This team is going to lose 90 plus games...

[Lip Man 1]

9 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

But this year is a FAR tougher schedule.

When you can't beat up on the Tigers, especially, for 19 games.

I think 90 losses is a stretch, but definitely feels like 74-88 is quite possible...especially if any of the starting pitchers were to go down for an extended time.

90 losses, 88 losses, 87 losses. It's all the same crap...another losing season, another year urinated away in a supposed "window of contention."

If you can't at the very least win more games than you lose the number of losses really is irrelevant (save for draft position) 

[caulfield12]

9 minutes ago, Lip Man 1 said:

90 losses, 88 losses, 87 losses. It's all the same crap...another losing season, another year urinated away in a supposed "window of contention."

If you can't at the very least win more games than you lose the number of losses really is irrelevant (save for draft position) 

And they're far too talented and payroll heavy to bottom out entirely and get another Top 5-7 draft pick...ofc, we only have Rodon (no QO)/Madrigal (Cubbie)/Vaughn to show for those three years of suffering.

 

It's really crazy if you look at all the castoffs on the Rays' roster and only Franco and Arozarena being exceptionally talented offensive players.

But that pitching/draft/development pipeline...my god.

Waves and waves and waves of pitching.   That's after Brent Honeywell, Brendan McKay and Matthew Liberatore all struggled as high draft picks.  And Glasnow was out for almost all of last season.

But they made the smart move with Eflin (Phillies) and then Springs has been simply amazing looking at where he came from.  McClanahan's a total stud.  Rasmussen, Fairbanks and that deep bullpen of arms.

 

https://www.thebaseballcube.com/content/player/169358/tranx/

Jeffrey Springs' career transaction list....circuitous

 

https://www.thebaseballcube.com/content/player/188180/tranx/

Drew Rasmussen was signed for only $135,000 in the 6th round by the Brewers coming off TJ surgery at Oregon State

 

 

Just two prime examples.

Edited April 13, 2023 by caulfield12

[ShoeLessRob]

Worse record than last year… didn’t think it was possible, but holy hell. Organization is a dumpster fire and I DO NOT want Hahn and Co. to be given the chance to tear it all down again, if that ends up happening I’ll probably officially stop calling myself a “White Sox” fan. 

[Johno]

6 hours ago, Johno said:

I’m not g”impressed with our new manager!!!   We are looking at a very long season.   Total BS for an organization that’s supposed to be in there “championship years”!!!

 

[FloydBannister1983]

1 hour ago, Lip Man 1 said:

90 losses, 88 losses, 87 losses. It's all the same crap...another losing season, another year urinated away in a supposed "window of contention."

If you can't at the very least win more games than you lose the number of losses really is irrelevant (save for draft position) 

There is no window of contention if you are basically out of it two weeks into the season after losing a couple of guys who should have been expected to get injured.

[4uckOffCommieScum]

As bad as things went last year, they still got 132 starts from the starting five. If that didn’t happen, could have easily lost 90+. The idea that everything that could go wrong did go wrong is false

[caulfield12]

1 hour ago, FourEyesShottenhoffer said:

As bad as things went last year, they still got 132 starts from the starting five. If that didn’t happen, could have easily lost 90+. The idea that everything that could go wrong did go wrong is false

Twins actually lost more starter level time to injury... 

[kitekrazy]

8 hours ago, chitownsportsfan said:

There's a very good chance that Giolito, Anderson and Hendricks are gone by the deadline with the team already 10 under .500. Remove 4-6 WAR and you can see 72-90 pretty easily. 82 was the projection by most systems. We've already gone 5-8.

What sounds more likely, we play 21 over from this point out to go 90-72, or we are 15 under rest of the way for 72-90? I sure know which one I'd bet on given even odds.

That's a scary thought since the Sox are bad at trades.  They can be the A's or the Pirates.  I wonder how many other owners can accomplish that in a large market.

[lostfan]

I have been on Soxtalk on and off since 2008 and *checks own profile* almost 20k posts, and this is an annual topic of discussion every single year. Granted, the team does in fact end up being mediocre or is trash more often than it's not, but still. Just part of being a Sox fan, I guess

[greg775]

3 hours ago, ShoeLessRob said:

Worse record than last year… didn’t think it was possible, but holy hell. Organization is a dumpster fire and I DO NOT want Hahn and Co. to be given the chance to tear it all down again, if that ends up happening I’ll probably officially stop calling myself a “White Sox” fan. 

I think Sox are gonna be down a long long time. Five years more of this and team will be totally irrelevant I would think. Mabe Colas and Robert will lead a rebirth. When a team has so many overall weaknesses (bullpen, defense, no ability to lift and pull) it makes it hard to see Sox doing anything for years to come. ... I think given a choice I'd rather have our current team have stellar defense and bullpen than what we have now with no defense and no pen. 

I wonder if anybody on this board is thoroughly OK with Sox baseball right now. I mean it could be worse. At least Chicago still has 2 teams and there's baseball on the south side. San Antonio and Portland would love to have a team.

I do concede there's a chance that when the weather gets warm the Sox hitters could erupt for 4-5 weeks at a time and we could win a lotta games at home with hitting alone.

Edited April 13, 2023 by greg775

[Tomas]

Looks like yet another lost season.  Same problems with no solutions.

[ChiSox59]

2 hours ago, Tomas said:

Looks like yet another lost season.  Same problems with no solutions.

 

10 hours ago, FloydBannister1983 said:

There is no window of contention if you are basically out of it two weeks into the season after losing a couple of guys who should have been expected to get injured.

Lol the Sox are 3.5 GB. It’s two weeks of games. They’ll probably be 2 GB after the Twins get their ass kicked in NY this weekend like they always do. It’s been a terrible start, but to insinuate this season is anything close to a lost season at this point is an absolute joke. 
 

8 hours ago, lostfan said:

I have been on Soxtalk on and off since 2008 and *checks own profile* almost 20k posts, and this is an annual topic of discussion every single year. Granted, the team does in fact end up being mediocre or is trash more often than it's not, but still. Just part of being a Sox fan, I guess

Yep. Most Sox fans always looking for the nearest bridge. The team has given us plenty of reasons to be skeptical over the last couple years, but each season is its own animal. Just because 2022 was dumpster fire under TLR and the first 13 games look very similar in some ways, does not mean the next 149 games will be. The next couple weeks are going to be tough, but the May and June schedule are pretty soft. Do need the Sox to be healthy during that stretch. 

10 hours ago, FourEyesShottenhoffer said:

As bad as things went last year, they still got 132 starts from the starting five. If that didn’t happen, could have easily lost 90+. The idea that everything that could go wrong did go wrong is false

Including Johnny Cueto, a minor league signing that was not even on the OD roster and no one expected anything from in that number is somewhat disingenuous. He was definitely a positive in 22, but plenty went wrong last season. If Yoan, TA, Eloy and Robert collectively miss around half the season again, I don’t like the Sox chances of being much more than a .500 squad. I don’t think anyone else would feel differently. Poor start on the injury front so far, but everything is fairly minor and I’ll still take the over on GP for that group compared to 2022.   Eloy and Yoan should both be back tomorrow, if not, shortly thereafter. 

Edited April 13, 2023 by ChiSox59

[caulfield12]

https://www.teamrankings.com/mlb/stat/stolen-bases-per-game

CLE and Baltimore lead the majors in. stolen bases...Grandal and Zava will be constantly put to the test. 

Point 2, they need to start winning consistently at home.   Period.   Even if the majority of fans are still indifferent, apathetic, disengaged. 

[LittleHurtCG]

11 hours ago, FourEyesShottenhoffer said:

As bad as things went last year, they still got 132 starts from the starting five. If that didn’t happen, could have easily lost 90+. The idea that everything that could go wrong did go wrong is false

Excellent point. Sox pitching experienced very few injuries last year which is a rarity and not likely to repeat. It's been repeated ad nauseum at this point, but the lack of depth in the minors is absolutely mind boggling. This team pissed away 3.5 seasons to tank for high draft picks and the farm is still pretty much a wasteland. 

[joejoesox]

15 hours ago, greg775 said:

As much as I hate modern baseball, the Sox better start lifting and pulling in these home games. They got bodies to do it. The physical physique of guys would suggest a ton of HRs at GRate Field.

expecting an entirely new offensive approach to what they had ingrained into them the last 2 years with Menechino is a fools errand, they're a singles/doubles hitting lineup. at least Robert seems to have his power stroke. 

[The Kids Can Play]

15 hours ago, caulfield12 said:

And they're far too talented and payroll heavy to bottom out entirely and get another Top 5-7 draft pick...ofc, we only have Rodon (no QO)/Madrigal (Cubbie)/Vaughn to show for those three years of suffering.

 

It's really crazy if you look at all the castoffs on the Rays' roster and only Franco and Arozarena being exceptionally talented offensive players.

But that pitching/draft/development pipeline...my god.

Waves and waves and waves of pitching.   That's after Brent Honeywell, Brendan McKay and Matthew Liberatore all struggled as high draft picks.  And Glasnow was out for almost all of last season.

But they made the smart move with Eflin (Phillies) and then Springs has been simply amazing looking at where he came from.  McClanahan's a total stud.  Rasmussen, Fairbanks and that deep bullpen of arms.

 

https://www.thebaseballcube.com/content/player/169358/tranx/

Jeffrey Springs' career transaction list....circuitous

 

https://www.thebaseballcube.com/content/player/188180/tranx/

Drew Rasmussen was signed for only $135,000 in the 6th round by the Brewers coming off TJ surgery at Oregon State

 

 

Just two prime examples.

Great example from a great organization.

As it's been said numerous times here, the Tampa Bay Rays always pull off great trades, or score big through their draft every year. They have been doing this since 2008. They are the poster child and absolute blueprint (bar none), for how to build a successful and consistent winning major league organization, with one of the smallest payrolls every year for the last 16 years. 

They are off to their best start ever at 12-0 and one win short of the all-time best start since 1900. Of course once again, they are doing it with a 28th ranked payroll. However they still kill it in the draft and through proper development of their pitchers and position players in the minors to maintain the #6 ranked farm system.

Many years ago, the Dodgers wanted this TB knowledge so they recruited away Andrew Friedman from TB back in 2015, but the Rays still haven't missed a beat and the Rays Braintrust still exists there. 

Since 2008, best records for MLB teams:

1. Dodgers   - 1365-946

2. Yankees    - 1345-995

3. Cardinals  - 1294-1044

4. Rays           - 1279 - 1062

21. White Sox - 1125-1216

Sadly, with all that success over the years, the Rays attendance has always been near the bottom the league. Currently they are averaging 16,769 in 7 home games in 2023 which is 27th. I have a brother who has lived there for 20 years and I am fully aware of why logistically the Rays have poor attendance numbers. However it's still shameful and sad the Tampa fans don't appreciate what they've had for so many years. Yet we as the die-hard Sox fans would absolutely die to have the Rays be our home team. 

I am sick and tired of this yearly mediocrity from the POS owner and the tons of false promises from his loser GM Rick Hahn and his pathetic front office.

Please Jerry sell the god damn team once and for all or fire your horrific GM Rick Hahn and his FO morons and go steal some smart executive away from the Rays.

 

 

 

 

[LittleHurtCG]

11 minutes ago, The Kids Can Play said:

Great example from a great organization.

As it's been said numerous times here, the Tampa Bay Rays always pull off great trades, or score big through their draft every year. They have been doing this since 2008. They are the poster child and absolute blueprint (bar none), for how to build a successful and consistent winning major league organization, with one of the smallest payrolls every year for the last 16 years. 

They are off to their best start ever at 12-0 and one win short of the all-time best start since 1900. Of course once again, they are doing it with a 28th ranked payroll. However they still kill it in the draft and through proper development of their pitchers and position players in the minors to maintain the #6 ranked farm system.

Many years ago, the Dodgers wanted this TB knowledge so they recruited away Andrew Friedman from TB back in 2015, but the Rays still haven't missed a beat and the Rays Braintrust still exists there. 

Since 2008, best records for MLB teams:

1. Dodgers   - 1365-946

2. Yankees    - 1345-995

3. Cardinals  - 1294-1044

4. Rays           - 1279 - 1062

21. White Sox - 1125-1216

Sadly, with all that success over the years, the Rays attendance has always been near the bottom the league. Currently they are averaging 16,769 in 7 home games in 2023 which is 27th. I have a brother who has lived there for 20 years and I am fully aware of why logistically the Rays have poor attendance numbers. However it's still shameful and sad the Tampa fans don't appreciate what they've had for so many years. Yet we as the die-hard Sox fans would absolutely die to have the Rays be our home team. 

I am sick and tired of this yearly mediocrity from the POS owner and the tons of false promises from his loser GM Rick Hahn and his pathetic front office.

Please Jerry sell the god damn team once and for all or fire your horrific GM Rick Hahn and his FO morons and go steal some smart executive away from the Rays.

 

 

 

 

Is this the year that Tampa Bay finally breaks through and wins a World Series? I would rather go 12 and 0 in October over April every time. 

[The Kids Can Play]

Just now, LittleHurtCG said:

Is this the year that Tampa Bay finally breaks through and wins a World Series? I would rather go 12 and 0 in October over April every time. 

That's a great question and maybe this year will be their year, but they have been in two World Series since 2008, which two more than the Sox.  

The manner and success in the way TB runs their club, it's just a matter of time until they do win one. 

I truly believe if the Rays were owned by some wealthy billionaire like the Mets Cohen or Yankees, where they could spend real money in FA, besides their awesome drafting and farm system success, I do believe the Rays would have won a WS by now.

[Quin]

8 minutes ago, The Kids Can Play said:

That's a great question and maybe this year will be their year, but they have been in two World Series since 2008, which two more than the Sox.  

The manner and success in the way TB runs their club, it's just a matter of time until they do win one. 

I truly believe if the Rays were owned by some wealthy billionaire like the Mets Cohen or Yankees, where they could spend real money in FA, besides their awesome drafting and farm system success, I do believe the Rays would have won a WS by now.

You need look no further than the Dodgers.

[The Kids Can Play]

35 minutes ago, Quin said:

You need look no further than the Dodgers.

That is 100 percent correct! Hence why the Dodgers went and recruited Andrew Friedman. They knew they had the money to spend and compete with anyone, they just needed a sharp GM to be their new president and build a farm system and draft develop prospects well, along with having as much money as he needed to spend on FA's

[The Mighty Mite]

2 hours ago, The Kids Can Play said:

Great example from a great organization.

As it's been said numerous times here, the Tampa Bay Rays always pull off great trades, or score big through their draft every year. They have been doing this since 2008. They are the poster child and absolute blueprint (bar none), for how to build a successful and consistent winning major league organization, with one of the smallest payrolls every year for the last 16 years. 

They are off to their best start ever at 12-0 and one win short of the all-time best start since 1900. Of course once again, they are doing it with a 28th ranked payroll. However they still kill it in the draft and through proper development of their pitchers and position players in the minors to maintain the #6 ranked farm system.

Many years ago, the Dodgers wanted this TB knowledge so they recruited away Andrew Friedman from TB back in 2015, but the Rays still haven't missed a beat and the Rays Braintrust still exists there. 

Since 2008, best records for MLB teams:

1. Dodgers   - 1365-946

2. Yankees    - 1345-995

3. Cardinals  - 1294-1044

4. Rays           - 1279 - 1062

21. White Sox - 1125-1216

Sadly, with all that success over the years, the Rays attendance has always been near the bottom the league. Currently they are averaging 16,769 in 7 home games in 2023 which is 27th. I have a brother who has lived there for 20 years and I am fully aware of why logistically the Rays have poor attendance numbers. However it's still shameful and sad the Tampa fans don't appreciate what they've had for so many years. Yet we as the die-hard Sox fans would absolutely die to have the Rays be our home team. 

I am sick and tired of this yearly mediocrity from the POS owner and the tons of false promises from his loser GM Rick Hahn and his pathetic front office.

Please Jerry sell the god damn team once and for all or fire your horrific GM Rick Hahn and his FO morons and go steal some smart executive away from the Rays.

 

 

 

 

Made it 13 in a row today, the Ray's are my second favorite team and everything you said is right on the money. I have a hunch the fans are going to support this team, over 21,000 showed up today at the Trop which in years past was unheard of especially on a Thursday afternoon, unlike years past it was mostly Ray's fans on hand today instead half of the crowd being Red Sox fans. 

Edited April 13, 2023 by The Mighty Mite

[joejoesox]

3 hours ago, The Kids Can Play said:

Since 2008, best records for MLB teams:

1. Dodgers   - 1365-946

2. Yankees    - 1345-995

3. Cardinals  - 1294-1044

4. Rays           - 1279 - 1062

21. White Sox - 1125-1216

holy f***, lol. gonna need more than billboards and funny signs to fix this. cancelling season tix and not going to games is a start 

[4uckOffCommieScum]

Don’t the Rays have very high TV ratings though? Their attendance doesn’t matter much if they are able to maintain a competitive organization, which they clearly have done.

[Lip Man 1]

3 minutes ago, joejoesox said:

holy f***, lol. gonna need more than billboards and funny signs to fix this. cancelling season tix and not going to games is a start 

Well since the start of the 2007 season the Sox have had only five winning seasons out of 16 years so those numbers make sense.

[Lip Man 1]

3 hours ago, The Kids Can Play said:

Great example from a great organization.

As it's been said numerous times here, the Tampa Bay Rays always pull off great trades, or score big through their draft every year. They have been doing this since 2008. They are the poster child and absolute blueprint (bar none), for how to build a successful and consistent winning major league organization, with one of the smallest payrolls every year for the last 16 years. 

They are off to their best start ever at 12-0 and one win short of the all-time best start since 1900. Of course once again, they are doing it with a 28th ranked payroll. However they still kill it in the draft and through proper development of their pitchers and position players in the minors to maintain the #6 ranked farm system.

Many years ago, the Dodgers wanted this TB knowledge so they recruited away Andrew Friedman from TB back in 2015, but the Rays still haven't missed a beat and the Rays Braintrust still exists there. 

Since 2008, best records for MLB teams:

1. Dodgers   - 1365-946

2. Yankees    - 1345-995

3. Cardinals  - 1294-1044

4. Rays           - 1279 - 1062

21. White Sox - 1125-1216

Sadly, with all that success over the years, the Rays attendance has always been near the bottom the league. Currently they are averaging 16,769 in 7 home games in 2023 which is 27th. I have a brother who has lived there for 20 years and I am fully aware of why logistically the Rays have poor attendance numbers. However it's still shameful and sad the Tampa fans don't appreciate what they've had for so many years. Yet we as the die-hard Sox fans would absolutely die to have the Rays be our home team. 

I am sick and tired of this yearly mediocrity from the POS owner and the tons of false promises from his loser GM Rick Hahn and his pathetic front office.

Please Jerry sell the god damn team once and for all or fire your horrific GM Rick Hahn and his FO morons and go steal some smart executive away from the Rays.

 

 

 

 

I wish I could say this is a possibility but literally everything I've been told by numerous folks who would know, say this is a pipedream. As long as JR is alive he's not selling and he is loath to fire anybody (as long as they are loyal and the Sox are making money).