The Chris Getz Era

[bmags]

I've had multiple posts like this. And ultimately it doesn't matter. I do think if you gave each member of the white sox front office a shot to run the team for the next 5 years, the ceiling for all of them is lower than if you did this for literally any other front office. However, nobody is the same. And if you gave these people JR's ingredients I think some would make better recipes.

But why Hahn is worse than KW:

- The CBAs made building the farm system easier for Hahn. He was on an equal playing fields with the draft budgets vs "suggested slots" KW was hampered by. And I would argue same with INTL. JR can handle spending the full allotments when there is a cap. You can put it as a line item.

- The White Sox under KW had two true, real above average or league leading talents compared to others: Pitcher/Player health and Major League scouting. They really did find veterans who had stuff left in the tank and get them for a discount. 

Both of these things evaporated under Hahn. There is truly no component of building a team that the white sox have an advantage on compared to other organizations.

For KW, he was hampered by JRs rules against going over suggested slot,and there was no hard cap. Given that, it made sense that he pulled from the draft budget and into the Major League budget.

Now...overseeing someone performing a felony as your INTL head scout. That's worse than Hahn.

Now for Hahn what became harder? The increased velocity and likely decrease of steroid use dried up that second contract veteran in FA. By KWs end that was already dwindling. But Hahn never stopped thinking he was getting bargains paying what he thought was 50% for a proven vet rather than 100% for a younger player. Except the vets kept putting up only 10% the production. 

- Self scouting - KW just seemed much, much better at knowing which of the guys from the minors were ready, who was dispensible, who had more. Hahn absolutely sucks at this.

[zisk]

21 minutes ago, Joshua Strong said:

I agree with this. Those Hostetler drafts really set the team back, I can’t say that enough. 
 

2015: Carson Fulmer

2016: Zack Collins/Zack Burdi

2017: Jake Burger

2018: Nick Madrigal

2019: Andrew Vaughn

Vaughn is the only regular player of that group but I still had reservations about that pick. I’d like to see more power but he’s panning out so far considering his mismanagement.

The rebuild failed with that run of horrible draft picks. 

probably burger was the best pick. lower spot in draft than vaughn. no one can predict injury. 

[bmags]

2 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

Shirley hasn't had quite enough time but at least he's a legit outsider and thus much more likely to be honest/objective.

has shown creativity in draft budgets, belief in traits. Still, I think his strategy for 2020/21 was at odds with the rest of the team's. But that's Hahn's fault imo.

[bmags]

4 minutes ago, zisk said:

probably burger was the best pick. lower spot in draft than vaughn. no one can predict injury. 

Yeah, that 2017 draft in general was terrible. But what did the white sox in was the 2016 draft was what killed us. It was the second best of the decade, we had 3 prime picks, and got absolute trash. The Dodgers meanwhile cemented their catapaulting over the NL west in that draft.

[caulfield12]

https://theathletic.com/4089120/2023/01/14/white-sox-san-mondry-cohen-arbitration-deals/

 

Rod Larson was an Asst. GM with the Nationals before coming over to the Sox in the offseason... 

[caulfield12]

• Manager, Player Development Latin America Operations: Louis Silverio
• https://www.milb.com/player/louis-silverio-650589

 

who made this call? 

KW or Hahn? 

Please tell me he's not in any way related to Juan Silverio of the Dave Wilder Scandal!!! 

Edited April 20, 2023 by caulfield12

[caulfield12]

 “Scouts like Tatis Jr.’s swing, his strong arm and his fluid actions on defense. He’s shown decent arm strength and raw power to his pull side. Tatis Jr.’s knack for barreling up balls and his repeatable swing have also impressed evaluators.”  Jeff Buchanan of FutureSox wrote, “Tatis clearly doesn’t have the same upside as [White Sox top 2015 international signing] Franklin Reyes, but his well-rounded skillset, high baseball IQ and professional mentality mean he likely comes with less risk than Reyes and is a better bet to maximize his potential as a possible everyday player.” 

https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2020/04/how-did-the-white-sox-trade-fernando-tatis-jr.html

[RibbieRubarb]

15 hours ago, Harold's Leg Lift said:

He's not a Harvard asshole who thinks he has all the answers so he has that going for him.

Whatever dude

[bmags]

Getz is one of the more approachable guys at sox fest. As a person I think he's great. But only Thome could handle JR while being able to recruit the best in the world to run the sox underneath him.

[The Kids Can Play]

13 hours ago, soxrwhite said:

If winning a championship is the true litmus test then Rays have ZERO championships and the Dodgers have the same as the white Sox (ONE) since 1988.

1. The Dodgers actually have two World Series championships since 1988 ('88 & '20) and not one. 

2. Tampa Bay was not a franchise until 1998, so not fair to lump them in since 1988 in the comparison. 

2. Although the ultimate goal is to win the World Series, that is not the only factor in finding a great GM from a consistent winning club. Tampa may not have won a WS yet, but they have been in two World Series since they cleaned out their front office in 2004 when they hired Andrew Friedman. Not to mention, they are one of the winningest clubs in baseball in the last 15 years. 

3. You don't have to only find a Pres & GM from TB or LAD. You could also find one from the other successful clubs out there since your 1988 reference.

NYY - 5 WS titles

BOS - 4 WS titles

SF - 3 WS titles

ATL - 2 WS titles 

ST.L - 2 WS titles

The point the poster was making is very simple and logical; we should want the next President and GM of the White Sox to come from winning club that knows how to win, scout, draft, trade and sign free agents, as well as the most important ability, which is to develop great talent in the minors. These are the massive flaws of the Sox FO losers. 

Keep in mind, having only won one WS title is a pretty big deal. They are not that easy to win. Hence why 11 teams since 1988 DO NOT have a WS title yet: TB, BAL, CLE, DET, TEX, SEA, NYM, MIL, PIT. SD and COL.

Again this is all what a logical and smart owner should do. Sadly we don't have that. Until Reinsdorf is no longer the owner, these sound "Best Practice" philosophies which are commonly followed by not only successful sports franchises, but also successful businesses, will probably not happen during Jerry's ownership until his death. Unfortunately for all the loyal die-hard Sox fans who spend money and time supporting this bad team...they will keep on being f*#ked and denied any consistent fun and winning. Thank you Jerry...may I have another!

[Quin]

1 hour ago, caulfield12 said:

 “Scouts like Tatis Jr.’s swing, his strong arm and his fluid actions on defense. He’s shown decent arm strength and raw power to his pull side. Tatis Jr.’s knack for barreling up balls and his repeatable swing have also impressed evaluators.”  Jeff Buchanan of FutureSox wrote, “Tatis clearly doesn’t have the same upside as [White Sox top 2015 international signing] Franklin Reyes, but his well-rounded skillset, high baseball IQ and professional mentality mean he likely comes with less risk than Reyes and is a better bet to maximize his potential as a possible everyday player.” 

https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2020/04/how-did-the-white-sox-trade-fernando-tatis-jr.html

Boy that's two strikes right there.

The less upside than Reyes, but also professional mentality.

[chitownsportsfan]

1 hour ago, bmags said:

Getz is one of the more approachable guys at sox fest. As a person I think he's great. But only Thome could handle JR while being able to recruit the best in the world to run the sox underneath him.

Curious as to why you have such believe in Thome, who from all outward appearances seems to just be another loyalty hire.

[Boopa1219]

2 hours ago, Harold's Leg Lift said:

The top of the draft was horrible but  what is also killing them now was the reluctance to draft HS players in the later rounds.  Those players would be in the high minors right now providing depth but instead they had to take a bunch of college seniors who can't play dead because they had to overpay those awful top selections.  That was the draft strategy of the three ring circus of Hahn/Haber/Hostetler and trying to blame the current awful system on Getz is beyond ridiculous. 

I've been very please with how Shirley is drafting. Regardless of a regime change, I hope he sticks around

[Harold's Leg Lift]

56 minutes ago, Joshua Strong said:

I've been very please with how Shirley is drafting. Regardless of a regime change, I hope he sticks around

Shirley is awesome.  He's a fantastic evaluator and has a clear vision of the type of players he wants to draft.  He along with several others in baseball ops will benefit greatly from having a boss who actually understands the baseball side of baseball which call me crazy is the most important side.  

[FloydBannister1983]

5 hours ago, Harold's Leg Lift said:

Are you really blaming him for all those years of awful Hostetler/Haber drafts?  He's bad at his job because he couldn't turn years of chicken s%*# $10,000 money savers so they could overpay bad college corners into chicken salad?  That's certainly a take.  

I’ll bite … if he can’t be blamed for that what has he done that he can take credit for that is so impressive?

[DirtySox]

Do we actually think a change is close to being made, or is this just wishcasting?

[ChiSoxTrojan]

17 hours ago, caulfield12 said:

Well, Jim Thome and Bo Jackson most definitely are not losers...

Remind me, how many World Series do they have between the two of them?

[ChiSox59]

3 hours ago, zisk said:

probably burger was the best pick. lower spot in draft than vaughn. no one can predict injury. 

AV has a 135 wRC+ so far in 2023.  While we'd all like to see more power, he's been pretty good at the plate.  

[ChiSoxTrojan]

15 hours ago, soxrwhite said:

If winning a championship is the true litmus test then Rays have ZERO championships and the Dodgers have the same as the white Sox (ONE) since 1988.

It's not the job of the GM to win championships, that's on the players and coaches. It's the job of the GM to put their team in position to win a championship. The Dodgers and Rays have been up there for most of the past decade.

[FloydBannister1983]

3 hours ago, zisk said:

probably burger was the best pick. lower spot in draft than vaughn. no one can predict injury. 

Maybe not the first injury but everyone should be predicting Jimenez and Robert and Moncada and Anderson to get hurt at some point every season.  I also suspect Kopech will get hurt this year.  And I am surprised Burger hasn’t been hurt recently.

[bmags]

1 hour ago, chitownsportsfan said:

Curious as to why you have such believe in Thome, who from all outward appearances seems to just be another loyalty hire.

Have you ever met Jim Thome?

[chitownsportsfan]

3 minutes ago, bmags said:

Have you ever met Jim Thome?

I mean, does he give a firm handshake? Did you look into his steely eyes and get a flutter?  The very fact that he's employed by the Sox and not a successful org is a strike against him. Nepotistic hires haven't worked going on three decades now.

[Harold's Leg Lift]

Thome is coaching his sons HS team right now.  I doubt he wants to give that up because they're probably a better team. 

[fathom]

14 minutes ago, Harold's Leg Lift said:

Thome is coaching his sons HS team right now.  I doubt he wants to give that up because they're probably a better team. 

Saw his Sparks team last year and they were awesome

[bmags]

29 minutes ago, chitownsportsfan said:

I mean, does he give a firm handshake? Did you look into his steely eyes and get a flutter?  The very fact that he's employed by the Sox and not a successful org is a strike against him. Nepotistic hires haven't worked going on three decades now.

The list was people within the sox org. And within the sox org, he'd be a good choice to handle JR and is humble enough to get people who can deliver beneath him.