Is Now the Time to Trade Gio?

[hogan873]

With the likelihood of Giolito being a Sox beyond 2023 being slim, I say look for a trade partner.  Even with his down year this past season, he has plenty of value.

[Balta1701]

5 minutes ago, SoxBlanco said:

Problem with that is if Giolito has a solid first half, we aren't going to want to trade him for two reasons:

1. We will likely be in the hunt for the division.

2. We can't simply sign a free agent to round out the rotation like we can now.

Isn't "being in the hunt for the division" part of the point? So why are we downgrading the starting rotation? 

[4uckOffCommieScum]

If they do they better have the bird to replace him in hand first. Seen the sox too many times forced to pick from the scrap heap after any desirable option disappears

[4uckOffCommieScum]

Manaea was worse than Gio last year with none of the upside.

[SoCalChiSox]

3 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

Isn't "being in the hunt for the division" part of the point? So why are we downgrading the starting rotation? 

Because if you can get a decent cost controlled position player for multiple seasons, the benefit likely exceeds the cost of losing 1 year of Giolito. 

 

[SoxBlanco]

4 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

Isn't "being in the hunt for the division" part of the point? So why are we downgrading the starting rotation? 

You make the trade if you don't think you are downgrading the rotation. It's not crazy to think someone like Manaea pitches better than Giolito next year.

[TheFutureIsNear]

31 minutes ago, bmags said:

Well, if you aren't talking about this as a costcutting measure, the reason you would trade Gio is it is clear you will not re-sign him. He has been the rare sox to enter FA, and the other was Rodon, and Rodon is gone (after the detour).

So you could also just say "we are going to trade Giolito away because we won't re-sign him, get value back, and sign a different pitcher we can get for the next 3-4 years".

If you are just completely capped, you probably aren't trading Giolito it's true.

In theory what you are saying makes perfect sense…I just have a very hard time imagining a world where the Sox are competent in free agency and are going to sign a quality SP for $50+M.

[bmags]

Just now, TheFutureIsNear said:

In theory what you are saying makes perfect sense…I just have a very hard time imagining a world where the Sox are competent in free agency and are going to sign a quality SP for $50+M.

I agree. But other franchises have done this "we're at an impasse, lets get what we can now and just sign someone else for control". 

I would not mind sox doing this because then we have to worry that they'll even put out a QO to get a 2nd rounder.

[Balta1701]

5 minutes ago, SoxBlanco said:

You make the trade if you don't think you are downgrading the rotation. It's not crazy to think someone like Manaea pitches better than Giolito next year.

If teams believed that, then wouldn't Manaea get substantially more than Giolito in free agency? 

[tray]

Gio lost velocity and started hanging his high change-up at times. However, he is an extremely smart player and a guy who has dedicated himself to getting into condition, so it is likely he returns to his earlier level of excellence on the mound.  Si I would tend to want Gio back, but not player is un-tradeabl for the right return.

Moncada and Vaughn are players that, if traded, might be less of a blow to the offense.  Burger could hold down third base until a better option is available. AV's defense at first base is limited by his height/reach and he has not been a big home run threat.  Gavin Sheets is a LH hitter that can hold down first base and his hitting has improved.   So, given the right return, launch Moncada to an East coast team (Yankees?) and Vaughn to a West Coast team (Dodgers?).

[Balta1701]

2 minutes ago, tray said:

Gio lost velocity and started hanging his high change-up at times. However, he is an extremely smart player and a guy who has dedicated himself to getting into condition, so it is likely he returns to his earlier level of excellence on the mound.  Si I would tend to want Gio back, but not player is un-tradeabl for the right return.

Moncada and Vaughn are players that, if traded, might be less of a blow to the offense.  Burger could hold down third base until a better option is available. AV's defense at first base is limited by his height/reach and he has not been a big home run threat.  Gavin Sheets is a LH hitter that can hold down first base and his hitting has improved.   So, given the right return, launch Moncada to an East coast team (Yankees?) and Vaughn to a West Coast team (Dodgers?).

Jake Burger holding down 3b is like Andrew Vaughn holding down RF last year. 

[4uckOffCommieScum]

Burger and Sheets aren’t the kind of players you open starting jobs for. Both would be massive downgrades on defense, at the least, from Moncada and Vaughn. Neither have the upside on offense either. If they were competent with the glove, maybe. Sheets is an absolute hack and Burger nowhere near Moncada

Edited December 2, 2022 by FourEyesShottenhoffer
Wrong guy

[Jack Parkman]

Moncada is overpaid, but he's GG caliber at 3B and the Sox need all of the plus defenders they can get. 

[Chimpton]

10 minutes ago, tray said:

Gio lost velocity and started hanging his high change-up at times. However, he is an extremely smart player and a guy who has dedicated himself to getting into condition, so it is likely he returns to his earlier level of excellence on the mound.  Si I would tend to want Gio back, but not player is un-tradeabl for the right return.

Moncada and Vaughn are players that, if traded, might be less of a blow to the offense.  Burger could hold down third base until a better option is available. AV's defense at first base is limited by his height/reach and he has not been a big home run threat.  Gavin Sheets is a LH hitter that can hold down first base and his hitting has improved.   So, given the right return, launch Moncada to an East coast team (Yankees?) and Vaughn to a West Coast team (Dodgers?).

Do you seriously think an infield with Burger and Sheets as regular starters would help the Sox compete in 2023 more than Moncada and Vaughan? 

[JoeCredeYes]

Feels like the only upside in trading him now is if his arm falls off, I'd rather wait and hope he returns to form, then trade him at the TDL if they're out of it,  or extend the QO in the off-season if they're good enough to make a run this year. 

[southsider2k5]

14 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

Jake Burger holding down 3b is like Andrew Vaughn holding down RF last year. 

It's like Tony LaRussa holding down the dugout.

[tray]

5 minutes ago, Chimpton said:

Do you seriously think an infield with Burger and Sheets as regular starters would help the Sox compete in 2023 more than Moncada and Vaughan? 

Are you assuming the Sox get nothing in return for these players ?

[ChiSox59]

No. The same reason Phil gives to trade him is the same reason you shouldn’t. 

[NCsoxfan]

Today ESPN proposing Giolito to TB for Brandon Lowe (sorry if this is posted elsewhere)

[Chimpton]

1 minute ago, tray said:

Are you assuming the Sox get nothing in return for these players ?

No but you said Burger and Sheets could hold down 3b and 1b, implying they would be your starters in those positions. Trading Moncada and/or Vaughan to improve other areas of the team but weakening 1b and 3b doesn't make any real sense.

[JoeCredeYes]

3 minutes ago, NCsoxfan said:

Today ESPN proposing Giolito to TB for Brandon Lowe (sorry if this is posted elsewhere)

First I've seen of it, with all the trade discussion from Hahn and Gio becoming a player rep, def seems like a fair amount of smoke around moving him. 

[Balta1701]

5 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said:

Moncada is overpaid, but he's GG caliber at 3B and the Sox need all of the plus defenders they can get. 

I'd be willing to consider these ideas for trading people to clear salary if the White Sox had literally anyone worthy of being a big league player to back them up. Same thing with Giolito.

You might still even be able to dump a large portion of Moncada's contract, if you wanted. But there's no good reason to do that and then try to trade or sign a FA to fill this spot, that doesn't make you better and it uses up the clearly limited funds we have. 

[southsider2k5]

Just now, ChiSox59 said:

No. The same reason Phil gives to trade him is the same reason you shouldn’t. 

Yeah, that's the problem.  I mean absolutely has trade value, but we have nothing in place to replace him with.  Maybe you fill say the OF hole, but that just opens up a hole in the SP.  Unless you feel that the combination of spending is better spent with the new player + the signee, versus Gio and the free agent market, you still have a hole.  Maybe one set of positions is cheaper on the trade market vs the free agent market so you do the deal so that you come out ahead on the combination of the moves.

[EloyJenkins]

what is the best corner outfielder Gio would net with at least 2 years of control? That makes sense...as well as signing a lefty LF if they can't find a good OF match and go prospects and a 2nd base starter instead. But 2nd base trade would need to be really good to make it worth it. 

Edited December 2, 2022 by EloyJenkins

[Balta1701]

6 minutes ago, NCsoxfan said:

Today ESPN proposing Giolito to TB for Brandon Lowe (sorry if this is posted elsewhere)

So this fills the 2b hole and cuts $5 million off the payroll, but:

1. We're assuming the Rays are dumb enough to give this guy up? What do they know that we don't about his health where they would trade this guy for a pitcher under control for 1 year?

2. Let's say we have $20 million to spend right now, that leaves the payroll just about level compared to last year. After that trade, you have $25 million to spend, but you still need 2 OFs and now you need a starting pitcher, and this thread exists because "Starters are costing more than we thought."