DH. Tough sell unless you package him in a trade.

Pitchers - keep Cease, Kopech, and maybe Lopez. I would like to see Hendricks back because he brings something severely lacking in this team, namely passion and excitement (sometimes too exciting but, oh well).

The rest? Some will have to come back but I would view all expendable. Doubt we see many takers.

As for injuries? Heard the same argument about Rodon last year and, well, yeah…

 

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On 9/29/2022 at 12:29 PM, joejoesox said:

I think there's a decent chance he's traded (50/50)

sadly I don't think they'll get much for him, not anything close to what fans think he's worth

Sadly if the knucklehead Hahn gave more careful analysis to his roster in the minors and on the big league roster, he might have determined he didn't need another first baseman, since he drafted Sheets with a #2 pick a few years earlier and he also had one of the best 1B in baseball with Jose Abreu. Maybe he could have used that #3 overall first round pick more wisely for another SP or position player he needed more.

Edited by The Kids Can Play
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On 9/29/2022 at 12:10 PM, Balta1701 said:

No.

There are only a few guys with actual trade value after this season - mostly Cease and Vaughn. Although Vaughn could be traded, there's no real pressure to trade Cease with 3 years left of control of him. He's the only one on this list I could actually see moving. 

Everyone else could conceivably be worth more at the deadline next year or next offseason, or potentially much easier to discard next offseason. They'll go with the same core and hope for better results. 

Kopech should still have very good trade value, almost in the 'wont get what he's worth' category Sale was in the year before he was traded

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5 hours ago, soxfaninfl said:

TA, Robert, and Eloy - keep. This has to be the core to build around come hell or high water. What choice does this team really have?

Abreu is tough. I understand the argument on both sides but also think we are overvaluing AV right now and I think other teams will look at him the same way. He’s a 6’ tall 1B that is a liability elsewhere except DH. Tough sell unless you package him in a trade.

Pitchers - keep Cease, Kopech, and maybe Lopez. I would like to see Hendricks back because he brings something severely lacking in this team, namely passion and excitement (sometimes too exciting but, oh well).

The rest? Some will have to come back but I would view all expendable. Doubt we see many takers.

As for injuries? Heard the same argument about Rodon last year and, well, yeah…

 

I agree with most of your moves but since you might not get a lot or enough back for Vaughn, you are better off making him the full time first baseman and see where his celling and potential is. I think his hitting will improve without the pressure of playing the corner outfield positions. Vaughn will also improve and become a solid fielding 1B with more games and practice at it. Don't forget Abreu was a bad defensive 1B initially until he worked at it. 

Plus Jose power numbers are dropping other than his BA. To invest more money in an aging and less productive power hitting 36 old...is money we could use more efficiently on another SP, right fielder or 2b.

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5 hours ago, soxfaninfl said:

TA, Robert, and Eloy - keep. This has to be the core to build around come hell or high water. What choice does this team really have?

Abreu is tough. I understand the argument on both sides but also think we are overvaluing AV right now and I think other teams will look at him the same way. He’s a 6’ tall 1B that is a liability elsewhere except DH. Tough sell unless you package him in a trade.

Pitchers - keep Cease, Kopech, and maybe Lopez. I would like to see Hendricks back because he brings something severely lacking in this team, namely passion and excitement (sometimes too exciting but, oh well).

The rest? Some will have to come back but I would view all expendable. Doubt we see many takers.

As for injuries? Heard the same argument about Rodon last year and, well, yeah…

 

Vaughn seems closer to 5'10 1/2"

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15 minutes ago, The Kids Can Play said:

I agree with most of your moves but since you might not get a lot or enough back for Vaughn, you are better off making him the full time first baseman and see where his celling and potential is. I think his hitting will improve without the pressure of playing the corner outfield positions. Vaughn will also improve and become a solid fielding 1B with more games and practice at it. Don't forget Abreu was a bad defensive 1B initially until he worked at it. 

Plus Jose power numbers are dropping other than his BA. To invest more money in an aging and less productive power hitting 36 old...is money we could use more efficiently on another SP, right fielder or 2b.

Keep trading or letting our twenty something's go...Rodon, Madrigal, Vaughn, we are simply doomed to repeat 2011-2016, especially with any coming payroll restrictions.

Look no further than the Guardians' roster.  TA would actually be the grizzled veteran over there, along with Ramirez and Bieber.

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5 hours ago, Highland said:

Cease and Robert are the only untouchables. I'd consider any other offers, but I still don't think there is a short-term solution to the White Sox. At least get a right-fielder and go from there.

I agree on Cease and Robert, Trading Cease ever down the road could be a disaster just like the Cubs made not signing Greg Maddux and letting him go as a free agent to the Braves.

The only other player I would not move is Eloy. He probably won't bring back enough in a trade value so let's keep him and see if he can reach that huge upside potential. We leaned something valuable via Cairo and not TLR that by playing Eloy at DH only, he has a significantly better chance of staying healthy and maybe hitting those 40-50 home runs people think he can produce in time. I think the only other thing the Sox need to do with Eloy is get him in better shape by losing some weight and get more flexible through yoga and proper stretching to avoid hammy pulls running the bases. 

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18 minutes ago, joejoesox said:

Kopech should still have very good trade value, almost in the 'wont get what he's worth' category Sale was in the year before he was traded

Kopech does not have nearly the trade value Sale had when he was 3 years away from FA. He wasn't bad this year, but he still had some injury issues and some games where his velocity dipped. He would bring something back in return, but it doesn't seem like a smart move for the White Sox unless they've totally given up on him. He certainly will not bring back two top 25 prospects, he wouldn't even return 1 top 100 prospect most likely right now. His upside next year is throwing 160 innings with an ERA somewhere in the low 3's, maybe better - a Dylan Cease type jump. If he did that, he'd become vastly more valuable. His downside is getting hurt again and maybe his value dips a little.

I don't see any reason why the White Sox should move him. If he does take a leap and the White Sox are in the race, he's a valuable contributor. If he takes a leap forward and the Sox fall out of the race, he will have massively higher trade value. If he doesn't take a leap forward, then he's not expensive (arb-1 this year), but his trade value won't go down all that much and you can try again with a rebuilding team in 2024 - this is the "Rodon" path. Finally, the White Sox have zero starting pitching depth right now, so trading him and having to replace him doesn't in any way make the White Sox better in the short term. 

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